It is pouring (dis)information ...

[Clo]

Some extract of how my appointment with my ortho AND the jaw specialist went :

He : " I put some force on your jaw, now bite down."
There is an obvious click on the right side.
And a more silent one on the left.
He : " The jaw joint discs are not in the right place."
Me thinking : " Yeah, I have what they call anterior disc displacement with reduction."
Me thinking : " That I already know for some months now."
He : " Now I will feel your jaw muscles when you bite down."
He does the right side, then the left side.
Feels on the inside of my cheeks, near the last molars.
He : " You chew your food more on the left side."
Me thinking : " And that I know about my whole life."

Later on :

He : " A BSSO is not what is needed, it would make your profile too flat."
He refers to cases that need 15 mm of correction.
Me thinking : " But not all BSSOs are done only for profile improvement."
Me thinking : " I know people who got a great bite by only advancing the lower jaw a bit."

Oh, and I did not only think there a lot, I also said a lot.
The rest of the appointment was not interesting, I didn't learn anything new.
No, not correct, I did learn that they propose NOT to do the BSSO. And not only because
of the profile that does not need it, but also because it is perfectly possible to live
with a class 2 bite . Now about the open bite, being now again much worse than some
months ago. Know, they said, there are a lot of people out there that have open bites
and don't know this and have a perfect normal life .

Will they be able to start some - any - treatment ? Not before everything comes into a
stable position. But since I do not have proper retention, everything moves and everyday
I lose what was done in the past. So I have to wait many many months before they will see
me again. Only to know that almost nothing can be done ...

So,

I HAVE HAD IT. I WILL STOP THIS NONSENSE RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW.
My patience is legendary, but it is not endless. And I have now seen the end.

The lesson I want to share with you all :

Don't forget this. I know you may have some discomforts
and pain during your treatments. But know, you have at
least a treatment. One that will most probably lead to an
awesome result.

Clo, ...

[manglemouth]

Clo, I have only been a member for a little while now so I haven't been able to follow your story from the beginning, but I am so sorry to hear about all the problems you are encountering. One thing I want to add, I am apparently one of those people that have an open bite and dont' even know it...it's never bothered me until i was told that I have one. Now that I am aware of it and realize that I can't put my front teeth together, it's bothering me immensely though and I want it fixed. It is totally understandable that you want all your problems fixed too, no matter what they think may or may not be worth the hassle of fixing.

Whatever you decide to do, please stick around!

[Lisa65]

Clo I just don't know what to say - I feel so bad for you.

Massive hugs and warm and positive thoughts

Lisa xxxxx

[alexa]

Oh no. I'm so sorry, Clo.

[Lillers]

Just wanted to add my sympathy to the others' – that really does suck, Clo.

[platinum]

Sorry to hear.

I have visited another ortho forum, and there is stories how the treatments went wrong. Either the teeth returned back to their starting positions despite a good retention or the bite has changed to worse that it was before.
Actually, in that page people warn about the bad results of adult orthodontics,which is quite different to this forum...


Good lucK!!!

[Chris]

You have every right to be angry, Clo. This process can wreak havoc on your entire being when things don't go right. Thats when its time to step away for awhile and get your mind and life on other things. Maybe later on the solution will come. I know we all on this forum are hoping and praying that everything turn out well for you.

[smile2006]

Clo-

That so totally, totally stinks. I almost sent you a PM the other day because I was wondering how you were doing. Did they tell you how long have to wait for things to settle? Will they consider any surgery after settling? i sure hope so for your sake. If not come to the US, we welcome you. My heart is with you

[Granola]

Clo, I am so, so sorry to hear that this is where you are right now, which is left in an unacceptable situation.

[Jillianleab]

Wow. Clo you have been through so much with your braces journey, and it is such a tragedy that you've had this sort of result. I am so sorry to hear of your frustrations and hope you are able to sort out the best option for yourself so you can be happy, even if only moderatley so. It is a shame you were unable to be helped by orthodontics and even worse that you are left in a worse condition now than when you started.

Best of luck to you.

[broochie]

Clo, I am so sorry things are going in such an awful way for you. Before you totally give up, are you REALLY not willing to give it a last go by trying to get a few consultations in nearby France ? There are some very good orthos and oral surgeons there and I could PM you some references if you are interested. I am wholeheartedly with you.

[invisagirl]

Oh Clo, I'm soooo sorry. I can totally understand why you are sooooo frustrated. Take a break, take a vacation, break some dishes, something to get yourself a break from all this stress. I'm just sooooo sorry for what your going through!

On a little more positive note I too, like Lucyloop, got extremely sick over a number of months years back and I keep getting dismissed by doctors. I had a horrible GP and although specialists could see that something was wrong (the GP thought it was all psychological) all they could do was say that whatever I had wasn't in their specialty. Things progressed to the point where I couldn't walk or see anymore. I pretty much thought that I was going to die from whataver I had. I researched the internet day and night trying to figure this out on my own because no one else was trying to help me. Well during a visit after I'd gotten out of the hospital I asked the GP if he could run some tests that I'd heard about. Sure enough the tests revealed what I had and I was on the road to wellness. Granted things aren't perfect and never will be but if I had given up I'd wouldn't be writing this message. I guess I'm saying that the road may be long (and its been pretty long for you up to this point!!!) but I still truly believe that things can work out for you some way, somehow but I know the frustration, disappointed, etc could be great and only you can decide if its worth it. I support you 100% either way! Just take a break from all this and then see how you feel. You've shown incredible resilency Clo, and your a role model on learning as much as you can and taking charge of your treatment. Best of luck with however you proceed!!!

[Clo]

Thanks for all those nice replies !

I have been thinking what I need to do now. And I don't know. But I am pretty close
to tell them I feel like they have given up my case. If they say that it is perfectly
possible to live with an overjet and an open bite, then this is saying orthodontics is
totally not necessary and can be trashed completely. Strange thing to say, especially
when an orthodontist says that. So, I am pretty close to send this mail that they don't
have to bother anymore, that I stop going there and/or that I stop trying to get a decent
treatment.
All I know right now is that orthodontics here in Belgium really really sucks. Be happy,
most of you, that you live in an area where you can get a much better and serious
treatment.

@manglemouth : yes, I want my bite fixed. Especially the open bite, that was
created because I had a bad treatment earlier and because it is now becoming
frighteningly bad.

@Meryaten : I was indeed pretty informed even before I started now more
than 3 years ago. It helped me seeing quickly what was going wrong, but it did
not prevent that ortho 1 and 2 made some major mistakes.

@smile2006 : first, I think you didn't see the pm I send you earlier this week.
They did not say when things will be settled. But this is something pathetic also.
I do not have proper retention. She cut off most of my Essix retainers, now they only
cover the front 6 teeth. All my open bite issues are caused by my (pre)molars. Now,
since these have no retention, they are "free to walk around". The jaw specialist kinda
said it could take years to have a final settling. Anyway, I am sure they want to wait a
very long time to even consider to start. But like I said, they said my profile does
not need a BSSO. They made a caricature of it, making weird faces and imitating
someone who needs a shift of 15 mm. As if there are only such cases. And forgetting
that shifts of 4 to 6 mm can create a much better bite. I thought they ware laughing
at me. And I didn't, still do not appreciate this. So, they said a BSSO is not what they
advise me. And a maxillary (1 piece) posterior impaction is not advised too, as it would
only cure my open bite for some time that would get worse again later on (their words !).
That is the most frustrating thing about this all. I have to wait for a long time, but yet
they now already say that about everything can't be done.

@Lucyloop : how can you say you are probably rambling on about a load of nonsense,
when you have had such a bad time ? No, on the contrary, thank you very very
much for sharing this here !

@invisagirl : also many thanks for sharing this. It is strange in some way that a
lot of doctors laugh when one says he has read about this or that on the net, but at
the same time sometimes one can only get some treatment after telling a doc that
maybe this or that is going on after having read about it on the net.

[Clo]

your docs are scared because your case already is a mess

Yes, I do agree. But then what kind of docs are they if they back off if things get
a bit difficult ?

the norm in Belgium is to be vastly more conservative about surgical intervention

I think so too. Plus I think orthodontics here still is somewhat considered as aesthetic
medicine. Not so long ago, this kind of medicine was not considered to be very serious.
I mean, our country is at the top of the world when it involves the classical healthcare.
But you are almost laughed at when you have a "beauty improving surgery". It is
changing now, but still.

your docs are even somewhat intimidated by your knowledge

I was very "low profile" during the first consultations. I was careful to only tell what
felt wrong or what was done, but tried never to go any further. Until I saw I achieved
... nothing. Only then I told what I thought could be done. So yes, I do hide it a lot,
only to show my cards when necessary. I know I might need a break, but I really
think my teeth don't need this. Without retention, my bite gets worse every week
and all the efforts of the past, time and money leak away.

@linda21 : yes I did pm Dr Rick several times. And he told I am right about everything
I said. I sent him some pics of my teeth before braces and how they are now. I have an
idea what can be done. What he did suggest was very much alike this idea. Too bad there
is an ocean between him and me.