Multiple problems, 3+ years in braces and no end in sight

[JacquieMz]

Hi Everyone,
I have had my braces on for over 3 years now and my teeth are being moved back and forth with no improvement in sight. My OD says it is because I don't have enough molars to pull the teeth back with and wants to put in screws. Is this a really new procedure? Was it available 3 years ago when I started this mess? Is he just out of the loop in treatment options?

I had 3 teeth pulled the first year, one molar that I do have has been stressed to the point that he took the bracket off, but the tooth is gone, it is just a place holder now and after the braces come off it will have to be extracted, the other side of my mouth I have top molars, but only one lower molar, which is a root canal with a cap, which is wobbly at times when I get adjusted. I have had extreme bone loss during my pregnancies and my Periodontist says I am lucky my roots are long or my teeth would have fallen out already, so he is not sure implants would work for me anyway.

Have I just been led to believe that braces would work for me? I don't see an end in sight and he just keeps "testing" new stuff on me. By the time this is done I won't have any teeth left anyway.

Dentures are looking better every day.

Anyone else have extreme bone loss from peridontal problems that have braces on now? I always went to the dentist, always had cleanings and when I had the surgery to scale my roots, the perodontist was amazed that the root was smooth and clean, no built up scale that ususally causes the problems, he said it must be a genetic problem.

Anyway, anyone have any insight to my problems?

Thanks,
Jackie

PS: My main problem was just an overbite, my teeth were not crowded, but they had started to push outword from the jaw (from the bone loss).

[ohmyjaw]

Hi Jackie,

What causes this bone loss during pregnancy and it is ever reversible?

I am curious to know, if your teeth have shifted because of the bone loss, what is there to keep them in place after the orthodontics is completed? Is there enough bone to keep the teeth stable for the long term?

I wish I could be of more help, but I don't really know anything about bone loss problems.

But, regarding your orthodontist, I think you should get a second opinion and the sooner the better. When I was a kid I had an orthodontist who sounds a lot like yours; it was 3+ years of "try this, try that". But nothing ever got done.

So yes, maybe it is time to get a 2nd opinion.

I hope for all the best for you.

[Chris]

Well, I don't have the bone loss but I have 2 mini-screws! It is a newer procedure and has been used successfully for added torque. Nothing like more metal in your mouth.

I have the same problem with missing teeth and one that is painful to use, hence the mini implants. Its too soon for me to give you details on the success of them. I'll keep you posted.

Yeah, I know how you feel.

[Joanna20]

Hi, I can't really advice you on that because I don't have bone loss, I do have only 2 molars in my lower jaw and I don't think I will have any mini screws or anything, at least she hasn't told me anything about that.
Maybe a head gear or a bite plate would help?
How much have they improved since you got the braces put on?

Good luck,

Joanna

[JacquieMz]

Hi Jackie,

What causes this bone loss during pregnancy and it is ever reversible?

I am curious to know, if your teeth have shifted because of the bone loss, what is there to keep them in place after the orthodontics is completed? Is there enough bone to keep the teeth stable for the long term?

I wish I could be of more help, but I don't really know anything about bone loss problems.

But, regarding your orthodontist, I think you should get a second opinion and the sooner the better. When I was a kid I had an orthodontist who sounds a lot like yours; it was 3+ years of "try this, try that". But nothing ever got done.

So yes, maybe it is time to get a 2nd opinion.

I hope for all the best for you.

Hi Chris,
I am not sure what caused the bone loss either, but with every pregnancy (3 total) it got worse and worse and then the teeth that had always had an overbite started to move out in addition to the overbite, I have been under a periodontist care for years and never had tartar buildup which usually cause the perio problems that lead to bone loss, but he had said I could have the braces put on, but now I am doubting this, I have met other women with braces and mild bone loss, but none that have it to the extent I do, my gums have receded and even when the braces do come off it will look horrible (I am already called skelator (sp?)

I will let you know what happens, my next appointment is next week and I am going to lay down the law and get some resolution to my problem.

Jackie

[payoki]

I'm sorry to hear all your troubles...My case is similar to yours, I've been in braces for almost 17 months and my ortho quit so the new one just took out 4 premolars so I'm looking at another year or two...my gum is deteriorating and I'm not sure all my teeth will remain til the end of this treatment. I had a straight set of teeth except a slight overbite. I wish I never got the braces in the first place.

[Chris]

I wish I never got the braces in the first place.

[JacquieMz]

Well I went for my adjustment yesterday. The doc asked if I was ready to try the screws. I told him I had an appointment with a new Periodontist next week and wanted to see what he said about the condition of my bone first. He seemed kind of relieved, I think he just doesn't want to be the one to throw in the towel on my treatment, and is waiting for me to get fed up and quit on my own, or by another dentists/specialists referral. He told me again about all the problems involved with moving my teeth, no molars being the biggest of his complaints, and how when I had the bite turbos and my bite opened up and moved back, that all that progress had returned to its former position and is back to the way it was when we started 3+ years ago.

This has been an expensive, and time consuming, not to mention painful, uncomfortable and probably more damaging to my existing bones and teeth, and most likely was not the best route to take from the beginning, I am bringing a copy of my original x-rays from just before the braces went on and want him to evaluate if the braces did more harm than good.

I will let everyone know what happens next week, maybe my misfortune can be to someones advantage in making this type of decision of their own.

Jackie

[Chris]

Sorry things have turned out like this for you. Hope the mini screws work for you. Mine have been in 4 weeks now and I don't give them a second thought except my surgeon says to keep massaging the area with salt water so that the skin doesn't grow over it. Its too early to tell if anything is working, but having the "stressed tooth" anchored to the mini screw with wire hasn't caused it to stress more.

I hope they can work for you! Stay positive. Thats all I try to do and yes, it is difficult when you pass 2 years and counting (3 for you!)

[Chris]

I hate it when people are having a bad time with braces and do not think they will be able to get to a good result - it makes me so sad .

I agree, and I'm glad we get these posts as well, because it may help people weigh the pros and cons of getting braces. Most of the time everything works out, sometimes it doesn't...personally, I would like to hear ALL experiences so that I can make an informed decision. Same with surgeries of all kinds. Thanks for posting!

[JacquieMz]

Well I went for my second opinion from the Periodontist today. Things are looking grim. He said I needed to get the braces off ASAP, have at least 8 teeth pulled ( I only have 20) and that most likely when the braces come off my bottom teeth in the front will fall out, there is no bone holding one of them and the other 3 have very little bone.

I had set the appointment for an evaluation, X-ray and consult, had the first two, but when it came to the question/answer/solution portion of the consult he said he had a patient waiting (what the #$&! am I?) and couldn't talk long. Told me to get a general dentist in the area (we recently moved) and then figure out what I want to do and come back to see him. This was suppposed to be the visit to figure out what to do, instead I get shooed out without discussing options and solutions. What is a general dentist going to do, they won't even do my cleanings because of my tooth condition, now I have to see one to see the periodontist??? Is dentistry just a big scam?

I am really bummed, my dream (nightmare) is going to come true and the teeth will fall out when the braces come of, or shortly after, no if's and's or butt's about it and it looks like they should not have been put on in the first place, the bone was not there to work with from the beginning, so it seems that the tooth loss was accelarated with the braces.

Jackie

Jackie

[Chris]

Oh Jackie, how disheartening! I think I would go see another periodontist who will give you more time. One thing I did when I moved to a new area and needed an oral surgeon was to just call up dentists offices and ask for a referral. If a certain name came up again and again, there must be a good reason. Ask around town too. I wish you the best!

[JacquieMz]

I don't think I need to see another periodontist, I can tell by my own eyes what is going on in my mouth and the condition of the teeth, I have been living with this for 15+ years and have researched it, I was hoping that the braces would encourage bone growth, but it hasn't, it has just weakened the tooth roots more. I did the scaleings, root planeings, bone graphs ect. all to no avail, when the teeth in the upper front started to flair out that is when I went to the ortho, to see if they were worth saving and moving back into place, he consulted with my Perio (who is a good friend of his, wonder if that had anything to do with the referral?) and he gave the go ahead for the braces. I was at wits end then, and was planning to just pull them all and get dentures, but I was convinced that they were worth saving, but that was not the case it seems.

Like I said, he wants to pull at least 8 of them now, and work on the others ($$$$$) till his pockets are full in my opinion. He said a full set of implants would cost $80 - $100 thousand dollars, but like I said we didn't get to discuss fixed or removable dentures, or bridgeing the teeth that are good, so who knows? I am sure there are other options, but I am just sick and tired of all these "specialists" referring you to this one and that one, are there any that do all the things needed themselves? I hate going to 3 or 4 different docs who don't discuss what the other is doing.

Oh well, I will let everyone know what happens.....

[JacquieMz]

Jackie your comment ...

... I was hoping that the braces would encourage bone growth ...

concerns me, as my perio told me that bone loss is permenent and the only way that this can be corrected is with bone grafting surgery.



I don't know why ... but something just doesn't sound right about your treatment. I hope I'm wrong ... coz you are now at risk of loosing so many teeth!

Right on both, I was told that it would not make it worse, but with the moving of the teeth and the bone regrowing (like normal braces cause in healthy bone and gums) it would work, I don't think I was informed of the severity of my bone loss. Yesterday the Perio pointed out the bone and where it ended, there are shades of gray on the x-ray, and where he said the bone was, was below the gray line the other periodontist said was the bone line, so is the first perio stupid, or the second one wrong on where the bone is??? I am going to get my original x-rays from my ortho and the ones taken yesterday and go to another perio for another opinion. These conflicting opinions are really bothering me, I hate being at the mercy of someone who doesn't really have my best interest at heart and shuffles you back and forth with no one taking responsibilty for giving you good dental advice or treatment, they all seem not to want to be the one to give in and tell me the truth.

As for losing teeth, seems they are all doomed based on what was told to me yesterday, it is just the prolonging of them falling out that they want to play with. He sugested root planeing, bone graphs ect on the remaining teeth after the worst are pulled, but he didn't address the front teeth, the ones everyone sees, the ones that are going to fall out when the braces come off. I am supposed to go around toothless while he plays dentist with some of my teeth? I tried to talk to him about the front teeth, my husband was in the room with me and tried to ask questions and get answers but like I said, he had a patient waiting and couldn't talk, it really pisses me off, cost me $310 yesterday and I didn't even get any answers,. just more questions.

Are there any dental groups that have a general, perio, ortho and surgeon in the practice working together?

Jackie

[JacquieMz]

Karen,
I know it doesn't regrow bone, what I was referring to is exactly what you stated, but I haven't had that happen in my mouth, the teeth do not retighten, they remain loose and no firming is occuring, which leads to more movement and more trauma. Like I satated in an earlier post, the OD seems to be moving them back and forth, not into postion and then another position, ect to get to a final place in the jaw, which has weakened the teeth even more than before. This has been going on since April 2003.

Jackie