Some background for the new members here :
Ortho1 started 30 months ago. Lined up everything but completely ruined my bite.
I got an open bite and an overjet. My bite was a disaster. Ortho2 tried for about
8 months to correct the overjet and the open bite. He finally admitted it wasn't
working at all. So I went to see a third ortho.
I should tell I write this in a mood way below zero. No, the appointment was not ok.
I will be brief, as I am much too frustrated to make a long story.
I went in and after only 30 seconds I knew this would be a complete disappointment.
During my first appointment there (ortho3), I heard all things that were done wrongly.
Things that should have been done in another way or things that will need a lot of
extra corrections. Now, nothing about this. To be short, all is due to functional
imbalances and can't be corrected (now). My class 2 bite ... because I was born with
it. My open bite ... because of my tongue getting in the way. Ehhh, I don't find the
right words. But no, I didn't get braces. And if they would be placed, they would
never be able to create a good occlusion, she said. So, I have to do this. See a
speech therapist. To learn how to hold my tongue in a correct way. After 6 months
she will look what needs or can be done. But a good occlusion will not be possible.
And correcting my overjet is not possible, not orthodontically nor with jaw surgery.
The MRI scan shows it would be unwise doing so when considering the state of
my jaw joints. My lower arch being too narrow can't be corrected either as lower
arch expansion is not done (anymore). And this strange situation of a partly
corrected class 2 bite can't be corrected either. She won't move my molars.
So, she will not undo the correction and also will not continue the correction.
As said, after 6 months there will be a follow up to see what can be done, but I now
already hear nothing can be done for me.
There is so much more I could tell, but I don't have the energy right now to do so.
I know this is probably the most incoherent post of mine ever, but still I wanted to
post it, as some of you know I had an appointment today and I wanted to give some
information. It is very frustrating knowing what is wrong, knowing what can be
done and how, but not being able to grasp the possible solution ...
I had my appointment ...
Moderator: bbsadmin
I had my appointment ...
Last edited by Clo on Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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karebear46168
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:12 am
- Location: IN
@KK : this ortho is a professor at an university where orthodontists study.
It was a big step to go directly there. And I can't go any "higher" anymore in our
country. This is (should be) the top.
It was a big step to go directly there. And I can't go any "higher" anymore in our
country. This is (should be) the top.
Last edited by Clo on Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
CLO....
Sorry to read your post but I offer this.....You know I had an open bite too. My condition was a skeletal open bite that could only be corrected through jaw surgery. I also had a problem with tongue thrust because my upper and lower jaws were so misaligned. The tongue thrust further opened my bite. However, after upper and lower jaw surgery to correct my bite, my tongue now falls into a correct position and there is no more tongue thrust. So in your situation it seems like the ortho is putting the cart before the horse....I beleive (and have seen in myself) that correcting the skeletal imbalance in the jaws will take care of the tongue thrust issue. I might add in my case my narrow upper jaw was also part of the problem in that my tongue didn't have the space to sit correctly. So I had a 2 piece LeForte on the upper jaw which widened it and the BSSO. I so feel for you because our conditions are similar. You've said all along your procedure would be the BSSO which was interesting to me because open bites are usually corrected with upper jaw surgery (sometimes in combination with lower as in my case and many on the orthoganatic board). I encourage you to keep trying because there is a solution, I'm sure of it!
Sorry to read your post but I offer this.....You know I had an open bite too. My condition was a skeletal open bite that could only be corrected through jaw surgery. I also had a problem with tongue thrust because my upper and lower jaws were so misaligned. The tongue thrust further opened my bite. However, after upper and lower jaw surgery to correct my bite, my tongue now falls into a correct position and there is no more tongue thrust. So in your situation it seems like the ortho is putting the cart before the horse....I beleive (and have seen in myself) that correcting the skeletal imbalance in the jaws will take care of the tongue thrust issue. I might add in my case my narrow upper jaw was also part of the problem in that my tongue didn't have the space to sit correctly. So I had a 2 piece LeForte on the upper jaw which widened it and the BSSO. I so feel for you because our conditions are similar. You've said all along your procedure would be the BSSO which was interesting to me because open bites are usually corrected with upper jaw surgery (sometimes in combination with lower as in my case and many on the orthoganatic board). I encourage you to keep trying because there is a solution, I'm sure of it!
Clo, perhaps it is time to go out of country. At this point it may be your best option. Would it be possible to e mail your records to some oral surgeons? I know in the USA Dr. Arnett (Santa Barbara, CA)and Dr. Wolford (Dallas, Texas) are well known for positive outcome on dificult cases. I am sure there are many others.
@smile2006 : of course there is a solution. Making my overjet and class 2 more "pure".
It would involve holding the upper front teeth, flare them and move all (pre) molars
forward. And hold the lower molars and move all premolars and front teeth backwards.
This would create a very clear and nice class 2 with a big overjet. Once the BSSO
would be done, then about all teeth would occlude well. And it would result in a
very nice profile and lower lip support. Only the upper molars would need to be
intruded, to close the bite. Now the only issue is to find an ortho who will do this
for me. Or maybe I should do it myself.
It would involve holding the upper front teeth, flare them and move all (pre) molars
forward. And hold the lower molars and move all premolars and front teeth backwards.
This would create a very clear and nice class 2 with a big overjet. Once the BSSO
would be done, then about all teeth would occlude well. And it would result in a
very nice profile and lower lip support. Only the upper molars would need to be
intruded, to close the bite. Now the only issue is to find an ortho who will do this
for me. Or maybe I should do it myself.
Clo,
It seems from your description that you bite could be fixed with two-jaw surgery: BSSO mandibuar advancement for your Class II overjet problem and posterior maxillary impaction surgery for the openbite.
If you'd like to PM me any photos (and a headfilm if possible) I'd be happy to offer an opinion via PM.
Dr. S
It seems from your description that you bite could be fixed with two-jaw surgery: BSSO mandibuar advancement for your Class II overjet problem and posterior maxillary impaction surgery for the openbite.
If you'd like to PM me any photos (and a headfilm if possible) I'd be happy to offer an opinion via PM.
Dr. S
-Grad of UNC Ortho '92 (research centered around ceramic brackets)
Clo:
Take a few days, enjoy the holidays, then decide what the next course of action is. I agree with those who think that maybe its time to go to another country. Could it be that all the orthos who have treated you have the same set of theories to correct you problem? I know in this country(USA) there's two schools of thought on extractions. Some orthos seem to do extractions in a majority of the cases to relieve crowding while others use expanders and surgery to create more room. Maybe another country's orthos would have a different set of theories as for treatment.
Do take Dr. Rick up on his suggestion! I have read many of his postings and have been quite impressed with hs willingness to share his expertise.
I wish you the best. I know this shuouldn't have to be this hard.
Mike
Take a few days, enjoy the holidays, then decide what the next course of action is. I agree with those who think that maybe its time to go to another country. Could it be that all the orthos who have treated you have the same set of theories to correct you problem? I know in this country(USA) there's two schools of thought on extractions. Some orthos seem to do extractions in a majority of the cases to relieve crowding while others use expanders and surgery to create more room. Maybe another country's orthos would have a different set of theories as for treatment.
Do take Dr. Rick up on his suggestion! I have read many of his postings and have been quite impressed with hs willingness to share his expertise.
I wish you the best. I know this shuouldn't have to be this hard.
Mike
I wore braces (this time) for 1294 days or 3 years, 6 months and 17 days.
But who's counting?
Jaw Surgery June 1, 2009
Thanks for praying for me and thinking happy thoughts.
But who's counting?
Jaw Surgery June 1, 2009
Thanks for praying for me and thinking happy thoughts.
@iBorg : I think you have a point. There is some major difference between how
orthodontists in Europe (Belgium) work vis-Ã -vis the ones in the USA. I think here they
work a lot less "profoundly", using less hardware to achieve things. I experienced here all
they used were brackets, standard archwires and elastics. There are so many appliances
out there, but they seem not available here (for adults). I experienced twice how they
do things and then watch if it works or not. I hear a lot of members here speak about
a very well defined plan how to reach a predicted result. Their orthos seem to walk in a
straight line from start to finish. I have the impression orthos here jump from point to
point like a mad rabbit, hoping they once hit the end point. Anyway, I think our orthos
are way behind the ones in the US. Just my humble opinion and probably very biased due
to very bad experiences up to now.
orthodontists in Europe (Belgium) work vis-Ã -vis the ones in the USA. I think here they
work a lot less "profoundly", using less hardware to achieve things. I experienced here all
they used were brackets, standard archwires and elastics. There are so many appliances
out there, but they seem not available here (for adults). I experienced twice how they
do things and then watch if it works or not. I hear a lot of members here speak about
a very well defined plan how to reach a predicted result. Their orthos seem to walk in a
straight line from start to finish. I have the impression orthos here jump from point to
point like a mad rabbit, hoping they once hit the end point. Anyway, I think our orthos
are way behind the ones in the US. Just my humble opinion and probably very biased due
to very bad experiences up to now.
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invisagirl
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:27 pm
- Location: Colorado
Clo-
What Dr. Rick said in his post is exactly what I had done (plus widening of the upper). My lower was advanced 8 mm but it was not to correct an overjet (I didn't have one). In my case the auto-rotation of the lower when the upper is moved was not enough to create a "good" bite so the lower was advanced (and my surgeon created a really nice chin for me at the same time through genioplasty). I didn't want to accept that all this "work" needed to be done to create a good bite (and it seemed very self-centered to do it) but it was totally worth it. My surgeon said I had the "Cadillac" of jaw surgeries. The difference is amazing as my bite and appearance are still changing 6 months after surgery.
What Dr. Rick said in his post is exactly what I had done (plus widening of the upper). My lower was advanced 8 mm but it was not to correct an overjet (I didn't have one). In my case the auto-rotation of the lower when the upper is moved was not enough to create a "good" bite so the lower was advanced (and my surgeon created a really nice chin for me at the same time through genioplasty). I didn't want to accept that all this "work" needed to be done to create a good bite (and it seemed very self-centered to do it) but it was totally worth it. My surgeon said I had the "Cadillac" of jaw surgeries. The difference is amazing as my bite and appearance are still changing 6 months after surgery.
Did you discuss this exact method with the current ortho? What did they say?@smile2006 : of course there is a solution. Making my overjet and class 2 more "pure".
It would involve holding the upper front teeth, flare them and move all (pre) molars
forward. And hold the lower molars and move all premolars and front teeth backwards.
This would create a very clear and nice class 2 with a big overjet. Once the BSSO
would be done, then about all teeth would occlude well. And it would result in a
very nice profile and lower lip support. Only the upper molars would need to be
intruded, to close the bite. Now the only issue is to find an ortho who will do this
for me. Or maybe I should do it myself.
After all this time, I forgot, did you even start with an open bite before you were braced?
I hope you find some answers soon. I feel so sorry for your situation. How incredibly frustrating. I was under the impression that this new ortho had all the answers, now they are backpedaling. Whats going on?
Top Braces June 2004
Bottom Braces November 2004
Debanded January 2007
Bottom Braces November 2004
Debanded January 2007
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science teacher
- Posts: 428
- Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:31 pm
- Location: kansas
clo
I just feel awful about your news.
I love my oral surgeon and ortho. If you come to the us I'd have a room for you.
I think Dr. Rick would really be able to steer you in a good direction.
Kim
I love my oral surgeon and ortho. If you come to the us I'd have a room for you.
I think Dr. Rick would really be able to steer you in a good direction.
Kim
SARPE 11/23/06
Expansion over 12/18/06 8.5mm
Brace day tops 1/15/07
Brace day bottoms 3/19/07
all expansion devices removed 9/19/07
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samantha_lou
- Posts: 240
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:49 pm
- Location: Bellevue, WA
- Contact:
Hi all,
thanks for all the nice words. What a great group you are all !
@smile2006 : I did indeed post my pre-braces pics and how things looked 2 months
ago to Dr. S (Rickysa). He is the best, took some time to study them. He answered
by saying a treatment like you had would help a lot. Upper jaw surgery to close the
bite and lower jaw surgery to correct the class 2 bite. After making the overjet
even worse by maybe extracting 2 lower premolars. He made very clear that he does
not agree that I will never be able to get a good occlusion. So he knows what to do,
I know what to do and what can be done, but don't have an ortho here who will be
able to help me. So, I am so stuck right now that even after a good (well some) sleep
I think the only solution for me right now is to forget about all this and accept that
the treatment failed and that I will have to live with it. Sounds desperate, I know.
@Chris : I did propose this to my second ortho the moment I left him. I can't be
sure, but he looked like "wow, this patient knows his stuff". Where I go now, I need
to be much more "low profile". I don't discuss much ... yet. But I plan to mail her to
really express my disappointment. I hope I don't burn my bridges.
About the start and my open bite. Funny that you ask, because this is something
that made me really angry yesterday, and still does. No, there was no open bite
then. Yes, there was, she said yesterday. Look at your impressions that were made
then. You see that there is some space between the lower and upper teeth almost
everywhere. OF COURSE, I thought, my bite is in a class 2 relationship of a complete
molar width on the left and half a width on the right side. All teeth hit 'top to top". So
no wonder there are spaces. Jesus. She has X-rays dating from the start and new
ones made some weeks ago. She could measure if I was right telling the open bite
was created due to all those elastics extruding my molars. Funny (sarcasm), that
is now exactly some measurement she didn't do. Arrrggghhh.
I don't know what. She said earlier that my teeth are in great condition, so braces are
still possible. My bones can handle it too, she said later on. And yesterday she
said some things are wrong with my jaw joints, but it is an issue of deformation
that was always there, rather than wear from braces and elastics. So my joints will be
able to accept braces too. So, all looks ok to continue the treatment ... but they won't ...
thanks for all the nice words. What a great group you are all !
@smile2006 : I did indeed post my pre-braces pics and how things looked 2 months
ago to Dr. S (Rickysa). He is the best, took some time to study them. He answered
by saying a treatment like you had would help a lot. Upper jaw surgery to close the
bite and lower jaw surgery to correct the class 2 bite. After making the overjet
even worse by maybe extracting 2 lower premolars. He made very clear that he does
not agree that I will never be able to get a good occlusion. So he knows what to do,
I know what to do and what can be done, but don't have an ortho here who will be
able to help me. So, I am so stuck right now that even after a good (well some) sleep
I think the only solution for me right now is to forget about all this and accept that
the treatment failed and that I will have to live with it. Sounds desperate, I know.
@Chris : I did propose this to my second ortho the moment I left him. I can't be
sure, but he looked like "wow, this patient knows his stuff". Where I go now, I need
to be much more "low profile". I don't discuss much ... yet. But I plan to mail her to
really express my disappointment. I hope I don't burn my bridges.
About the start and my open bite. Funny that you ask, because this is something
that made me really angry yesterday, and still does. No, there was no open bite
then. Yes, there was, she said yesterday. Look at your impressions that were made
then. You see that there is some space between the lower and upper teeth almost
everywhere. OF COURSE, I thought, my bite is in a class 2 relationship of a complete
molar width on the left and half a width on the right side. All teeth hit 'top to top". So
no wonder there are spaces. Jesus. She has X-rays dating from the start and new
ones made some weeks ago. She could measure if I was right telling the open bite
was created due to all those elastics extruding my molars. Funny (sarcasm), that
is now exactly some measurement she didn't do. Arrrggghhh.
Oh my, Chris, how well observed. That is what I thought too. Something has changed.now they are backpedaling
I don't know what. She said earlier that my teeth are in great condition, so braces are
still possible. My bones can handle it too, she said later on. And yesterday she
said some things are wrong with my jaw joints, but it is an issue of deformation
that was always there, rather than wear from braces and elastics. So my joints will be
able to accept braces too. So, all looks ok to continue the treatment ... but they won't ...