Back some squares ...

Message

#1 Post by **Clo** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:20 am

Hi,

I would not say back to square 1, but it is close to it. At my adjustment
yesterday, I didn't need to tell about my open bite getting more open again.
He stopped about all efforts to retract my uppers and is again, once more,
going to try closing my open bite. That means boxing elastics in the front
again, 4 of them. I need to wear these all the time. At night I need to
wear my class 2 elastics and headgear to avoid losing what was achieved
up to now concerning my overjet.

My ortho said that he probably won't be able to close my bite. So, again
this adjustment was not my best one at all. I also need to see a speech
therapist about my tongue thrust as soon as possible. My tongue is now
opening my bite and causing my overjet it seems. I find this confusing as
why would this happen now ? I didn't change my tongue habits and I didn't
have any open bite before I had braces. I have this little theory.
I think my first ortho opened my bite and now my tongue gets there all the
time. Like opening a door a bit and someone puts his foot in the opening.
You can't close the door anymore.
So I experience that the mistreatment by my first ortho has some serious
consequences. My second ortho did already everything to close my bite.
I had grinding of my molars and lots of boxing elastics and it is still not
enough ! I become desperate here ...

My adjustment started quite funny though. I hadn't said anything yet and
my ortho told me I would be a very good orthodontist. I was like uhhmm,
why ? I know this sounds short but mind you, I had my mouth full of those
Kobayashi hooks (elastic anchors) without cutted wires ... and some fingers
too. Because you have great insight in orthodontic matters he said.
Well, then maybe I'll need to treat myself in the future. I think I know the
way. But it is so difficult telling this to my ortho. How on earth can I tell him
what to do without offending him ? Arghh, this is so frustrating ...

#2 Post by **LoobyLou** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:06 pm

Aww Clo I really feel for you. You really are going through it aren't you!

I really hope these issues get resolved for you soon and you have the bite you deserve!

Hang in there, it WILL be worth it.

LoobyLou xx

(Ps for the record I think so far your teeth are looking great).

#3 Post by **smile2006** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:29 pm

I have very sympathically read your posts. I know how frustrated you must be. Have you considered upper jaw surgery to close your bite? I know it is not what most would want to do but you have been through so much with all this. I look at your pictures and see the same type of bite I had (only you have much nicer teeth

) a month ago prior to having upper and lower jaw surgery to surgically correct my open bite. Instantly, the open bite was gone for the first time in my life. In fact when I looked at my teeth the first time after surgery, I couldn't beleive it. The process of recovery hasn't been too bad either. I was very functional after about two weeks with everything but talking loudly and for extended periods of time. If you could get by with only upper jaw only it would be an easier and less lengthy process than what you are going through. I'm not trying to be hurtful but I hear/read the frustration in your posts and I only hope that you can get to the satisfaction of a closed bite. Have you seen an oral surgeon and discussed whether orthoganathic surgery is a viable option for you? I guess, having expereinced such surgery, it would seem to be a quick and easy fix but of course I don't know all the details. Good luck in your process wherever it may lead.

#4 Post by **Clo** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:13 am

Thanks for the replies.

@ smile2006 : you can have an open bite due to skeletal issues. Then it
is obvious that surgery can help a lot. My open bite however is dental, and
was caused by mistreatment by my first ortho. So it would be a bad idea
to set teeth wrongly and then correct it all by having jaw surgery. It feels
like adding 2 errors and hoping they'll neutralize each other. I hope that
orthodontic treatment will be able to undo the first error.

Some hopeful news though. These boxing elastics seem to work a bit. I
noticed my bite is closing a bit. But only if I keep the elastics in. If I take
them out to eat, I notice a relapse after only say 30 minutes. Makes me
think at what my ortho said several times, that he fears his corrections will
not be stable. But he never says what will be needed then. Maybe braces
for life

?

#5 Post by **smile2006** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:42 am

Hello Again-

Yes, I realize that open bites can be skeletal or dental. Mine was skeletal BUT in my late teens I had braces only to see the results fail because the problem was skeletal (but treated as dental at that point). However, back then (mid-1980s) jaw surgery wasn't the option it is today. I guess I would hate for you to misdiagnosed from the "get-go" with the origin of the bite problem. The lack of stability is what I expererienced big time in my first go around with orthodontic work (I went the full round with headgear and everything). My teeth looked great when my braces came off the first time and then the skeletal imbalances pulled them out of alignment over the course of about 8 years. I eventually couldn't take it anymore and sought orthodontic care again when it became clear to me (from both the surgeon and the ortho) that surgery was needed.. If you teeth are fighting correction so strongly (close back, front opens, close front, back opens) then they underlying issue may in fact be skeletal (overgrowth in the vertical dimension of the upper jaw which prevents a vertical overlap of the top teeth with the bottom teeth from being acheived). I still would suggest a consult with an oral surgeon just to have him/he evaluate the situation. They have all sorts of interesting ways to measure and look at the problem that the ortho doesn't. Take all x-rays you have with you....day one especially so they can look at your bite and jaw struture from its first position. Again, only trying to help. Like I said, been there with trying correct only to see everything fall apart so I know the frustration

!

#6 Post by **Joanna20** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:36 pm

Hey clo, I think ur teeth look fantastic even with the open bite and all.
The elastics thing must be a bit bothering, but hang in there!
Joanna

#7 Post by **Clo** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:06 am

Thanks all for your kind words.

@ smile2006 : I didn't know your case before. That is because I never
find the time to read all the boards, so I tend to skip the "Oral Surgery"
section. Anyway, your posts here are very much appreciated. I will recall
them both when I see my ortho next time and see what results the present
elastic configuration gave me. So, thank you very much for giving me this
information. I think my case seems to be a borderline case. Correctable
by a good orthodontist and just not bad enough to need surgery. At least
that is what I still hope. I'll wear all these elastics really full time till my
appointment I have the first of September. I hope by then I will know
more ...

#8 Post by **smile2006** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:24 am

Clo-

Keep posting to let us know how and where things are going. Tuck the surgery thing back there as an option. In fact, I'd openly ask your ortho if surgery is an option in your case. Be honest and start the conversation. You look like you do tons of research and there is a lot on the web. The process really wasn't that bad plus surgery tends to be a very stable correction. I said I willing to go the surgery route if I knew I wouldn't end up at an orthodontist again after 5-10 years. Both the OS and ortho assured me surgery was stable (pending no accidents or anything involving the face/jaw). Sure beats braces for life in my book. Hope you find the fix that works for you.

#9 Post by **Pirate Wench** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:58 am

You are having a really hard time aren't you? I wish there was something we could do for you, but I guess our well wishes will have to do.

Good luck with your crazy elastic config. It is amazing that you can remember how to get that all together. You said you are going to wear it all the time......how are you going to eat? I know you said you had been taking them out for eating and could see a relaps within 30 min. Can you eat with those in your mouth? You may to live on a liquid diet for a while.

Keep your chin up......hopefully your situation will get corrected soon.

#10 Post by **Clo** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:02 am

No, I can not eat with them in. Because there is no way to get the food into
my mouth. Because I can only open my mouth about half an inch when I
wear these elastics. And because they would snap all the time. So, I take
them out only to eat and to clean. Apart from this, I wear them all the time.
And yes, everytime I want to place them back in after I cleaned, I see a
significant relapse. Maybe this relapse will get smaller within some days or
weeks.

#11 Post by **smile2006** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:55 pm

I sure feel for you with those elastics Clo. I think the worst part of my surgery was having my mouth tightly banded shut like that for a week to limit jaw function and train my new bite. I couldn't remove mine at all so I had to eat liquids with a syringe. I was really glad when that week was over. After that first week it was ligher elastics, one on each side in a trianagle formation. So you are to be commended for dealing with that small amount of jaw opening and all those elastics daily! Don't know how you manage it. Hope the desired results occur quickly for your sake