WIN lingual upper and self-ligating ceramic Damon Clear bottom ? Or full ceramic ?

[luk]

Hi all ,

I'm male , 38 years old , and in few months i'll need to use orthodontic braces to straight my theets .

What do you advice me : WIN lingual upper and self-ligating Damon Clear bottom ? Or full self-ligating ceramic : Damon Clear upper + Damon Clear bottom ?

Pros and Cons between this 2 methods ?

The Win system is an evolution of the Incognito system, this was also developed by Dr Dirk Wiechmann. Win is a custom made brace. Being custom made ensures a better fit, and less impact on speech. The updates that Dr Dirk Wiechmann sought to make are based around making the brackets smaller and easier to manipulate.

Incognito braces are from gold alloy , and WIN braces are metallic braces , but in rest are the same , i read it even WIN braces are smaller and lower profile .

First of all, i wish to tell you, i'll prefer self-ligating ceramic braces , instead twisted-wire or elastic ties . So i'll wish to use self-ligating full ceramic Damon Clear braces .

1. Which of methods are painless : WIN lingual upper + ceramic bottom

or full ceramic : Damon Clear upper + bottom ?

Will the tongue hurt more with WIN lingual upper than with full self-ligating ceramic ? Of course, the "lingual upper" will hurt the tongue, but with full ceramic, will hurt the soft tissue of my mouth . So how it's better ?

2. Whith which method i can eat much easier ?

3. Which method will let me to speak more easy ?

4. Which method will take longer time ?

5. Which method can i clean it more easy ? With Waterpik can i clean the lingual also ? Which Waterpik should i use ? WP-660 or WP-100 ?

6. With which method i'll get better orthodontic results ? Which method are a better orthodontic threatment ?

7.What other Pros and Cons can you telling me about this 2 methods , why to choose one of the method, or the other .


Unfortunettly , nobody can telling the difference between this 2 methods , because if someone have choose it the "lingual upper" method , than he/she doesn't know it how it would be with full self-ligating ceramic , and vice-versa .


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In bottom i wish to use self-ligating Damon Clear brace with cosmetic ( white ) archwire .

What cosmetic ( tooth colour - white ) archwire i can use it with Damon Clear for a full aesthethic ? Because i've asked ORMCO who produce Damon Clear braces and they have tould me, they doesn't have cosmetic archwire for Damon Clear ( interesting )

The cosmetic ( white ) archwire are normal metallic ( NiTi ) archwire coated with PTFE ( polytetrafluoroethylene ) called "Teflon"

What about cosmetic ( white ) archwire coated with Teflon about friction forces ( RS - resistance to sliding )

Can i use cosmetic ( white ) archwire in all the phases of my orthodontic threatment , or just in first phase ( few months ), and then i'll need to use stainless steel archwire ?
I asked this, because my orthodontis have tould me, she will not use Teflon coated archwire, just in the first phase of threatment, because the Teflon coated archwire will have a higher friction . That's true ?


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[iob]

Hi - I'll do my best to answer what I can. I had ceramics (not sure which brand, but not Damon and not self-ligating) before switching to Incognito top & bottom. So, I've had both, but not in combination at the same time, as you're suggesting with option one.

In order of your questions:
1) I don't think the magic, painless appliance has been developed yet. I've found the post-appointment, post-wire change soreness to be about the same. No surprise, ceramics bothered my cheeks/lips more, while linguals bother your tongue initially, but I didn't find either to be that big of a deal for very long. Overall, I actually found it easier to get used to the Incognitos. They bothered my tongue less and for a shorter period than the ceramics. That surprised me.

2) Easier to eat with? Not sure there's one answer. For me, it depends on which teeth are sore after an appointment, and how the ever-changing bite is lining up at that point...neither of which are really dependent on which system is being used. I imagine that if you have a really deep overbite, either ceramics on the lowers or linguals on the uppers will interfere with your incisors coming together. One thing is for sure, though: when eating in public nobody can see the food that gets trapped in your brackets with linguals.

3) Speaking? Ceramics easier than linguals.

4) Duration? Ask your ortho if he expects a difference in treatment time. In theory, they are supposed to be the same.

5) Easier to clean? Ceramic easier to clean, but frankly they're both a pain in the rear. Waterpik is great (required IMO) for either system. I actually don't find much difference in the time required for the bottoms. For the uppers, you have to channel your inner Jedi and visualize the linguals because, while nobody else ever sees them, neither do you when you brush/floss! As mentioned in 2 above, though, I don't have to be as picky about cleaning after eating with linguals because nobody knows that there's food stuck except you.

6) That's a question for your ortho. I was told that the results would be the same.

7) Other? I guess cost and aesthetics. WIN and Incognito cost more, so if you really don't care between linguals and ceramics, why spend the extra (significant) expense? Linguals are more aesthetic - nobody can see them, but others may be able to hear a difference while you're getting used to speaking with them. For me, having them out of sight has been great. If I didn't worry about being self-conscious with visible upper braces, I could have saved a lot of money with just ceramics and gotten the same result in the same time frame. But I did/do worry, so I'm very happy with the Incognitos.

Hope that helps. Let us know what you decide, and good luck!

[luk]

Thank you iob for your reply

I know, no one method it's painless , but i research to find it , between this 2 method which will be more easy to live with them :

1. Lingual WIN brace upper + Damon Clear lower

or

2. Damon Clear upper + Damon Clear lower

You have choose it to have full lingual braces, upper + lower , but i can imagine in lower archade the lingual braces will hurt my tongue, and will make the speaking difficult .

And instead of Incognito, which it's gold allow, i'll prefer WIN braces which are metallic, and i hope will be cheaper than Incognito ( and easy to live with them than Incognito, because are smaller braces and lower profile )

[aspiromusings]

Hi luk

Thanks for commenting on my blog recently, yes I do see you have a lot of questions (which is normal when considering braces )

What do you advice me : WIN lingual upper and self-ligating Damon Clear bottom ? Or full self-ligating ceramic : Damon Clear upper + Damon Clear bottom ? - apart from the visibility factor for lingual at the end of the day braces are braces, what really makes a difference is the skills of your orthodontist, I would suggest going with what he/she suggests, I ended up doing Damon clear as I felt it was the best option in terms of appearance (not so visible) whilst still retaining the treatment effectiveness of traditional metal braces - I have no regrets


Pros and Cons between this 2 methods ? - mostly visibility, note however that lingual braces are harder to adjust and manipulate, honestly as well I was so worried about my appearance in the beginning but after 9 months in braces I have really stopped caring lol

The Win system is an evolution of the Incognito system, this was also developed by Dr Dirk Wiechmann. Win is a custom made brace. Being custom made ensures a better fit, and less impact on speech. The updates that Dr Dirk Wiechmann sought to make are based around making the brackets smaller and easier to manipulate.

Incognito braces are from gold alloy , and WIN braces are metallic braces , but in rest are the same , i read it even WIN braces are smaller and lower profile .

First of all, i wish to tell you, i'll prefer self-ligating ceramic braces , instead twisted-wire or elastic ties . So i'll wish to use self-ligating full ceramic Damon Clear braces .

1. Which of methods are painless : WIN lingual upper + ceramic bottom

or full ceramic : Damon Clear upper + bottom ? - I have the latter and have experienced no pain

Will the tongue hurt more with WIN lingual upper than with full self-ligating ceramic ? Of course, the "lingual upper" will hurt the tongue, but with full ceramic, will hurt the soft tissue of my mouth . So how it's better ?

2. Whith which method i can eat much easier ? - My braces have not stopped me from eating anything!

3. Which method will let me to speak more easy ? - I did have a slight lisp the first week or so but now its all gone

4. Which method will take longer time ? - movement depends on the individual themselves but as you can see in my progress pics I experienced a lot of movement in the first month alone

5. Which method can i clean it more easy ? With Waterpik can i clean the lingual also ? Which Waterpik should i use ? WP-660 or WP-100 ? - I have a Waterpik and honestly consider it the best invention since sliced bread, it gets out all the food junk post meal effortlessly, I now clean after all meals with a Waterpik and manual floss once a day before bed

6. With which method i'll get better orthodontic results ? Which method are a better orthodontic threatment ? - as above my thoughts are its more about what your orthodontist feel more comfortable working with

7.What other Pros and Cons can you telling me about this 2 methods , why to choose one of the method, or the other .


Unfortunettly , nobody can telling the difference between this 2 methods , because if someone have choose it the "lingual upper" method , than he/she doesn't know it how it would be with full self-ligating ceramic , and vice-versa .


=====================================================================================

In bottom i wish to use self-ligating Damon Clear brace with cosmetic ( white ) archwire .

What cosmetic ( tooth colour - white ) archwire i can use it with Damon Clear for a full aesthethic ? Because i've asked ORMCO who produce Damon Clear braces and they have tould me, they doesn't have cosmetic archwire for Damon Clear ( interesting )

The cosmetic ( white ) archwire are normal metallic ( NiTi ) archwire coated with PTFE ( polytetrafluoroethylene ) called "Teflon"

What about cosmetic ( white ) archwire coated with Teflon about friction forces ( RS - resistance to sliding )

Can i use cosmetic ( white ) archwire in all the phases of my orthodontic threatment , or just in first phase ( few months ), and then i'll need to use stainless steel archwire ?
I asked this, because my orthodontis have tould me, she will not use Teflon coated archwire, just in the first phase of threatment, because the Teflon coated archwire will have a higher friction . That's true ?

Yes I only had white archwires in the begining for the first few months, hoenstly though it hasn't mattered much in terms of the visibility factor

Hope this helps! and welcome to the club