Loop's Story (with photos)

[Loop]

Where to start!?

Background:
I'm fairly new here. I am 25, I now wish I got braces sooner. I had an evil orthodontist when I was a teenager - she was renound in the area for being really mean! She told me I would have to wait until all my adult teeth came out before they could even think about starting treatment. I waited and waited until finally my last baby tooth came out when I was 19, so I went back eager to start my treatment at long last. Then came the bombshell, oh by the way, your adult canines never came out, they're stuck in your palate so we're going to have to cut them out. Also, as you're now 19 you don't qualify for free treatment on the NHS anymore, it's going to cost you.
At the time I thought no way! My crooked teeth didn't really bother me and I certainly wasn't going to pay for the "priviledge" of being her patient, I also remember my mother being angry that she only told us about the impacted canines (despite numerous x-rays and appointments during my teens) when I was 19 and not sooner.

Anyway, roll on 5 years and I'm having problems cleaning my lower front teeth because of the crowding. I hear about the possibility of getting the orthodontic treatment for free at my local dental hospital in return for being their guinea pig for the students, I spoke to my dentist and they thought it'd be a good idea and referred me, I ended up waiting just over a year for my first appointment.

Diagnosis:
At the hospital they took x-rays to find out the exact location of those pesky canines. They decided that I would need them removed surgically. They would also remove my baby canines (which are still in place) and one incisor from the bottom. I have to have the impacted canines removed under general anaesthetic so I've asked that they do the other extraction at the same time. I know the regular extractions won't hurt but there's something that gives me the creeps about someone pulling out one of my lower teeth! Also, I'm a massive wimp!
Once the surgery is done, I have to wait 6 weeks to heal, then it's the dreaded spacers! A week later, I will have a lingual arch fitted on both my upper and lower arch to maintain the spaces. I haven't got a date yet for the fixed brace but when it comes it will be on both upper and lower.

I've taken what is likely the most unflattering poses ever! Excuse the poor quality - it was a DIY job.

Front:


Bite:


Upper:


Lower:


One of the drawbacks of being treated at the dental hospital is that the orthodontists can't take as much time explaining your diagnosis and treatment with you. If you don't think of the question when you're there, you're screwed! So I've found this forum invaluable in helping to answer those questions that pop into my head after I've left the hospital!

My surgery for removing the impacted canines and other teeth is tomorrow - I am a bit nervous! Will update afterwards.

[Dodger(UK)]

Hi Loop - Congrats on making your decision to go down the orthodontic route, I was fobbed off with NHS dentistry for much of my 20's, so in the end I had to go private. It's a decision I've never regretted. It should be good seeing the progress you will make with having braces.

I never had surgery or impacted teeth, but I did have 4 extractions in one visit, and if your having Novacaine shots, you won't feel a thing. Good Luck!

[joplin]

Good luck, Loop!
Thanks for posting your pics! We're definately on the same boat with impacted canines and rotated laterals, aren't we!
I'm looking forward to hear how your surgery went. Mine will be in May and I can already feel the butterflies... Gosh, I think I can feel your butterflies as I'm thinking of you!
BTW why do you have to wait 6 weeks until getting started with the orthodontics part? Any medical reason?

[Loop]

Thanks for your encouragement guys! It feels good to be able to share this with people who've been through similar experiences.

Well, I had my surgery! I am officially canine-less (on top). I was really nervous when I showed up at the hopsital but the nurse was really lovely to me. She gave me an anaesthetic cream on my hand to numb it before they put the needle in, this made me feel better straight away as one of the things I was nervous about was them putting the drip in my hand (I told you I was a wimp!!).

I walked into the operating theatre and they told me to lie down on the bed. I was actually suprised, I don't know why but I was just expecting it to look like a dentist's surgery and to sit in a chair but it was the full works with a bed and surgical light etc. My boyfriend was allowed to come in and hold my hand while I went under which I thought was a nice touch.
They put the needle in my hand which I hardly felt because of the cream, they put a mask on me which they said was oxygen then injected the anaestheic into my hand. It was a strange feeling, at first it's cold and you can feel it going up your arm, then it starts to sting but by that stage you already feel drousy, I had enough time to say bye and a little wave to my boyfriend then I was out!

Next thing I know, the friendly nurse was telling me to wake up, all I said was "Oh, I was dreaming"! It was just like being asleep, I know I was dreaming about something but I forgot it as soon as I woke up! The next thing I felt was pain! I've heard people on here say before about feeling they've been punched in the mouth when they got braces, well that's what it felt like.
The surgeon popped in and said something about having trouble getting my impacted canines out - especially the right one, it was really high up. The nurse goes look at the time, you were in there ages. I think I ended up being in there about an hour and normally it should take about 20/30 minutes.
They gave me an ibuprofen almost straight away and took me into the recovery room. I was bleeding a bit, not too bad. They'd given me local anaesthetic aswell as general and it felt like I was drooling - drooling blood! I had a quick peek in the mirror at my new mouth. Very gappy! I also noticed the stiches were in the front of my mouth and not the roof of my mouth. I assumed they would have to go in this way because when I looked at my x-rays, that's where the teeth appeared to be. I've no idea how they managed to get them out, it's probably better I don't.

All in all, it went fairly quickly. I went in to hospital at 8am, went into surgery about 9:30, came out at 10:40 and was allowed home at 11:30!
I'd already stocked up on jelly and custard. I thought I might not feel like eating because of the anaesthetic but I was fine. The pain is not too bad as long as I keep it under control with the pain killers - I can feel it as soon as they're starting to wear off. I'm finding it weird trying to get used to these gaps in my teeth. I feel that when I talk, air is blowing out through the gaps and inflating my lips. I can also feel the opposite aswell, my lips are bing sucked in through the gaps! it's affected my speech slightly but I'm sure I'll get used to it though.
My next appointment is in a week, just a check-up to see everything's healing ok.

Joplin - I am following your story with great interest because we have similar problems! I wasn't given any other reason for having to wait 6 weeks other than it was to give my mouth a chance to heal. Interestingly, the surgeon said that by removing the impacted canines, it would make my front teeth, particularly my laterals, not as stable as before. He said they may feel loose and I have to be careful biting into things for the next 6-8 weeks. I'm not sure if that's part of the reson for the wait.
I think also because it is a teaching hospital, I probably have to wait longer than most between treatment because of the large numbers of patients. It's a pain that I'll be walking aroung with these gaps for so long before I get a brace on but I shouldn't complain, at least they are getting sorted at long last. There's also no turning back now. With these big gaps in my teeth, I have to get them fixed - no excuses!
Good luck for your surgery in May. I'm sure you'll be fine! If the biggest wimp like me can cope, you can too. Especially since you've had surgery & extractions before, you'll be a veteran! I look forward to hearing how it went.

I'll post pictures of my extractions when everything's all healed up.

[joplin]

Hey, Loop! Good to hear from you! I'm glad to hear your surgery went fine and you seem to be feeling OK too You did it, you did it!

We are almost like canine twins: my right one is also rather high up in there and on the front side of my mouth so I guess I'll have stitches right where you have yours too. How are they feeling? Are they stinging or poking your lip? I remember how my post-SARPE front stitch used to do that, it was so annoying.

I've been worried about what you said about those laterals getting instable after the canines are gone. My OS has not mentioned this really, it's just my common sense guessing, but yours said this? Have you noticed that happening already? How does it feel? Eew, it gives me the shivers to think of the feeling of loose teeth... let's hope we'll both avoid that!

Did your surgeon prescribe antibiotics? Or just painkillers?

Now take good care of yourself and let your boyfriend pamper you. Get all the rest you can, take a lot of naps, they do help! And between naps, please keep us posted! I'm watching you just as closely as you're watching me

[Loop]

Hey Joplin!

So far my stiches have been fine, I can't feel them at all! I can only think to describe them as normal sewing thread so they don't stick in or anything. Were your stiches similar or were they stiffer? They are dissolving stiches but they said they take up to 2 months to disappear! I can have them cut out at my check-up appointment next week but I think I'll keep them in - they are almost a comfort to me, I feel that they are keeping everything all together!
The one thing I can't do with them is smile or laugh too much. It's like my mouth's been stiched into a straight face!

Don't worry too much about the lateral instability. he did say it's a possibility but not a certainty. They do feel a little strange, I would describe it as tender, as though I'd been hit in the mouth but definitely not loose. I am being really careful when I brush my teeth and not using them to bite into anything. The good thing about this surgery is that the back teeth aren't affected so you can chew everything as normal. Last night I had pepperoni pizza, cut up into little bits. Yum!

I feel lucky to have someone else on here with the same problems as me to share things with! You know the one bit of orthodontic work that my evil orthodontist did when I was a teen was to treat my crossbite. I had what looked like a Hawley retainer but with a screw in the middle that I had to turn once a week if I remember rightly. Anyway, evil orthodontist did at least fix my crossbite back then. If I hadn't had this treatment though, I'd be being treated now for a crossbite aswell!

I'm interested - your surgery to expand you palate, what did they do for that? I don't remember reading about that anywhere (I think I only picked up from where you got your palate expander fitted.) Also, what happened to your baby cannines? Did they fall out as normal and then your other adult teeth just filled the gap? You seem to have a bit more room on top than me!

[Loop]

Oops! Missed the question about the painkillers...

They didn't prescribe me antibiotics, they said they'd see how it healed first. They also didn't prescribe me painkillers as you have to pay for your prescriptions here once you are over 25 years, £6 an item! They said it would be cheaper for me to buy them over the counter at the pharmacy. (Yes, I didn't get anything fancy like vicodin!). They recommended two Paracetamol & Codeine every 4 hours and one Ibuprofen 400mg every 6 and you are allowed to take them in conjunction. As long as I remember to take them I find them really effective but you can feel it as soon as they wear off.
I also have to rinse my mouth carefully with salt water 4 times a day which tastes foul!
I wonder how long till it all heals up, they recomended I took a week off work.

[joplin]

I feel lucky to have someone else on here with the same problems as me to share things with!

Likewise! I don't feel like such a freak about this now
It's good that you had your crossbite corredted when you were young. I had to have an expansion surgery and the expander to correct that. So I've got that part treated by now, too. See, we had that problem in common, too!

I'm interested - your surgery to expand you palate, what did they do for that? I don't remember reading about that anywhere (I think I only picked up from where you got your palate expander fitted.) Also, what happened to your baby cannines? Did they fall out as normal and then your other adult teeth just filled the gap? You seem to have a bit more room on top than me!

I think I posted my surgery story under another title than my own Joplin's impacted canines thread. Silly me. Now it's gone with the hacker incident
The surgery was done in attempt to make enough room for my canines to be brought down on the arch, but with no luck. Not enough space was gained, and if I now wanted to try and get those canines pulled down, it would mean extracting my premolars and then HOPING those canines would come down with the help of braces. It's not 100% certain they would. I see that as too much of a risk, so we're taking the route of removing the canines.
Also the expansion surgery took care of that crossbite I mentioned. I never realized I had a crossbite, but it's obvious to me now as I look at my pre and post expansion pictures. Something good came out of that expansion ordeal anyway

In short: in SARPE they make cuts in your jaw bone on both sides, up where the gum meets the cheek AND they crack your palate suture by cracking it open with a hit of a hammer right below your nose, above your front teeth. So all incisions are made inside your mouth. Then the expander was used to slowly widen the palate, one key turn a day for about 3 weeks. The surgery wasn't too bad, no pain or anything. It was the expander I loathed

All my baby teeth fell out normally as a kid, but my arch was so narrow there was no room for the adult canines to come down in their due time. So I've always lacked a pair of teeth. I have front teeth and laterals and then come the first premolars etc. The rest of the teeth could make a nice line of teeth, as far as space goes, unless those hiding canines pulled my laterals that way. I think EyeSpy on this board has the exact same history with me.

Keep up the spirits! I sense that you're feeling good and that makes me happy! Take care and stay tuned!

[Loop]

Well it certainly sounds like you've really been through it already what with the SARPE and the palate expander. I think everything from now on will be a doddle for you!

I wasn't given any other option for my canines other than extraction but if I were you, I think I would have chosed to have them removed also.
My main problem is being impatient! My ortho said my treatment time will be approx. 18 months with a fixed brace, I've heard it takes a lot longer if you have to try and bring the canines down. I don't think I could take the wait for something that's not 100% going to happen. My ortho also said my smile won't be 100% perfect but only a dentist will be able to see the imperfections (he was referring to the fact I would have no canines on top and only three incisors on the bottom). I trust him and let's face it, whatever the outcome, it's got to be better than what it looks like now!

I also think it would be a shame for you to loose your pre-molars when they're doing such a good job at the moment masquerading as canines!

I AM feeling happy - mainly because my treatment is finally underway after having waiting over a year already (it's that impatience problem again!!)
It sounds strange but I am looking forward to you having your surgery in May to see how it went and to compare!

[joplin]

I've heard it takes a lot longer if you have to try and bring the canines down.

Yes, it does. Eleni's stubborn canine has been making its slow entrance for a year now and there are others on this board with similar canine process in progress. I think Fyrelight's canines came completely in in about a year or so, if my memory serves me right. Please correct me, if I'm wrong, Fyrelight!

So my case - imaginary - would be: I would have gaps where my premolars now are and my laterals would stay twisted as long as it would take for the canines to show up. My upper arch would be such an ugly mess I'm not too thrilled about the thought of it. Especiallyl if it lasted that way a year or two! I mean picture it in my avatar! Like you said my premolars could almost pass for canines to anyone but a dentists or another person's educated eye like yours or mine

BTW, do you do what I do: observe other people's canines? Every time I see someone's teeth I automatically check out their canine status: yes, this person has canines. I'm kind of looking for a person without them! Like a birdwatcher is always keeping her eyes open for a rare species So far no luck! Call me one track mind

[joplin]

Loop and others in our canine gang, here's once more my x-ray to show the status of my impacted canines. As you can see the right one is higher up than the left one. It's also the one I can feel as a lump in my gum. The left one can not be felt but the radiologist said it's only this far from having broken into surface, it's a matter of millimeters. At least the OS won't have to dig deep to get his hands on them.
Do you see any similarities to your x-ray pictures, Loop? I'm just curious!



Oh, BTW, those wisdom teeth are not there anymore.

[Loop]

Sorry for not replying sooner. Things got a bit worse before they got better! The pain suddenly worsened on day 3 after my surgery and I convinced myself I got dry socket or something. I'm such a hypochondriac! After day 3, it suddenly got a lot better but I would say the discomfort got worse. It swelled up and it was such an effort trying to eat anything. I carried on with my salt mouthwashes though and by Monday (day 5) it was all looking a bit better. I swear by those salt mouthwashes!

My stiches are stinging at the front and they spontaneously started bleeding last night and this morning, my left front lateral is also feeling a little weird - very sensitive. The gum is also receded over both laterals, hopefully this is only temporary.
I have my check up appointment tomorrow and I am interested in what they say. I am a little worried about my front teeth because I was looking over my consent form that I signed before the surgery and they list risks on there as pain, swelling, bruising, mobility/damage to adjacent teeth. The surgeon did not say anything to me about the possibility of damaging the other teeth! All he mentioned was the mobility! The form was an A3 sheet folded in half. Where he had written these risks was on the other side to the part where I signed. I had no idea this form had 2 sides - they just handed it to me on a clip board! I didn't even realise he was writing things on it. It's my own fault for not having a good look before I signed but beware any potential patients - DOUBLE CHECK WHAT YOU ARE SIGNING AND MAKE SURE YOU ARE 100% HAPPY!!

Joplin - I've seen your x-ray before and I thought at the time that looks just like mine!! Really - it is pretty much identical, your canines look like they are at a similar angle and location. How did you manage to get a copy of your x-ray? I'd love to get copies of mine. I was facinated by the side-profile one (not sure what the correct name for it is) I couldn't stop looking at it!
I know exactly what you mean about studying everyone elses teeth - especially those canines! I actually spotted what I thought was a potential canine-less person at work but on looking closer I think it is his laterals that are missing. I was going to ask him about it but I felf he might not want it pointed out, I didn't want to seem rude. Maybe when I get my brace on I could get into a conversation with him and try and find out. Good to see another person with just 4 non-molars at the front though!
I shall continue my search for fellow canine-less people; if you're out there be warned - Joplin & I will find you!

Anyway, I've got to go back to work tomorrow. Can't believe how quickly this week has gone!

*Edit* Forgot to add, the stiches have an annoying side-effect in that I can barely move my upper lip! It's all stiched up so smiling or laughing are out the question - it hurts! Great for preventing wrinkles though, who needs botox?

[joplin]

Hi, Loop! I'm just as interested in hearing your surgeon's words today as you are! I mean that receding gum and sensitive lateral (does it feel loose too or just sensitive?) got me worried about my own case yet to be treated. No-one has mentioned gum recession to me, I wonder why that happens and if it's just because of the swelling? Please report, Loop, will you?

The ortho's office gave me a paper print of the digital x-ray picture when I asked for it, no problem. Whenever anyone is interested about what my problem really is, it is so much easier to show the picture than to try and explain it. To most people the idea of teeth hiding somewhere inside your face is impossible to understand!

I know how it feels not to be able to move your face - it was just like that when I had the expansion surgery. Sometimes my boyfriend made me laugh though and so I laughed and cried at the same time because laughing hurt so much! And that just made it all even more funny... I would rather not go through all that again, but since I have to, at least I know what to expect now.

Do you have a lot of bruising? I'm a little worried about not just feeling like I've been hit in the mouth but also looking like that! I got away with little bruising after my wisdom teeth surgery, but you never know how your body reacts to these things.

If your surgeon did not mention the possibility of damaging other teeth maybe it just was not an issue in your case? In mine that is a concern because the roots up there are so crowded - or at least they were before the expansion, even more so than in that post-expansion x-ray in which you can see the laterals' roots still are very close to those pushy canines. The expansion helped things a bit but it will still not be a picnic for the OS to work in there. He says I shouldn't worry about it and that it will be an easier procedure than my wisdom teeth surgery but still... they've been telling me from day one how complicated out of the ordinary my case is, so it's hard not to be worried until the fat lady sings.

So how is it being back to work, Loop? Do you feel up to it?

[Loop]

Today I woke up felt 10x better than I have all week. It's strange, I notice that my recovery has not been gradual, instead it improves in steps, and it hurts the most just before it gets better. So I had to be back in work today but it was not so bad because of the improvement. I can finally give my teeth a good brushing which I was struggling to do before (my breath was atrocious!!!) and my upper lip is able to produce a half-smile. My front teeth also don't feel as sensitive.

I went for my check-up this afternoon, I saw a different surgeon to the one that did my operation - this one was a lot nicer! I asked him about the potential damage to the front teeth, he said it would normally be picked up during the surgery and there was nothing in the notes to suggest that there had been but then he added, but you never know (think he was just covering his back with the last comment though.)
I told him I was worried about my lateral tooth because it felt weird, he got me to wobble it, I didn't want to cos I thought it might make it loose! But it was ok and very definitely not wobbling.
I checked about the gum recession, he said sometimes the gum is already receded but by removing the adjacent tooth sometimes you only just notice it. That is a possibility, but I am certain it was never THIS receded. He said to brush down with my toothbrush to try and encourage my gum down but also that it may stay like it is forever I'm hoping this isn't the case.
He told me my left canine was near the front and therefore easily reached and my right canine was in the roof of my mouth and very stubborn!

As for bruising, I never had any external bruising on my face. The gum did look a little blue above my front incisors but that's gone now and the way my lip was stiched up, you couldn't even see my upper teeth let alone my gum. In fact the only outside signs you've had any treatment is the swelling, I don't know if you've heard the saying 'Trout Pout'? Well I had it! It suddenly appeared on Day 3 and pretty much went by day 5. For me, the tender spots were the gum above my front teeth, the roof of my mouth (I had some swelling) and also I got an ulcer on my lower gum or it might have been where they injected me with anaesthetic. Either way, it bloody hurt more than my stiches!
My speech has been slightly affected, I have a slight lisp and trouble pronouncing certain words. I can't tell if it's the swelling on the roof of my mouth or my other extractions that's causing it, my money's on the extraction gaps. They are a pain. I want to tell everyone I meet that I only have gaps because I'm getting braces but obviously I can't tell EVERYONE. I need a t-shirt or something.
Joplin, I think on the whole you are lightly to have a bit of an easier time with your surgery.
1) You've had previous practise with your SARPE and Wisdom teeth extractions. For all I know, this could be a walk in the park compared!
2) I had to have 3 extractions on top of the canine removal so my mouth ended up a bit more of a mess than yours should.
I am the biggest baby when it comes to pain and I've survived so I have the greatest confidence that you'll be fine. Another positive thing is you'll get a week off work and be pampered by your boyfriend. Definitely a positive thing!

Roll on 6 weeks, I can't wait for things to get moving now!!

[joplin]

Loop, I'm so relieved to hear your lateral is fine and everything is going as planned, that's wonderful! You're feeling better too, great! Now you can start looking forward to all the joys of orthodontics instead of all that it takes to get there - I'm still on that boat and can't wait to get going with the actual straightening! You pulled through the bad part and now you're my personal Canine Idol

BTW if my story goes as happily as yours we'll be braced around the same time: I have my surgery in 4 weeks and the appointment for bracing (I still have to ask my ortho and make sure she doesn't think it's too soon though) in 6 weeks from now. It will be fun to walk through this together

No bruising, that sounds good. Your swelling didn't sound too bad either. Anyways, I can take whatever swelling or bruising as long as my adjacent teeth stay safe! I'm mostly scared of having something happen to them. That thought haunts me!

Keep reporting! I'd love to hear when you can flash a painless smile again