This is the end ...

Message

#1 Post by **Clo** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:48 pm

... not of me in braces, but of my treatment the way it is done now.

Only last week, I posted this :

viewtopic.php?t=13298

Well ...
it didn't work at all. Actually in only some days it totally ruined my bite. It
did one thing right though, it now clearly showed that the way my ortho was
working is not the right one.

I asked for an emergency visit and got one yesterday. My god, I was there
for like 1,5 hour. I could explain clearly and completely what went wrong.
In general, these are :

my overjet does not improve, even with the heaviest elastics.
my open bite does not improve.
my lower jaw has "collapsed", is now too narrow due to all those elastics.
extruded molars and premolars due to the elastics.
bad complication due to my headgear, this is tipping backwards of molars.

and what is frightening :

my upper canines and all upper premolars are so tilted inwards that their
roots begin sticking out through the gums. There are now very obvious
white bumps. It scared even my ortho like hell.

So ...
he said this is the end of me in elastics ! So, no more Clo in elastics ! No
more King of Elastics. ArchWired will have to search for another King or
Queen of Elastics. I have reigned for more than 2 years now. I now resign !
Ok, I may be putting this here jokingly, but the situation is quite worrying.

And then this almost surrealistic thing happend. He phoned a very good oral
surgeon to come to his practise when I have another appointment next week,
on monday. So when I go next week, there will be this surgeon too to see
my case and see my overjet and open bite. That means I will probably need
jaw surgery after all.

No, it does not look very ok right now. Most of the orthodontic means are
exhausted for me. My teeth may not take this much longer and my bite has
never been worse ...

It was a good talk though. Like I said, taking about 1,5 hour. It was really
strange he took so much time for me to be able to explain. But he was very
surprised how much I knew about all this stuff. I guess it paid off being here
from time to time. Everything he said I understood. I knew what it was,
what it did, what the implications were and so on. I put some things on paper
too, to leave some "traces of me" there once I went away.

There may be another solution, being wearing a herbst for some time, then
followed by quite some corrections about everywhere. He does herbsts a
lot, but never did it on adults. But I found an article on the net that shows
how well it works for adults too ...

So, these are really decision days being in front of me. Or jaw surgery or
maybe that herbst appliance. To be continued ...

#2 Post by **Attagirl2** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:02 am

Oh Clo. Sorry things have come to this. But I am also very proud of you for calling your orthodontist and taking the time to tell him exactly what was not working. Sometimes I think the orthodontists get so busy handling their many patients, that they keep on doing what they have always done and don't see what is truly happening. I pray that they next step for you is the correct one.

#3 Post by **shinyam** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:47 am

Clo, sorry to hear about your situation. But I think everyone on this board is proud of the way you have handled yourself.

If it makes you feel any better, I am starting treatment all over again, after two years. The expander left me with an overjet, so now I am going with the extraction route.

I can only have faith that things will work out. I wish you the best as well. Don't get discouraged. Pick yourself up and continue the long march.

#4 Post by **Lisa65** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:27 am

I'm so sorry Clo

but as you say at least it sounds like they are taking your case seriously now.
hopefully the oral surgeon can think of a way to help you.

#5 Post by **fins** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:37 am

Oh Clo, I am so sorry braces didn't turn out well for you. Well, at least the elastics torture is done with and that's one small consolation.

I really hope things improve for you.

#6 Post by **Clo** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:19 am

To make more clear. It is indeed Herbst OR surgery. The Herbst moves all
lower teeth forward, so that the overjet is reduced. It is more a rather dental
movement. Surgery is not about dental movement, it makes it possible to move
the entire, in my case lower jaw forward.

In not too extreme cases, Herbst seems to be a very good alternative. But
of course it takes much longer to do its work. And I would be the first adult
to get a Herbst by my ortho. I even think there are very few in my country.

Both are ways to correct my overjet. I still have major issues about my open
bite. I have to wait and see what the oral surgeon thinks about that ...

#7 Post by **lionfish** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:31 pm

I feel for you and hope there is a solution. At least you don't have to suffer elastics any more.

#8 Post by **smile2006** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:46 pm

Clo-

I'm very interested to hear what the surgeon says. I would hate for you to have to go my route (braces once only to see the results fail because the problem was skeletal). I personally, if given the option, would go the surgery route. It is a predictable surgery with generally stable results. Plus, you won't have to struggle with another contraption in your mouth that could damage your teeth/gums even more. I'd also be particularily cautious if your ortho has never used that appliance with adults

This is not the time for you to be a guinea pig with all you've been through. I suspect the surgeon will answer the question of what to do. Good luck. I'll be looking for your update. If you go the surgery route, I can answer answer questions about correcting an open bite with upper and lower jaw surgery.

Congrats on getting rid of all those elastics....let me tell you what you had is comparable to being banded down after surgery and that heavy banding only lasts a week or so!

#9 Post by **Eleni** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:15 pm

Clo, my sympathies are with you for having to deal with the implications of your orthodontic treatment. I applaud you for educating yourself on your situation, researching your treatment options and then discussing them at length with your ortho. Though the alternative treatments arenâ€™t the quick fixes we hoped they would be, you are no longer King of Elastics, and you are investigating your options with additional professional insight and experience.

Now that you have hung up your elastics crown and left the royal family, what do you plan to do? Any other kingships you have your eye on?

I also bet you can come up with very creative plans for your left over elastics.

All in all Iâ€™m proud of you!!!!

#10 Post by **Clo** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:40 pm

@Eleni : thanks for your post !

I indeed have learned a lot doing some research on the net. I even think
that there will be a major change in medical world, or for that matter in any
other field, as patients can be informed a lot more and much deeper than
ever before. My ortho was surprised how much I learned. He again said I
would be a real good ortho myself. Wouldn't that be an idea, to take over
the whole "ortho business". King is not enough anymore, I'll go for nothing
less than Emperor of Braceland !

#11 Post by **Chris** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 4:31 pm

I don't know what more I can add to the posters, Clo.
I hope and pray that you find someone who can correct this for you.
Never give up hope.

Perhaps you need a break from all this before you jump into another form of treatment. Time for a breather from all the gear.
Is your bite functional at all so that you can eat ok?
Are you in any pain?

#12 Post by **Clo** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:58 pm

Thanks Tracey !

I did a search to find more info too and found some articles too, though it
were only extracts of them. You need to pay if you want to read the complete
article (PubMed and Angle Orthodontist). Since my ortho is specialised in
applying this Herbst I gave him a copy of these reports. My ortho is working
together with a lab in the Netherlands, and they both created an improved
version of the Herbst, that seems to work better and that does not break so
often. Many Herbsts seem to break at the joints. I gave him these reports
because he just didn't treat adults with that appliance yet. But since my case
seems to be a borderline case and Herbsts do work then very well, I will talk
more about this option tomorrow or the days that follow.

@Chris : about that break, my ortho did say that was an option too. Remove
the braces, wait 5 months and then see what can or need to be done at that
time. I think this is not a good idea. If you have braces, then you know
there is bone breaking down. If the braces are removed, then a settling occurs
because of bone rebuilding. Now if I wait this 5 months, then I will have
settling, and when all is about done, I will start all over. Again breaking
down bone. And I will need to start over, as my bite is now terrible.

My bite is now functional in this way that only 2 molars (left first ones) make
contact and these I use to chew. I indeed have pain, my jaw joints hurt all
the time since the elastics were removed. My teeth seem to be so adjusted
to these that they can't be without them anymore. So, strangely enough, I
still wear them now, but trying to decrease the hours I wear them. I hope
they did not ruin my joints too. And what worries me too is that I see each
day I loose a bit of what was accomplished. After only some days I have
about 1 mm more overjet and 2 mm more open bite. If my ortho will torque
(flare) my incisors, I will end up with an overjet of about 5 mm again. About
the same as when I started 28 months ago ...