Very upset

Message

#1 Post by **kirjax** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:16 pm

I went to my hygentist for my 6 month cleaning. This was my second time at this particular dentist office. The reason I am at this dentist is for insurance or should I say lack of insurance purposes. They offered a discounted yearly plan. Before this I had been going to the same dentist all my life.

So they do full records and xrays in Feb. - Right off the bat the dentist says I need to replace a filling. Then after it's all replaced she tells me that it was a deep filling and will eventually need a crown as well as the tooth adjacent to it. Knowing I do not have dental insurance I said, it's not an option. The teeth don't bother me and I'm not touching them. So all was well and I was on my way. Braces were fitted in May.

So I went yesterday for my 6 month. The hygentist cleaned my teeth really well (unlike the last time which was also a different hygentist). She said that I was doing really well w/ the cleaning but that I needed to watch staining. She gave me a 9 out of 10.

So the doctor comes in to examine my teeth. Right away he starts spilling off numbers. One by one by one picking and probing at my teeth. I stop him and say, "are you referring to fillings or cavities?" to which he replied, "cavitites" At this point I am completely bugging! By the time I left there I had 5 cavities and one spot that needs to be watched. I was furious. Six months ago I didn't have a damn cavity. They tried telling me that I had "weak" spots and now they're cavities. So why wouldn't you tell me this six months ago and wait until now??!! He told me I should up my flouride and suggested a prescribed bottle of toothpaste - retail cost? $25.00!!

I don't understand I brush my teeth 2,3, sometimes 4x a day depending on what I eat. I floss, rinse with listerine and floride 2x a day! I do not drink soda, coffee or eat candy. Once in awhile I'll have a glass of OJ or ice tea! I don't eat sugary things and if I do I keep my mouth clean.

When I was at my last dentist I didn't have a cavity for 8 years!!! And now I'm at a new dentist and they already want to crown my molars and fill 6 cavities?! I find it all a big too shady!

I feel like I am doing everything I can possibly do to keep a healthy smile and I can't win. She said some people are just "prone" to cavities! Well why offer me the toothpaste now, what's the point? Why even bother spending hours of my day cleaning my teeth if the end result is cavities.

So here is the bottom line. They said these cavities are really tiny - but I am thinking of second opinion and going back to my original dentist to see what they think? Could it hurt? I mean if I really don't have all these cavities I'll be saving $400-$600.00! I just find it hard to believe in this short span I've gotten this many cavities.

what are your thoughts.

#2 Post by **BlondieeAggiee** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:40 pm

I suggest finding a new dentist. Something similar happened to my friend in college. She sought a second opinion and it turned out she just had surface holes, not cavities. Surface holes can develop into cavities without proper care, but it sounds like you take pretty good care of your teeth.

#3 Post by **strugglebuggy** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:46 pm

I'd find another dentist and get another opinion. I took my son to my childhood dentist and he told me that he had 4 cavities. We went to have the first one filled and my son (who has an anxiety disorder) wouldn't let the dentist into his mouth. Not to mention that the dentist told us that he won't put metal fillings in children- I argued that I wasn't about to put bone colored fillings (which insurance doesn't cover past the front 6 teeth) in baby teeth that he's going to lose anyway. Good thing..... we took him to a pediatric dentist and I told him that my son has to have to teeth filled... the dentist did his exam and said "well, it's a miracle.... the cavities have magically disappeared."

So, definitely get another opinion!

#4 Post by **Miss Smiley** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:04 pm

My friend went through that... Luckily I have not and I feel bad to hear this about what Dentists are doing. HORRIBLE, shame on them for trying to make an extra buck off of nothing. Now my friend is stuck having all thes expensive veneers, crowns, and implants put in when all she really needed was ortho and whitening. This is costing her more than it would if she had ortho and veneers just on a few teeth on top. Poor gal, I really feel bad for people who go through this. Her dentist told her that her natural teeth wouldn't work well with ortho and advised her against it. Of course, she believed him because he's a professional.

#5 Post by **SandraJones** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:13 pm

Does this dentist receive some kind of subsidy for people who don't have insurance ? Because if he does, on the surface it sounds like he's trying to bilk some extra money by providing treatment you don't require.

Definitely seek the advice of another dentist before you have any more treatnents. Wow, I'd be pissed too.

And yah, some people are prone to having cavities but it seems like if you were that kind of person you wouldn't have been cavity free all of this time !

#6 Post by **SnowSara** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:32 pm

This kind of thing happened to me, and just as we always say how important it is to find an ortho you trust, your dentist is no different. I'm much happier now that I've found a dentist that reminds me of the one I grew up with: a family practice that is warm, caring, and honest. I went to some more "aesthetically inclined" dentists with new fangled equipment and LCD screens for every patient to watch, but just wasn't impressed with their manner. They made me feel like I was going to lose all my teeth for being a bad patient or something and I didn't deserve it at all.

#7 Post by **kirjax** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:00 pm

Thank you all for the advice. I think I am going to make a few phone calls tomorrow.

I am not saying that maybe I don't have a cavity or two but it really just seems questionable to have 5.

I thought the same thing after I left about them trying to "milk" money from me. Taking advantage of a young girl. That upset me but what really upset me was having to think about all the fillings I'd be left with (even though I opted for the more expensive white fillings). But I thought here I am trying to better my smile bc all these years the dentist have told me braces would not only broaden my smile but prevent gum disease and gingivitis as well as cavities! Now I am thinking all this work just feels like nothing. I don't want fillings everywhere. And now that I look back I feel as though this tooth that she refilled really didn't need to be filled at all. And I am thinking that if I had spots before and they thought I could get rid of them why didn't they offer me this $25.00 tube of toothpaste then instead of now that it's too late.

I tell you though my hygentist was very wonderful and kind. She was trying to console me and I kept telling her I just don't get it - she said some people don't ever brush and they'll never get a cavity and she said then their are people like you who do a wonderful job and still get them.

She did though mention about the way I brush my teeth. She told me to brush after every meal and snack

Today I've brushed 5x. And I am remembering to not brush so hard and to take my time.

I have my appointment for the filling as well as my adjustment on monday. I opted to fill only 2 cav. this time but hopefully the other dentist can see me before. If not I am going to go in and tell them to only do one and the others will have to wait.

#8 Post by **Supermax** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:25 pm

Just another voice to add to what other posters have mentioned. Definatley get a second opinion, this also happened to me. I used to go to my moms dentist and every single time I sat in that chair he said i needed a filling or two. My mouth is a mess of silver, which i hope to rectify sooner or later. It just got to a point that I decided to see another dentist...well my brushing habits have not changed but would you guess it I have not "needed" a filling for the last 8 years. The previous dentist also had the habit of booking a clean in one appointment and a dentist visit in another, he would not see you unless you had a clean, effectively making you pay for two appointments every time thank you very much!!!

#9 Post by **iBorg** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:37 am

Tasks to do TODAY.

1. CANCEL THE FILING APPOINTMENT.

2. Call your ortho and ask for recommendations concerning a dentist. If you have faith in them ask them to give you a list of three or five they would recommend.

3. Talk to your former dentist about coming back.

4. Call your insurance carrier and ask how they handle going to a dentist that doesn't take your insurance.

WHYs and Hows

1. They may want to charge you for less than 24 hours notice if you put it off. Your reason is you do have an ortho adjustment and you're not sure your jaws can tolerate both in the same day. I don't know when the first appointment was but less than a week turnaround from a cleaning to having a cavity filled could be a sign of either a slow or desperate office.

2. My general dentist I had prior to ortho and my orthodontist don't get along. I also was uneasy about the treatment my general dentist wanted to perform. I asked her for recommendations and she replied that was a hard question. She then asked did I prefer male or female. I prefer female as most females have a manner I prefer. She then gave me one name. The practice isn't as "warm and fuzzy" as the previous but I've got excellent care. My general dentist will even do the cleanings if I schedule her.

3. You were happy with your previous dentist. Explain why you left (insurance billing practices). They should welcome you back.

4. Many insurance companies will let you go to a non participating dentist and let you submit bills after treatment. You will only be allowed the "usual and customary charge" but paying some of your treatment cost and being happy with it is a lot better than paying none of your cost and being unhappy with it.

I'm sorry to be so long winded but I fear you may be falling into a trap with a dentist that might not have your best interest at heart. I find it amazing that if you are caring for your teeth as you say and using fluoride rinses that you developed five cavities in this short of a time span. I also believe that if your hygiene was that bad your ortho would of said something.

Good luck.

Mike

#10 Post by **rsprouse** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:29 am

I personally believe that healthcare is a team sport and should involve a team approach. Your provider (Dentist in this case) has many years of training and experience under their belt and is hopefully skilled at what they do. If you are uncomfortable with the diagnosis there is absolutely nothing wrong with getting other opinions. Just don't be upset if you are charged a fee for the other opinions or hear something different than this Dentist.

In Dental School these days we are taught "minimally invasive dentistry". Meaning that you should remove as little tooth structure as possible to cure the disease (Dental Caries/cavities in this case). Remember that this is healthcare and there is no set guideline on treatment. There are only a couple absolutes with the human body and treatment of disease is not one of them. My opinion on when to treat a small lesion varies from other colleagues based on my personal experience and the research I have studied. I take a lot of variables into account that others may not. If a patient has a low caries risk and there is a small incipient lesion and only a couple other minor restorations I may decide to monitor it rather than restore it. But if a patient comes in with rampant decay or a mouth full of restorations, I know that they are prone to decay and it is better to treat it now because it will likely not get any smaller. My long winded point is that if you ask 5 dentist's to write you a treatment plan for your current restorative situation you could very well get 5 different options. One person may recommend inlays on all teeth, another a couple composite restorations, another to reevaluate in 6 months, etc. There is nothing wrong with any of the options, but the pro's and con's should be discussed with you so that you can make the decision. Ultimately it is your body. If they are not giving you options then ask for options. If you don't like their practice style or communication remember it is a free market and you can go where you please. If it were socialized medicine you may be stuck, but be happy you can select another clinician if you want. It may cost you more money but sometimes "you have to pay to play".

I personally don't think that they are trying to "line their pockets" or prescribe unneeded treatment. $400-600 in restorations is very minor to most practices. It is possible that the lesions became more evident this time in comparison to your last visit. Or they were so small they were overlooked before. Decay progresses over time and there is no set time in which it will take to progress to a point where it is diagnosed. Often times people are more upset that they are told they have a cavity because they feel embarrassed that they are doing something wrong. Or that they do not want to spend the money on something that is not causing them pain or problems at the moment when everything was fine a few months ago. It is human nature and there is nothing wrong with this. But you have to evaluate the situation clearly and decide why you feel this way, is it because your intuition says that this is not the best Dentist? Or are you upset that they told you that you have a cavity? You are doing the right thing by seeking preventative care to take care of yourself, please do not let your anger cloud this.

If the decay is there it is evident. You can ask to see a picture of the tooth with their intra-oral camera if they have one, or to have them point it out on a radiograph, etc. But if it is there it is easily shown. My goal is to have a patient base that thoroughly trusts my judgment and skills and if I recommend a treatment they put their trust in me. That is one of the largest compliments you can receive IMHO. That being said, I have 0 problem if a patient questions my diagnosis or treatment.

You can ask your Ortho for a referal to a new GP if you want another opinion or are uncomfortable with your current Dentist. But don't discount your family and friends. They are the best network of knowledge out there. Ask around at who has a good Dentist and give them a try.

And for all the post's about people surprised about developing 5 cavities in a short period when you take care of your teeth. It happens....but it is more likely a case that they were overlooked or undiagnosed for one reason or another previously.

Good Luck,
Rory

#11 Post by **Sparrow76** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:37 am

I think that's great advice. I'm beginning to learn that orthodontics is as much about educating yourself as finding a good ortho. It seems to be very rare that one ortho or dentist has all the answers. Some of them might have an alternate approach you don't agree with, some of them are just plain wrong, and still others are motivated by self-interest. Like others have said, it's important to be proactive in your decision, because it's your body. Find the approach that works for you!

#12 Post by **Miss Smiley** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:15 pm

Rory has brought up some good points. My dentists have been family until 6-7 years ago. I started to go to a dentist that my work was taking my work insurance. I would go see her for my 6 month cleanings and she would let me know if I had a restoration that might needed to be taken care of. She would always let me know and let me make a decision if I wanted to take care of it soon or wait until the last minute. I waited on one of them, and didn't have that fixed until after I started ortho, it was easier to access once my crowded teeth moved around. My current dentist is my brother's friend, he hasn't charged me once but I have insurance and I ask him to at the least charge my insurance his fees. He is really meticulous and lets me know when something needs to be fixed right away or can wait until the next appointment. So far, I have been lucky to have such non-family member dentists. They're considerate of my wallet and how long things can go before turning expensive.

My brother is an OS and he has some referrals from dentists who are trying to do TONS of work on a patient. I feel bad for them but we can't tell them that the veneers and whitening could probably wait until their extractions and implants are done, or are atleast done paying for them. Or people who will have just had it filled and then the dentist will tell them it needs to be pulled and implant placed instead of trying a root canal and crown.

It's just sad how some people just see $$$ signs on a patient when there are actually others who will take any steps to prevent routine, minor things into $$$$. So Kirjax, maybe your dentist is trying to prevent things turning more expensive, but it never hurts to search around.

#13 Post by **kirjax** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:17 am

Thank you Rory for your input.

Well I called my old dentist yesterday but the office was closed for the day. So my appointment is monday at the other dentist. I opted to have 2 fillings filled at that appointment. I think I am going to tell them when I get there to only do one (on the tooth they feel has the deepest/biggest cavity) Then I am still going to go for another opinion if I can get into the other office.

I was angry at first at myself. I kept thinking what am I not doing correctly that I've gotten to this point. But then the anger turned to disappointment in the dentist office bc I kept thinking why haven't they infomred me of these "soft" areas and explained to me before. I don't believe they didn't know they weren't there because the dentist said they were marked on my chart as "questionable" - so obviously at my last appointment they knew something was up. But I was informed of nothing. And as a patient when I'm being told, "all looks well" why would I question anything else? So the reason for my second opinion is not bc I necessarily think they may trying to get money out of me but because I felt they didn't really take the time to talk to me about things and that I was just "another patient" with little concern to my needs.

Of course I don't want a mouth full of fillings (although hopefully you won't see them with the tooth coloring fillings) but on top of it I just got done paying $5,000 for braces and now this is something extra I really don't need at the moment. So yes if I can save myself a few extra bucks on not having to drill more holes in my mouth then great!

And to answer Mike, I have NO insurance whatsoever for dental care. So it's not a matter of this office taking my insurance I don't have any to begin with.

Well I will let you know how monday goes. I think I am going to have a talk with them about how I'm feeling. And letting them know that if they see something on xray that I think as a paying patient it is my right to be informed of any conditions that are to arrise in my care.

But thank you all for your input it helped a lot and made me feel more at ease.

#14 Post by **iBorg** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:39 pm

Kirjax,

I wish you the best of luck.

Mike

#15 Post by **allisun** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:06 pm

YIKES. Let us know how it goes. I can only imagine how frustrated you must be.