First-time poster here! Thank you so much for this excellent and highly informative forum. It is a superb resource and I am glad I found it.

My question is: Were there different attitudes about retention in the 1980s? Back in 1987, after 1 year of 24/7 wear and 1 year of nightly wear, my orthodontist said I didn't need to wear a retainer at all. NO ONE said anything about "retention for life" to me at that time. If they had, I would have listened. I was very serious about my orthodontia.

The backstory: In the summer of 1987, my retainer was stolen (long story about a crazy roommate who lost her job and got kicked out of our place at the same time, and before she left she trashed the place and lo, my retainer was missing, which was her way of sticking it to me). I went to my ortho for a replacement. He looked at my teeth and said I didn't need one. I figured he must know what he was talking about so I didn't press the issue.

I think there may have been some other factors in play: This ortho complained A LOT throughout my treatment about "all the money" he'd "lost" on my case because it turned out to be longer and more complicated that he expected. (I guess the terms of the contract were not favourable to him.) The complaining itself was, I now realize, very rude and unprofessional. But back then, he was the authority figure and I was a kid, so. I wonder now if he said I didn't need another retainer because he didn't want to give me a replacement for free (and lose more money) and he assumed I would not pay for another (I would have if I'd known it was an option).

Fortunately, for the last 24 years my teeth have stayed quite straight and only in the last couple have I noticed some shifting (spacing and maybe a slight bucked-toothness). I'm setting up appointments with orthos to look into my options for correcting or at least stopping any further movement. At this stage the shifting is really only noticeable to someone who looks closely for flaws, which I do! And of course so will the new ortho. I might be able to get by just with a retainer for my teeth the way they are now.

So anyway, was retention more lax back in the 80s or was my orthodontist just a jerk, or both?

Thanks!

It does seem like he was unprofessional and a "jerk." I grew up in the 70s/80s and I begged my family dentist to refer me to an orthodontist but he said my teeth were "fine." For years I just lived and generally accepted my less than perfect smile. I don't think orthodontia was as widely accepted/used then as it is today. Today it seems as if every child I know has had braces. It really wasn't until my two children had braces and I saw the amazing results they had that I too wanted a nice, near perfect smile.

It took me 2 years to decide it was my turn. I have just had braces on for 1 week today (ceramic on top, metal on bottom). My projected treatment time is 12-14 months which I'm hoping is accurate. My daughter finished up her projected treatment 6 months early and my son was right on schedule with the same orthodonist I'm using. I have bottom crowding, upper spaces and an overbite. I opted to go with TAD's in 3-4 months rather than elastics as it's supposed to be more efficient in correcting my overbite.

I am so happy to find this incredible resource.

I'm kind of bummed about not getting more replies, but I'm excited about my two consultation appointments next week!

Wouldn't you know, the ortho right near my office will charge $50 for the consult, but the ortho further uptown charges nothing (and he's a pretty big deal, teaches at some very high-profile dental schools, conducts research, writes textbooks and articles - I'm afraid my case will be small-potatoes for him!). It will be very interesting to see what each has to say.

I have a niggling feeling that the culprit for recent tooth-movement, after 20 years of straightness, is my wisdom teeth. I'll bet they are finally coming down. It's been over 5 years since I last looked into it.

Report to follow!

It was extremely unprofessional of your previous ortho to have made those statements. Regarding your question, I think the current consensus is that most orthodontic patients will require long-term retention to prevent relapse. Exactly what that entails seems to vary between orthos, but I think most of us will be wearing retainers, at least occasionally, for life.

Kudos to you for getting treatment for your shifting teeth early on...I know first hand that it only gets worse over time. Best of luck with your consultations.

P.S. This forum seems to have a lot less activity than the main one so don't be discouraged.

In the mid 80's I had braces as a teen for about 3 years to correct an overbite and overjet (buck teeth). I wore braces, elastics and headgear (omg how I hated that contraption). Once they were off when I turned 17 I did the retainer at night for 2 years, after which point my ortho told me I didn't need it anymore either.

Well fast forward 20something years and they had shifted pretty much back to where they were when I got braces (not quite as bad but not far off). When I went to talk about getting rebraced (I went with invisalign this time around) they told me that I should have been in retainers all along, but back then they really didn't know much or think that teeth had a "memory" and for a lot of people they will slowly shift back to their original positions.

I've been out of my invisalign for almost a year now and wear my retainers at night faithfully. Between the cost of treatment, cosmetic teeth bonding (one of my front teeth was shorter than the other from a monkey bar incident when younger) and gingivectomy to make my gum line more even - there is no way I want them to revert back again. They are not perfect, but they are way way better than they were even before I had them off in the 80's (since I did not have the bonding or gum surgery, etc done). I still have a slight overbite as even with the elastics and headgear they could only get it back so far - mine is due more to the size of my upper jaw vs the size of the lower and the only way to truly get rid of it totally would be to break my jaw and make the top one smaller or the bottom larger, which I have not and never will be willing to do! So while not perfect, at least i'm no longer hating my smile like I did!

_________________
Donna
Started treatment 9/2/09
Treatment finished 4/27/11

Hi there,

I won't even get into what I think of your first orthodontist. But, to answer your question, a retainer for life is the way to go. People were being told that back in the 80's, and I'm still making new ones for people who go back to their ortho after 20-30 years.

Our teeth shift as we get older, and that goes for people who never had braces as well. Wisdom teeth could be a culprit, or just simple tiny shifts that shift something else that shifts something else, etc. People who had ortho treatment are more likely to shift back to where they were as teeth "remember" where they are supposed to be.

Good luck!

Hey labguy question if i may, seeing as you mentioned that you are in the business of retainers, can you answer this
.
How on earth does an ortho take impressions with braces on???

And also how readily available are those flossable retainers i really want that as my permanat one not that other one they offer???

Sorry to ambush the posting topic

_________________

[/url]

img]http://tickers.TickerFactory.com/ezt/d/4;10725;104/st/20110511/e/Braces+on+bottom+%28metal%29/dt/-10/k/53a2/event.png[/img]
[/url]

Hi Huggy,

Taking an impression with the braces on is just like taking one with them off, the alginate will form up around the braces and the mold will be made with the braces in place. When it comes to the lab, it makes it harder on the lab guy as we have to carve off the brackets, bands, etc, sometimes flat out guessing at the shape of the teeth and the gum line, to make the retainer fit in the mouth as if the braces were no longer there.

As for the permanent flossable retainers, I have no idea, but I steer my family and friends away from them. My daughter has a permanent one on her lower teeth, but she is religious about hygiene. Of course, it popped out on the day before she was supposed to leave for a semester abroad and I had to call in a favor to get a doctor to replace it late at night. Besides that though, I've read a lot about hygiene issues and teeth can still move with them in, which gives you less options than hawley or essix retainers.

Feel free to private message me if you have more questions off topic.

--Chris

Thanks for the replies!

I've seen two orthos now, and I'll see one more before making my decision who to go with. One said he sees relapse cases like mine every week, so I guess the "retention for life" message wasn't getting out there very well back in the day. While some people might be slack about retention, I'm sure there are plenty who would have stuck with it if they knew they needed to - like me! Oh well.

I had braces in the mid-80's and received the same advice you did: wear your retainers full time for a year, at night only for a year, and then never again. That was the standard advice given to people back then - I think orthodontists just didn't know that it was needed.

Unfortunately, my teeth moved a LOT after I stopped wearing my retainers and I'm in the process of fixing them again (braces and orthognathic surgery this time around, lucky me!).

I consulted with several orthodontists this time around and all recommended lifetime retainer wear - full time for a year, then nightly forever more. All recommend lower bonded retainers as well as removable retainers, and one also recommended a bonded upper retainer.

_________________
http://jawsurgerysaga.blogspot.com/

I had braces in the late '70s and early '80s, and my ortho (who was much more civil than yours) said to keep wearing retainers (top/bottom Hawleys) forever. I had those well into the '90s, when they basically fell apart. I then got a rigid essix-type retainer/bit-guard for my uppers, although my teeth had shift a bit.

I suspect that nature doesn't guarantee us arrow-straight teeth for life, and that those of us who have gone to the trouble and expense of having them straightened are keen on maintaining this aesthetic to a higher level than is "normal".

Personally, retainers at night don't bother me. It would be hard to go back to crooked teeth after all of this.

Hmmm... so basically, my ortho WAS a jerk! It's clear from these replies that it wasn't unheard-of to wear retainers forever back then. Grrr...

Be careful, saying 'Grrr' can move your teeth.

Relapse is a nasty, little secret that few providers talked about in years past and still far too little today IMHO. The truth is teeth/gums continue to change throughout life. They are living tissue. Retention is for life. And there may be changes that have to be made to that retention as people get older and there are changes in their mouth.

Thanks RMF.

If someone had said to "retention is for life" to me years ago, and told me I'd need to check in with an ortho every few years and occasionally get a new retainer, I would have been fine with it. I would have budgeted accordingly and so on. It actually makes MORE sense to expect your teeth to move than to expect them not to, since human bodies are always changing.