yes.. we hear them all the times, we should all trust out orthodontics 100%.. but at the end of the day , they also want our $ too. Here something that been bothering me.
myth or true case 1# your orth might lenghten your treatment to match your payment plan??. lets say it will only take me 1.5 years to complete my treatment but he will lenghten to 2 years just because i signed a 2 years payment plan. probably he dont want to me to suddently leave after my treatment and leaving him a unpay 5 months, i know most of us are honest people but this is one of those "just in case".
myth or true case2# we also have this long debate where self-adjust brace (damon ) is faster then traditonal brace. Some said their orth told them it isn't really faster .. maybe just a month or two. When in fact maybe it dose make a lot faster (6-8 months) and this is just another way for orth to say " I'm not train with is tools, but I dont want to lose your business, so I'll just say it'll make no different"
anyway again I'm not saying its true, but is possible and hopefully someone can prove my thoery wrong=)
things that your orths dosen't want you to know!@!
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Ilovetosmile232
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stRaighteR
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lol i wouldn't trust them 100%...they're human and therefore can make mistakes...but i trust them a lot more than dentists...i just can't seem to trust dentists...are half the cavities they diagnose actually cavities?
but with regard to myth or true case #1, i've heard of people whose orthos were finished with their treament, but the ortho refused to take off their braces until they had paid the full amount...i guess it's to make sure that the patient doesn't disappear...
myth or true case #2... there is no proof that they actually are faster or take the same amount of time as other alternatives...or is there?
but with regard to myth or true case #1, i've heard of people whose orthos were finished with their treament, but the ortho refused to take off their braces until they had paid the full amount...i guess it's to make sure that the patient doesn't disappear...
myth or true case #2... there is no proof that they actually are faster or take the same amount of time as other alternatives...or is there?
No 1: what's the point of extending treatment if the job is done? As someone who runs a consulting company, my priority is to complete the work on time so that I can move onto the next job. There is no benefit in going into overtime. It just doesn't make good business sense.
No 2: I thought someone killed the "damon vs ceramic vs traditional brackets" debate. My ortho offers traditional, ceramic, lingual and invisalign. I have a mix of the first three. There has never been any discussion of whether one or the other system would require longer or shorter treatment times.
No 2: I thought someone killed the "damon vs ceramic vs traditional brackets" debate. My ortho offers traditional, ceramic, lingual and invisalign. I have a mix of the first three. There has never been any discussion of whether one or the other system would require longer or shorter treatment times.
This is not out of the realm of possibility. That is how I look at it.
Someone on the board *just* said that there ortho would not take their braces off until they were done paying. So I have to believe it does happen.
Also, my daughter, it seems the ortho at one year said she has another year to go and I'm like Huh? Her teeth are totally straight and have been for awhile! I don't even think he wants to entertain any kind of an estimate beside - 2 years....
BTW, I don't take her to the ortho, her Dad does who doesn't wear braces and doesn't have a clue what to ask or what to look for.
Someone on the board *just* said that there ortho would not take their braces off until they were done paying. So I have to believe it does happen.
Also, my daughter, it seems the ortho at one year said she has another year to go and I'm like Huh? Her teeth are totally straight and have been for awhile! I don't even think he wants to entertain any kind of an estimate beside - 2 years....
BTW, I don't take her to the ortho, her Dad does who doesn't wear braces and doesn't have a clue what to ask or what to look for.
Braced on 8/05 - Braces off 12/06
Mid Forties!
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stRaighteR
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Ask to see an intraoral camera or the radiograph next time. They will be happy to show you the evidence of decay clinically. And remember that a cavity is about 20% smaller on an x-ray in comparison to when you get in there. If you don't believe them then don't get the filling/crown/onlay. Then in a couple to many years see what happens and if they were right.lol i wouldn't trust them 100%...they're human and therefore can make mistakes...but i trust them a lot more than dentists...i just can't seem to trust dentists...are half the cavities they diagnose actually cavities?
Do you have a hard time trusting the car mechanic too? Another profession where people are told things are broken but may not notice a difference.
And remember when making generalizations that an Ortho is also a Dentist.
I too believe everything I read on the internet or hear from people. It is not human nature to ever stretch the truth or change details from a story, especially if it didn't go as the person wanted or originally planned.hey KK, one of the people actually told me that the ortho said their treatment was finished, but he wouldn't take them of until their final payment had been made...
Regards,
Rory
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Way Too Old For This
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When reading stories like this I always remind myself that we are only hearing one side of the argument.
The person who claims their ortho won't take off their braces until final payment is made, and admits that the treatment is finished......do we know if this person is current with his/her payments?
Also, treatment time is a team effort between ortho and patient. I would think it would be impossible to quantify whether one bracket worked faster than another. There are so many variables, one of which, the patient's compliance. Do we know if the patient really follows the ortho's instructions for wearing elastics, etc.?
I have had doctors and dentists that I don't completely trust, so I have found new ones. I do trust my ortho 100%, I think he is brilliant. And that is a great feeling. There are three orthos in the office I go to and I see all of them, and there is one whose methods I like the best, but I trust them all. And I try my hardest to comply with the instructions I am paying them to tell me to do.
The person who claims their ortho won't take off their braces until final payment is made, and admits that the treatment is finished......do we know if this person is current with his/her payments?
Also, treatment time is a team effort between ortho and patient. I would think it would be impossible to quantify whether one bracket worked faster than another. There are so many variables, one of which, the patient's compliance. Do we know if the patient really follows the ortho's instructions for wearing elastics, etc.?
I have had doctors and dentists that I don't completely trust, so I have found new ones. I do trust my ortho 100%, I think he is brilliant. And that is a great feeling. There are three orthos in the office I go to and I see all of them, and there is one whose methods I like the best, but I trust them all. And I try my hardest to comply with the instructions I am paying them to tell me to do.
Wired on Sep 16, 2005, left canine exposed on Oct 5, 2005, at 52 years old.
A long time ago, we moved into our current house which is about 20 miles from the place we used to live. Since my dentist was now 20 miles away, and I had little children to contend with, I decided to instead see a dentist who was closer to home. A neighbor recommended this particular dentist, so I became her patient. I also convinced my husband to see her as well.
Well, it turns out that this dentist was trying to replace all of our fillings for no reason. She kept trying to upsell me on some expensive and unnecessary things, such as continual fluoride treatments, sealants, etc.
After a while, I just had enough. I didn't have time or patience to search for another honest dentist. I decided to just drive 20 miles to see my original dentist, whom I felt l I could trust and who has never tried to upsell me on anything.
As for orthos -- I think the best thing is to have enough information about your treatment. If you understand "why" he is doing things a certain way, you may understand why your treatment needs to be longer or why you need to wear elastics, etc.
From what I understand, the benefits of Damon brackets are more than just a shorter treatment time. There are differences in the way the brackets operate to apply force to your teeth. According to the Ormco people, it can actaully help to build bone, possibly making extractions unnecessary. Of course, it depends on the individual.
I think it's a bit harsh for an ortho to refuse to take off your braces until you pay the balance of your bill -- unless you have a bad credit record or some other reason for him not to trust you. I guess everyone has their policies. Perhaps this is something you should ask up front, just in case.
Most ortho payment plans are set up to coincide with the length of your treatment, and usually it is a fairly accurate estimate. Usually treatment winds up being longer, not shorter to the extent that you'd suddenly have to pony up $1,000 to get your braces off. Could it happen to someone? Sure, it could. In that case, it's between you and your ortho to work it out. When you start treatment, you do sign a contract. I suppose if your braces came off and you had several hundred dollars outstanding which you refused to pay, your ortho could take you to a collection agency or to court.
Just my 2cents.
Well, it turns out that this dentist was trying to replace all of our fillings for no reason. She kept trying to upsell me on some expensive and unnecessary things, such as continual fluoride treatments, sealants, etc.
After a while, I just had enough. I didn't have time or patience to search for another honest dentist. I decided to just drive 20 miles to see my original dentist, whom I felt l I could trust and who has never tried to upsell me on anything.
As for orthos -- I think the best thing is to have enough information about your treatment. If you understand "why" he is doing things a certain way, you may understand why your treatment needs to be longer or why you need to wear elastics, etc.
From what I understand, the benefits of Damon brackets are more than just a shorter treatment time. There are differences in the way the brackets operate to apply force to your teeth. According to the Ormco people, it can actaully help to build bone, possibly making extractions unnecessary. Of course, it depends on the individual.
I think it's a bit harsh for an ortho to refuse to take off your braces until you pay the balance of your bill -- unless you have a bad credit record or some other reason for him not to trust you. I guess everyone has their policies. Perhaps this is something you should ask up front, just in case.
Most ortho payment plans are set up to coincide with the length of your treatment, and usually it is a fairly accurate estimate. Usually treatment winds up being longer, not shorter to the extent that you'd suddenly have to pony up $1,000 to get your braces off. Could it happen to someone? Sure, it could. In that case, it's between you and your ortho to work it out. When you start treatment, you do sign a contract. I suppose if your braces came off and you had several hundred dollars outstanding which you refused to pay, your ortho could take you to a collection agency or to court.
Just my 2cents.
I'm the owner/admin of this site. Had ceramic uppers, metal lowers ~3 years in my early 40's. Now in Hawley retainers at night!
Personally, I would never pay based upon time frame. Its like paying a subcontractor "hourly" rather than on a specific amount contract basis. If I couldn't find an ortho who would agree to a specific amount no matter how long it took, I would go shopping for a new ortho. My treatment is taking longer than anticipated and I'm hoping that makes the ortho concentrate harder on making things work and get me "outta there". 
And I have experienced dentists like Lynn had, the ones that make a long list of things he felt should be done (like replacing all amalgam fillings with composite). I just move on.
Oh man, I've got a toothache, I've got to lay down.
And I have experienced dentists like Lynn had, the ones that make a long list of things he felt should be done (like replacing all amalgam fillings with composite). I just move on.
Oh man, I've got a toothache, I've got to lay down.
Top Braces June 2004
Bottom Braces November 2004
Debanded January 2007
Bottom Braces November 2004
Debanded January 2007
Pay off issue:
I paid my ortho off early - just in case
I have a feeling if you have a bad record of making your payments,etc., they won't take your brackets off.
The majority are not going to do that. But I do think that some may do it if they think their patients are flaky. Also if they have been burned alot in the past, they would be stupid to continue to burn themselves... don't you think?
Bracket issue:
I still think we should put the bracket thing to rest forever with an FAQ. And I STILL think that if you think logically about the differences between a self ligating bracket and a traditional bracket with the traditional bracket having rubber holding the archwire in and a self ligating having metal holding the wire in-- (The wire in the bracket moves the tooth don't forget not the wire itself - it takes both)- that the metal holding the wire into the bracket by force would be more efficient than a piece of rubber, particularly if the desired force is outward against the rubber/metal to make the arch wider. Also the self ligating bracket creates a perfect square around that wonderful archwire for better control whereas when you think about self ligating you have sort of the most part of a square with one rubber side, which doesn't form a soid square wall - - there is give there. It makes logical sense. Not sure why people can't wrap their heads around it. And again, I will believe what my ortho says which is that it will take a few months off my treatment.
And about orthos giving up on them-- My ortho got a new assistant and she had trouble getting my doors open. I have never had trouble before which tells me that his other assistant knew what she was doing. There just happens to be this training issue, unfortunately with these brackets and people tend to give up and go back to their old tried and true ways.
I paid my ortho off early - just in case
I have a feeling if you have a bad record of making your payments,etc., they won't take your brackets off.
The majority are not going to do that. But I do think that some may do it if they think their patients are flaky. Also if they have been burned alot in the past, they would be stupid to continue to burn themselves... don't you think?
Bracket issue:
I still think we should put the bracket thing to rest forever with an FAQ. And I STILL think that if you think logically about the differences between a self ligating bracket and a traditional bracket with the traditional bracket having rubber holding the archwire in and a self ligating having metal holding the wire in-- (The wire in the bracket moves the tooth don't forget not the wire itself - it takes both)- that the metal holding the wire into the bracket by force would be more efficient than a piece of rubber, particularly if the desired force is outward against the rubber/metal to make the arch wider. Also the self ligating bracket creates a perfect square around that wonderful archwire for better control whereas when you think about self ligating you have sort of the most part of a square with one rubber side, which doesn't form a soid square wall - - there is give there. It makes logical sense. Not sure why people can't wrap their heads around it. And again, I will believe what my ortho says which is that it will take a few months off my treatment.
And about orthos giving up on them-- My ortho got a new assistant and she had trouble getting my doors open. I have never had trouble before which tells me that his other assistant knew what she was doing. There just happens to be this training issue, unfortunately with these brackets and people tend to give up and go back to their old tried and true ways.
Braced on 8/05 - Braces off 12/06
Mid Forties!
Mid Forties!
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stRaighteR
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:01 pm
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I'm sorry RoryAsk to see an intraoral camera or the radiograph next time. They will be happy to show you the evidence of decay clinically. And remember that a cavity is about 20% smaller on an x-ray in comparison to when you get in there. If you don't believe them then don't get the filling/crown/onlay. Then in a couple to many years see what happens and if they were right.
I didn't mean it in a bad way...and I sure didn't mean to offend anyone...I just was speaking my mind at that point of time, but i'm sorry...I'll think before I type next time...I did ask him to show me the cavities and he said they cannot be seen on an x-ray because they're so small...and he said that on the introral camera that they will simply look like stains...
Once again, I did not mean anything by what I said...and I never said that I believed it...I was just trying to show Ilovetosmile232 that it could possibly happen...If it actually did or did not happen, I am not too sure...As someone else said, it's only one side of the story...The person may actually have had bad credit, or did something that caused the ortho to doubt them...or the ortho may have had bad experiences in the past with persons not paying the full amount and disappearing...
I too believe everything I read on the internet or hear from people. It is not human nature to ever stretch the truth or change details from a story, especially if it didn't go as the person wanted or originally planned.
I know now what they mean when people say that their face got hot from embarassment, because mine sure did... I'm sorry...
Ok about with-holding debanding until payment is made I think that maybe that person was talking about the same thing I have.
In my contract I signed that my estimated time was 20 months ao therefore my payments were spread out through 20 months. It then says that if the treatment ends before the estimated time that a "balloon" payment of the balance left would be due before molds for retaining devices were made and before debanding. But the CATCH is further down it does say that any damage done to the teeth due to prolonged treatment because of non-payment is not the ortho's responsiblity.
I can't see them actually missing that estimate by so far that I would owe more than a couple of payments though . I would hope his 20 years of experience would help him out at guessing lol
In my contract I signed that my estimated time was 20 months ao therefore my payments were spread out through 20 months. It then says that if the treatment ends before the estimated time that a "balloon" payment of the balance left would be due before molds for retaining devices were made and before debanding. But the CATCH is further down it does say that any damage done to the teeth due to prolonged treatment because of non-payment is not the ortho's responsiblity.
I can't see them actually missing that estimate by so far that I would owe more than a couple of payments though . I would hope his 20 years of experience would help him out at guessing lol
Regarding the payment issues: I will be getting my braces off in a month, 5 months earlier than the estimated treatment time. Because my treatment is not yet payed off in full, at my next appointment (impressions for retainers), I was asked to bring several post-dated cheques (one for each of the 4-5 months I would have had left) that will pay off the balance.
I suppose this is their way of ensuring that I don't grab my retainers and run! But it is still the regular payment plan that I've had since the start of treatment... I'm just giving in the cheques ahead of time.
I suppose this is their way of ensuring that I don't grab my retainers and run!
But it is still the regular payment plan that I've had since the start of treatment... I'm just giving in the cheques ahead of time.
In my case I paid almost half down and put the rest on a payment plan of 30 months which is my estimated treatment time. I doubt that my ortho will stretch my treatment until my balance is paid off for one reason...
I don't mail my payment or pay my monthly bill in person. It is automatically withdrawn from my checking account. I can't stop payments until the 30 months have ended . If I can ,I will try to have it paid off at least 6 months early.
I don't know about dentists saying that you have a cavity when you actually don't,however one dentist I went to told me that I had a cavity in my front tooth. She pointed it out on the x-ray and I could not see a thing.She kept pointing to it and even enlarged the digital x-rays. Everything looked superclear but I could not see it. I went to another dentist and she had x-rays taken of my teeth and did NOT see or mention a cavity in my front tooth. I did see other cavities she was showing me on the xrays. I have an appt in 3months and I'm going to ask her if she sees this so called cavity in my front tooth. There are no different color spots,cracks,chips or tiny hole on my front teeth ... So if its in my front tooth it developed from the inside out?
Gennel
I don't mail my payment or pay my monthly bill in person. It is automatically withdrawn from my checking account. I can't stop payments until the 30 months have ended . If I can ,I will try to have it paid off at least 6 months early.
I don't know about dentists saying that you have a cavity when you actually don't,however one dentist I went to told me that I had a cavity in my front tooth. She pointed it out on the x-ray and I could not see a thing.She kept pointing to it and even enlarged the digital x-rays. Everything looked superclear but I could not see it. I went to another dentist and she had x-rays taken of my teeth and did NOT see or mention a cavity in my front tooth. I did see other cavities she was showing me on the xrays. I have an appt in 3months and I'm going to ask her if she sees this so called cavity in my front tooth. There are no different color spots,cracks,chips or tiny hole on my front teeth ... So if its in my front tooth it developed from the inside out?
Gennel
At least some of you have dentists who take the time to show you that kind of stuff. I've never seen a X-ray from my dentist or anything. He would just tell me I needed fillings and then book me in so he could get his money.
Three of the fillings I had in my time with him came back, including one on my front tooth. I don't know if he just didn't cover enough area or what, but it was only months (if that) after the filling that I was back in to get them redone, at full charge to me.
He also is the one who pulled a baby tooth and then put in a retainer (with no spacer) to try and straighten my teeth. When the adult tooth came in, it had nowhere to go and ended up below the rest of my teeth. He always refused to remove the tooth too, said it was fine down there tearing my lip up.
I had to beg him for the referral to my ortho, who noticed the tooth right away and said it needed to go. As soon as he asked my dentist, he got full compliance.
Not that this adds to the argument of dentist versus ortho by any means. What this says is there are bad dentists out there, and probably bad orthos too.
I'm glad I found a great ortho and I plan to find jut as wonderful of a dentist to move to when ortho treatment is finished. Then I'll get my teeth filed down on the spots worn and destroyed by crooked teeth, get the yellow filling on my front tooth lightened and lighten my teeth altogether!
Three of the fillings I had in my time with him came back, including one on my front tooth. I don't know if he just didn't cover enough area or what, but it was only months (if that) after the filling that I was back in to get them redone, at full charge to me.
He also is the one who pulled a baby tooth and then put in a retainer (with no spacer) to try and straighten my teeth. When the adult tooth came in, it had nowhere to go and ended up below the rest of my teeth. He always refused to remove the tooth too, said it was fine down there tearing my lip up.
I had to beg him for the referral to my ortho, who noticed the tooth right away and said it needed to go. As soon as he asked my dentist, he got full compliance.
Not that this adds to the argument of dentist versus ortho by any means. What this says is there are bad dentists out there, and probably bad orthos too.
I'm glad I found a great ortho and I plan to find jut as wonderful of a dentist to move to when ortho treatment is finished. Then I'll get my teeth filed down on the spots worn and destroyed by crooked teeth, get the yellow filling on my front tooth lightened and lighten my teeth altogether!
