Ok so anyway re: relationships I guess I don't like kissing with braces. My husband and I don't really kiss anymore, I kind of feel more distant in that regard. it just is not pleasurable to me with these stiff things in here. So I bet the all-important first post-braces kiss is really awesome, especially if you began a relationship with braces and don't know what it's like to really go to town without them.
And I also feel awkward in the THIS IS SPAM PLEASE REPORT IT TO THE ADMINISTRATOR. THIS IS SPAM PLEASE REPORT IT TO THE ADMINISTRATOR. THIS IS SPAM PLEASE REPORT IT TO THE ADMINISTRATOR. THIS IS SPAM PLEASE REPORT IT TO THE ADMINISTRATOR. with braces, sort of like being naked except for socks or something, just kind of a dumb awkward feeling. Weird idiosyncracies that I can't control about myself, that may or may not happen to others in relationships.
Yes for the next year or so I am a never-THIS IS SPAM PLEASE REPORT IT TO THE ADMINISTRATOR. THIS IS SPAM PLEASE REPORT IT TO THE ADMINISTRATOR. THIS IS SPAM PLEASE REPORT IT TO THE ADMINISTRATOR. THIS IS SPAM PLEASE REPORT IT TO THE ADMINISTRATOR. like Tobias Funke. !!
Relationships with Braces
Moderator: bbsadmin
kudos213 wrote:I'm not sure what you're getting at in your final paragraph.
Lets go back to the very beginning. The little thing that sparked this whole debate: Braces and dating. Earlier you said you were trying to date. What I was trying to figure out why someone would "try to date", yet at the same time "expect negative consequences from falling short of their own standards." Whats the point of even trying to date if you are always going to expect to be turned down?!?! Obviously since you're wearing braces, you're falling short of your own standards... Since theres no way YOU will date someone with braces.. right?!
I think somewhere in the back of your mind you know it's silly to think that braces would take away almost all of your attractiveness; your actions (asking out girls) suggests that you know deep down that you have other things to offer a girl besides your looks. Unless you have some other motives for doing so, but I don't believe that, because you said yourself you were trying to date. I think there's a glimmer of hope in you that you think you could find a girlfriend right now, braces and all, otherwise you wouldn't try.
Listen, the only real reason girls repeatedly turn you down is because you are so overcome with negative self image. You need to somehow get rid of the negative feelings towards your braces and the way you look in them.
Wow this has turned into something borderline mean people!
YES
1. I think that braces take away from my apperance.
2. I wish I had perfect teeth instead of having metal and wires in my mouth.
3. I can't wait to get them off, and I anticipate it will be one of the happiest moments of my life.
4. Sometimes I get down about having braces, but I usually get my mind back on what is important and I move on, its not forever.
HOWEVER - braces are temporary, I know that they aren't a HUGE deal in the grand scheme of life, and I know that they are helping me acheive a better smile which will make me healthier and (gasp) more attractive!
If I had extra large breasts that made me look unattractive and hurt my back, if I had a dangerous heart condition, or if I had a badly deviated septum and a huge nose - YES I would get plastic surgery to fix my health and/or appearance issues. Of course, for about 2-3 weeks, the area being worked on will look swollen, bruised, and over all more disgusting than it did before I started the procedure. It will probably hurt a TON, and for a couple weeks I may be less attractive with bandages and bruises than I was before I got surgery. However, I will know that it is essential to my health or general apperance to have the procedure done, and I will do my best not to get down on my current temporary state of being, and I will be happy in the end.
The reason we are all so "artificially" happy and positive, is because perhaps we all know how it feels to be out of high school with a mouth full of braces!! We know how bad it hurts, how hard it was to adjust, and how some of us potentially don't feel 100% gorgeous and beautiful at all moments during the treatment. Maybe it isn't completely truthful, but we appreciate each others kind words, and feeling like someone out there is going through the same thing as you makes you feel like you are part of something bigger and makes you feel like it isn't as bad as it may seem!
If an overweight person who has lost 50 pounds and has 50 pounds more to lose asks me how they look, I will tell them that they look amazing and that I am proud of how far they have come!! True, I could tell them that they look fat and could stand to lose another 50 pounds, but what would that do?? If someone is in the process of improving themselves and have no easy and quick way out of their current state, maybe making them feel a little bit more happy about themselves is good enough. In the end, they will look fantastic, and that's all that matters!
Have a little sensitivity Kudos. If you feel less than confident about your braces or get down on yourself, perhaps you need a few kind words to get back up on your feet rather than have someone tell you how bad you look and make you feel miserable about a situation you don't have much control over.
YES
1. I think that braces take away from my apperance.
2. I wish I had perfect teeth instead of having metal and wires in my mouth.
3. I can't wait to get them off, and I anticipate it will be one of the happiest moments of my life.
4. Sometimes I get down about having braces, but I usually get my mind back on what is important and I move on, its not forever.
HOWEVER - braces are temporary, I know that they aren't a HUGE deal in the grand scheme of life, and I know that they are helping me acheive a better smile which will make me healthier and (gasp) more attractive!
If I had extra large breasts that made me look unattractive and hurt my back, if I had a dangerous heart condition, or if I had a badly deviated septum and a huge nose - YES I would get plastic surgery to fix my health and/or appearance issues. Of course, for about 2-3 weeks, the area being worked on will look swollen, bruised, and over all more disgusting than it did before I started the procedure. It will probably hurt a TON, and for a couple weeks I may be less attractive with bandages and bruises than I was before I got surgery. However, I will know that it is essential to my health or general apperance to have the procedure done, and I will do my best not to get down on my current temporary state of being, and I will be happy in the end.
The reason we are all so "artificially" happy and positive, is because perhaps we all know how it feels to be out of high school with a mouth full of braces!! We know how bad it hurts, how hard it was to adjust, and how some of us potentially don't feel 100% gorgeous and beautiful at all moments during the treatment. Maybe it isn't completely truthful, but we appreciate each others kind words, and feeling like someone out there is going through the same thing as you makes you feel like you are part of something bigger and makes you feel like it isn't as bad as it may seem!
If an overweight person who has lost 50 pounds and has 50 pounds more to lose asks me how they look, I will tell them that they look amazing and that I am proud of how far they have come!! True, I could tell them that they look fat and could stand to lose another 50 pounds, but what would that do?? If someone is in the process of improving themselves and have no easy and quick way out of their current state, maybe making them feel a little bit more happy about themselves is good enough. In the end, they will look fantastic, and that's all that matters!
Have a little sensitivity Kudos. If you feel less than confident about your braces or get down on yourself, perhaps you need a few kind words to get back up on your feet rather than have someone tell you how bad you look and make you feel miserable about a situation you don't have much control over.
Ok, so with regards to your first comment...yes I AM dating, and I think you're misinterpreting my words. I'm not saying just because I have braces i'm automatically getting turned down, nor am I turning down chicks out the bat because they have braces. And I don't expect to get turned down, who said that? All i'm saying is that it takes away from the overall appearance. I do think that some women will not be as attracted to me because I have braces, but that's not a sweeping generalizating stating that people with braces have no chance in the dating market. And it's not my 'standard' to not date women in braces...but rather I prefer nice smiles. Does that mean i'm not as attracted to a chick in braces? Yes, invariably. Does it mean I will reject every woman who is braced? God no. Don't make inferences you aren't prepared to back up.*melissa* wrote:kudos213 wrote:I'm not sure what you're getting at in your final paragraph.
Lets go back to the very beginning. The little thing that sparked this whole debate: Braces and dating. Earlier you said you were trying to date. What I was trying to figure out why someone would "try to date", yet at the same time "expect negative consequences from falling short of their own standards." Whats the point of even trying to date if you are always going to expect to be turned down?!?! Obviously since you're wearing braces, you're falling short of your own standards... Since theres no way YOU will date someone with braces.. right?!
I think somewhere in the back of your mind you know it's silly to think that braces would take away almost all of your attractiveness; your actions (asking out girls) suggests that you know deep down that you have other things to offer a girl besides your looks. Unless you have some other motives for doing so, but I don't believe that, because you said yourself you were trying to date. I think there's a glimmer of hope in you that you think you could find a girlfriend right now, braces and all, otherwise you wouldn't try.
Listen, the only real reason girls repeatedly turn you down is because you are so overcome with negative self image. You need to somehow get rid of the negative feelings towards your braces and the way you look in them.
Ha, yes thanks, I do have other things to offer women. I'm not taking myself off the dating market because of these things. Neither should anyone else. But I have had a bit more rejections than before I was braced. I can't say that this is absolutely because of the braces, but I think it definitely had a part. Do I feel bad sometimes because I get turned down, sure. Does that mean I have lost all hope and am burying myself in my closet? Dude, no.
lol, I have to laugh. I don't have a 'negative self image' Dr. Phil. I am realistic about how I look. That's all. No, I don't walk around with a smile on my face everyday and think everything is wonderful. Trust me, no one looks better with braces than they would with their natural smile AFTER the braces are off. If you don't believe that then when the doc says it's time to deband, just tell him you think you're more attractive with the braces and you'll keep them on for life. This should drive the point home.
Listen, i'm not saying braced people are just plain ugly or that they shouldn't date....you people are taking my words and making much to strong an inference from them. What I am saying is they aren't exactly the most attractive thing in the world and sometimes it becomes tough. That's cool. We all know it's temporary and that the result is worth it...but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be affected by them. To just dismiss feeling bad. To "just think positive" all the time. Get real.
Have the courage to know.
-Kant
-Kant
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fluffybottom
- Posts: 385
- Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:28 pm
- Location: Hollywood, CA
- Contact:
See, and I personally think that is making a great leap in assumption. Thinking to yourself 'I look bad in braces, that is why he rejected me' does not immediately lead to amnesia about all the things you have to offer and a bottomed out self-esteem. While it is important not to wallow in the more negative emotions in the range of human feelings, it is also important to feel them, express them and get them out. Otherwise, they stay inside and fester which tends to be much more damaging in the long run (for me, at least).Meryaten wrote:Turning around and saying, "yes, I look so bad in braces that it's no wonder that bloke wasn't interested in me," is to give said bloke power to make you miserable, erode your self-esteem, and let you forget all the positives about yourself.
If someone were to say to me 'Oh, you are better off without a shallow guy like that', I would not find that comforting. I would feel like I was being fed a line, being told what the other person thinks I want to hear. Why? Because I would still in that moment, still feeling those feelings. While the head would know the statement to be true, the emotions inside are not ready to move on from the hurt experienced in the situation. So I would probably agree, put on a smile so I wouldn't be troubling the person with my feelings, feel kind of stupid/pathetic for bringing it up and probably conclude that they aren't really someone I can count on for honest help. Additionally, statements like the better-off one do nothing to prepare the person for when(if) the situation comes up again. If anything, it would leave me feeling more vulnerable (Gosh, this guy too? Am I better off with no one at all?) What would be much more effective for me* would be someone who challenges me to work through my experience and help me come up with solutions for the future. This probably has a lot to do with my upbringing (my parents are very problem-solving oriented; they'd let my brother and I have our cry but then it was time for 'why did this happen and how will you handle it from here?).
*I do realize that everyone copes with things differently; I'm offering my perspective simply to show that the issue isn't so black and white, that there isn't just one way to be supportive. Some people benefit from blind, positive encouragement; some people respond better to other support strategies. So just because someone isn't 100% sunshine and hugs doesn't mean they are mean/insecure/shallow/etc. Just as people cope in different ways, folks support in different ways too!
BoSox, a very diplomatic response. Well put. I'll add my own thoughts to a few things you said and we can go from there...
To reply to Meryaten's post at this point, while I am a fan of Socrates who was unperturbable and more interested with the reason for which people held their beliefs rather than who they were espousing them, for the first time i'm going to argue against 'being an island.'
While I agree with you in general, in relationships I don't. When you want to be in a relationship with someone, and you like them you're going to want that love reciprocated. No, I don't let random people, friends, collegues etc affect me because of my braces. But when you fall in love you're going to care about what that person feels, and how they feel about you. I'm guessing you haven't been in love (can't recall if you were married or in a relationship).
I hear your point, I do. I'm not advocating a negative-only campaign in the adult brace world. I'll try and turn this back on you, just cause I know you're level headed. Okay, so if someone who was still 50 lbs overweight asked you out you might, considering this person as a whole, say yes. But lets say you said no. You just weren't attracted to him for whatever reason. He feels strongly that his weight may be a factor in the rejection. If it were me, i'd rather be told "hey, you've made a lot of progress and that's great. You're still losing weight, so that's good too. But until you get fit there may be some down times." That's it. There is a reason you would choose to fix a cosmetic problem (as would I) and I don't think there is anything particurly wrong with attributing some remorse to that condition until it's fixed or acknowledging it. What's being said here was more of a dismissal "If they don't like it, then they weren't worth your time" is what is being said. But you, like me, don't think that's entirely accurate. If there is something we don't like about ourselves enough that we are willing to endure costly surgery, years of orthodontics etc then we can understand how someone else wouldn't like it either. If that's the case, acknowledge it, understand it and improve on it. Don't dismiss it along with anyone who doesn't like it.The reason we are all so "artificially" happy and positive, is because perhaps we all know how it feels to be out of high school with a mouth full of braces!! We know how bad it hurts, how hard it was to adjust, and how some of us potentially don't feel 100% gorgeous and beautiful at all moments during the treatment. Maybe it isn't completely truthful, but we appreciate each others kind words, and feeling like someone out there is going through the same thing as you makes you feel like you are part of something bigger and makes you feel like it isn't as bad as it may seem!
If an overweight person who has lost 50 pounds and has 50 pounds more to lose asks me how they look, I will tell them that they look amazing and that I am proud of how far they have come!! True, I could tell them that they look fat and could stand to lose another 50 pounds, but what would that do?? If someone is in the process of improving themselves and have no easy and quick way out of their current state, maybe making them feel a little bit more happy about themselves is good enough. In the end, they will look fantastic, and that's all that matters!
To reply to Meryaten's post at this point, while I am a fan of Socrates who was unperturbable and more interested with the reason for which people held their beliefs rather than who they were espousing them, for the first time i'm going to argue against 'being an island.'
But it's also important to be able to sit back and realise when you're just allowing someone else the power to make you feel bad, and that they ought not have that power over you. Telling someone that they are better off without the person who rejects them because of braces is telling them that that person should not have power over them, and that they have far more to offer the world than a set of teeth that happen, for a limited time, to be bonded with orthodontic brackets
While I agree with you in general, in relationships I don't. When you want to be in a relationship with someone, and you like them you're going to want that love reciprocated. No, I don't let random people, friends, collegues etc affect me because of my braces. But when you fall in love you're going to care about what that person feels, and how they feel about you. I'm guessing you haven't been in love (can't recall if you were married or in a relationship).
Have the courage to know.
-Kant
-Kant
If you skipped this post, read it. Well saidfluffybottom wrote:See, and I personally think that is making a great leap in assumption. Thinking to yourself 'I look bad in braces, that is why he rejected me' does not immediately lead to amnesia about all the things you have to offer and a bottomed out self-esteem. While it is important not to wallow in the more negative emotions in the range of human feelings, it is also important to feel them, express them and get them out. Otherwise, they stay inside and fester which tends to be much more damaging in the long run (for me, at least).Meryaten wrote:Turning around and saying, "yes, I look so bad in braces that it's no wonder that bloke wasn't interested in me," is to give said bloke power to make you miserable, erode your self-esteem, and let you forget all the positives about yourself.
If someone were to say to me 'Oh, you are better off without a shallow guy like that', I would not find that comforting. I would feel like I was being fed a line, being told what the other person thinks I want to hear. Why? Because I would still in that moment, still feeling those feelings. While the head would know the statement to be true, the emotions inside are not ready to move on from the hurt experienced in the situation. So I would probably agree, put on a smile so I wouldn't be troubling the person with my feelings, feel kind of stupid/pathetic for bringing it up and probably conclude that they aren't really someone I can count on for honest help. Additionally, statements like the better-off one do nothing to prepare the person for when(if) the situation comes up again. If anything, it would leave me feeling more vulnerable (Gosh, this guy too? Am I better off with no one at all?) What would be much more effective for me* would be someone who challenges me to work through my experience and help me come up with solutions for the future. This probably has a lot to do with my upbringing (my parents are very problem-solving oriented; they'd let my brother and I have our cry but then it was time for 'why did this happen and how will you handle it from here?).
*I do realize that everyone copes with things differently; I'm offering my perspective simply to show that the issue isn't so black and white, that there isn't just one way to be supportive. Some people benefit from blind, positive encouragement; some people respond better to other support strategies. So just because someone isn't 100% sunshine and hugs doesn't mean they are mean/insecure/shallow/etc. Just as people cope in different ways, folks support in different ways too!
Have the courage to know.
-Kant
-Kant
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bracedintx
- Posts: 140
- Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 11:52 am
Nice, kudos!kudos213 wrote:This is also a correct assessmentKudos- You seem like an intelligent guy
I have to say that I don't feel like this board is always sunshine and light...I have read plenty of threads where people give honest opinions, especially on tooth progress and whether people think there are further issues to address. But in general I find that posters ant to let others know if they have been through the same thing and it has gotten better.
I am not one of those girls who thinks that braces make me look cuter--I think they make me look 12.
I don't like seeing my smile in pictures right now but i didn't like it before either--hoping I like it metal-free.
Like wonky, I do not enjoy kissing with braces and my husband doesn't like it either. We rarely kiss anymore and that's sad to me.
And like wonky, I am awkward naked in braces (even more than usual)--LOVE the arrested development reference!!
But I know that I can come on here and meet up with others who are either going through the same thing right now and can commiserate, have been through it already and can tell me that it gets better--good to hear even if I can't immediately relate but it's something I can look forward to.
self-ligating metal brackets all around
Bracedintx,
I think that's a very honest and candid post. Glad you made it. I agree with you and understand what you're saying (all except the naked part - i'll have to get arrested development?).
I also understand about sharing your experiences with people here and having them empathize with you. I agree as well.
It's just that after going through the first few pages of this thread there are a few posts that really get to me (read: annoy). They claim that only shallow people are turned off from someone with braces and that they shouldn't affect us at all. I'm just saying it's ok to feel a bit less attractive in them. If you didn't, then why would you dispand as soon as you could? Just keep those braces for another year or two. That's obviously unrealistic, but it makes my point.
Thanks for not making me feel like a shallow bastard.
I think that's a very honest and candid post. Glad you made it. I agree with you and understand what you're saying (all except the naked part - i'll have to get arrested development?).
I also understand about sharing your experiences with people here and having them empathize with you. I agree as well.
It's just that after going through the first few pages of this thread there are a few posts that really get to me (read: annoy). They claim that only shallow people are turned off from someone with braces and that they shouldn't affect us at all. I'm just saying it's ok to feel a bit less attractive in them. If you didn't, then why would you dispand as soon as you could? Just keep those braces for another year or two. That's obviously unrealistic, but it makes my point.
Thanks for not making me feel like a shallow bastard.
Have the courage to know.
-Kant
-Kant
This is getting out of hand. Listen, the only point here is that braces can be unattractive to some people. That's it. Furthermore, I also want to make the point that acknowledging that fact is okay.
Furthermore you are undermining the original posters outlook on the situation
I'm here to say, you know what? No, you don't have to like it. I'm braced as well, so I definitely feel entitled to say it. Be positive about being in braces, I know I am. But that doesn't mean that anyone who thinks they are unattractive are shallow or not worth our time.
Are you implying that if we like someone that we meet, we shouldn't care what they think of us? Maybe you've been in your current relationship long enough that you don't remember what it's like to be in the dating scene. I've bolded the portion I take the most issue with. THAT is exactly what happens when you are trying to date someone. People who you don't really care what they think you wouldn't want to date in the first place. I'm not saying ANYONE off the street can make me feel bad about my braces, but inevitably you do feel bad if someone you like doesn't like you back regardless of how much you think it's worth, Meryaten.Setting aside the fact that we are no more impressed by your invoking Socrates than we were by your use of latin, I've never met anyone who can contrive to be so obtuse. If someone is rejecting you as a dating prospect because of braces (the topic at hand) then by definition you are not in a "relationship" with them. Of course the people with whom we are in relationships have emotional power over us, for worse and for better, and it would be devastating (not to say incredibly low) if someone's spouse were to dump them for getting braces! But it is not worth giving that sort of power over you to a complete stranger you happen by in the singles set.
First off I did qualify it with the fact that I wasn't sure. I don't know who you are or how old you are...frankly it doesn't matter. You come off smug with your advice thatAs to your assertion that I have obviously not been in love - that's preposterous, and beneath contempt. (Not to mention a demonstration that you've either not bothered to read, or have failed to comprehend my posts)
Who says that's shallow? The mistake you make is thinking that is the ONLY reason why I might not find someone attractive. You make incorrect inferences that serve to misconstrue the point, which you use to go on with your adolescent name calling.And for another, your comment, "when I saw a girl that I thought was cute until I saw she had braces," suggests to me that the social circles in which you choose to participate are perhaps the sort where dismissal of perfectly wonderful people on perfectly shallow criteria might be the accepted norm. Talk about having to reap what you sow!
Furthermore you are undermining the original posters outlook on the situation
Maybe she, very much like myself, don't like the look people have in braces. Why is this so shallow and hard for you to understand. Instead of basically telling her she's shallow as well for feeling that, maybe you should empathize with her. The problem I have with a lot (but definitely not all, see MissDiana's first post on this thread on the second page among others) of the posts on this thread because they are basically saying "hey, you should like your look and if you or others don't then you're basically shallow and aren't worth the time anyway."Of course I've heard a lot of people say that braces made no difference in their relationships, but I find it so hard to believe. I mean, i look in the mirror and wonder why anyone would even imagine dating someone with braces, no offense intended to anyone, I already know I must be messed up in the head.
So just to put the story straight....has braces really not affected anyones love life?
I'm here to say, you know what? No, you don't have to like it. I'm braced as well, so I definitely feel entitled to say it. Be positive about being in braces, I know I am. But that doesn't mean that anyone who thinks they are unattractive are shallow or not worth our time.
I wholeheartedly agree with this paragraph. I'm not trying to say that we should think of ourselves as undateable. However i also think we shouldn't make the opposite mistake of thinking that braces don't affect our prospects AT ALL. This is the point i've been trying to make. Understand that it may be harder to find someone while braced. If you just disagree with that, think of the THIS IS SPAM REPORT TO ADMIN THIS IS SPAM REPORT TO ADMIN THIS IS SPAM REPORT TO ADMIN THIS IS SPAM REPORT TO ADMIN; that it might be easier to find a mate after you're debanded. If you agree with the latter, then you should concede the former.You are doubtless right in this regard - for some people - the peoplle who are not letting a few rejections make them label themselves as null prospects. But given some people here do indeed seem to think they are undatable because of braces, we have a clear indication that some people are letting themselves focus only on this superficial negative and are forgetting that many people would indeed choose to date them for their very many positive attributes, and braces be d***ed. That, of course, is the whole point of what so many of us have been saying all through this thread about the many people who would not judge us "undateable" because of braces, but would consider us upon all our other merits.
I'm not trying to impress anyone. Well, maybe a few who might be readingSetting aside the fact that we are no more impressed by your invoking Socrates than we were by your use of latin, I've never met anyone who can contrive to be so obtuse.
Have the courage to know.
-Kant
-Kant
-
martinboyce
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:42 am
- Location: Leicester
OMG,
Meryaten & kudos213
Ive read everything you guys have written and yet, nothing has been changed nor proved
Reading both your posts, its like your radical preachers dramatically using words to dance around one another, its less of a discussion and more of an argument, and yet neither of you should try and pick apart each others opinions, nor try to disprove them, as ultimately you’ve not changed anything just enforced each others resolve to make your next post sound more like a verse from some lost extravagant biblical volume. Using long drawn out sentences, extravagant synonyms, Latin, zwahili whatever wont highlight your opinion more, nor will it prove your overall intelligence.
You both should be smart enough to realize neither of you are right and yet both right, knowing that everyone feels differently about braces both for and against them. No one person is right, there is no single rule. You are merely stating your own opinions. Which in turn is fantastic as if nothing else gives me something to read. But you shouldn’t try and change someone’s opinion based on your own opinion.
You can quote me all you want as I speak from the heart and I speak the truth, I too have my opinions about braces in relationships but like many others would rather not post them in this link for fear you would pick it apart take time dissecting it and attempt to tell me im wrong. When that would be impossible.
You both have to agree to disagree, stop disregarding each others opinions, its insulting and offending when people do this, i know ive had it done to me. Your just both winding yourself up so tightly, prob to the point you sit there with a mean face
on whilst your quoting each other and typing out a respective dismissal
Your bascially name calling in each post now, niave, abtuse, shallow basically this isnt any worse than cussing profanities at each other.
Reply by all means guys but understand i cannot be swayed by paragraphs of carefully structured wording.
Now i need to carefully eat a pasty, which in my current sensitive toothed situation is way harder than writing in this thread, Pasty you are my everest!
PS. I too like cake!
Meryaten & kudos213
Ive read everything you guys have written and yet, nothing has been changed nor proved
Reading both your posts, its like your radical preachers dramatically using words to dance around one another, its less of a discussion and more of an argument, and yet neither of you should try and pick apart each others opinions, nor try to disprove them, as ultimately you’ve not changed anything just enforced each others resolve to make your next post sound more like a verse from some lost extravagant biblical volume. Using long drawn out sentences, extravagant synonyms, Latin, zwahili whatever wont highlight your opinion more, nor will it prove your overall intelligence.
You both should be smart enough to realize neither of you are right and yet both right, knowing that everyone feels differently about braces both for and against them. No one person is right, there is no single rule. You are merely stating your own opinions. Which in turn is fantastic as if nothing else gives me something to read. But you shouldn’t try and change someone’s opinion based on your own opinion.
You can quote me all you want as I speak from the heart and I speak the truth, I too have my opinions about braces in relationships but like many others would rather not post them in this link for fear you would pick it apart take time dissecting it and attempt to tell me im wrong. When that would be impossible.
You both have to agree to disagree, stop disregarding each others opinions, its insulting and offending when people do this, i know ive had it done to me. Your just both winding yourself up so tightly, prob to the point you sit there with a mean face
on whilst your quoting each other and typing out a respective dismissalYour bascially name calling in each post now, niave, abtuse, shallow basically this isnt any worse than cussing profanities at each other.
Reply by all means guys but understand i cannot be swayed by paragraphs of carefully structured wording.
Now i need to carefully eat a pasty, which in my current sensitive toothed situation is way harder than writing in this thread, Pasty you are my everest!
PS. I too like cake!
I wasn’t going to add to this thread, even though I’ve read every single word of it with great glee 
because I’ve already said how I feel way back in the beginning but after talking to my man last night I’ve decided to add his views.
I asked him to be 100% honest in his thoughts, feelings and response and not to say what he thought I wanted to hear given the fact that I am braced.
I asked him that if he were single and out looking for a potential mate, whether that be short term or long term, how would he feel about a woman in braces.
He said…
A beautiful woman (in his opinion, remember beauty is in the eye of the beholder) does not suddenly become less attractive just because she is braced.
Likewise an ugly woman doesn’t suddenly become beautiful just because she is braced.
In a nutshell a woman to him is either attractive or she isn’t and anything added like braces, leg in plaster, glasses etc. make no difference whatsoever.
If he was in a bar he would search out the most attractive women he could find and start chatting to them irrespective of braces or not.
But, he does not think that being put off by someone in braces is anymore shallow than being put off by someone who is overweight. He likes skinny women (thankfully I am lol) and he would never chat up an overweight woman no matter how wonderful her personality was or how beautiful her face was. This he feels is a little shallow in just the same way as being put off by braces is.
We all know what we do and don’t like and there is no point in starting to date someone who has a part of them that turns you off no matter whether it’s temporary or not.
These are his views not mine although I tend to agree with him to a point…only difference with me is I’m not so fussy. A man doesn’t have to look like Brad Pitt for me to be interested, although that would be nice
because I’ve already said how I feel way back in the beginning but after talking to my man last night I’ve decided to add his views.I asked him to be 100% honest in his thoughts, feelings and response and not to say what he thought I wanted to hear given the fact that I am braced.
I asked him that if he were single and out looking for a potential mate, whether that be short term or long term, how would he feel about a woman in braces.
He said…
A beautiful woman (in his opinion, remember beauty is in the eye of the beholder) does not suddenly become less attractive just because she is braced.
Likewise an ugly woman doesn’t suddenly become beautiful just because she is braced.
In a nutshell a woman to him is either attractive or she isn’t and anything added like braces, leg in plaster, glasses etc. make no difference whatsoever.
If he was in a bar he would search out the most attractive women he could find and start chatting to them irrespective of braces or not.
But, he does not think that being put off by someone in braces is anymore shallow than being put off by someone who is overweight. He likes skinny women (thankfully I am lol) and he would never chat up an overweight woman no matter how wonderful her personality was or how beautiful her face was. This he feels is a little shallow in just the same way as being put off by braces is.
We all know what we do and don’t like and there is no point in starting to date someone who has a part of them that turns you off no matter whether it’s temporary or not.
These are his views not mine although I tend to agree with him to a point…only difference with me is I’m not so fussy. A man doesn’t have to look like Brad Pitt for me to be interested, although that would be nice
This is like a novel, everyone sounds so very intelligent!
Let's all agree that each person has their own points of view. Some are more optimistic than others, but in the end - our opinions of what others think about us have no effect on what people actually think.
Kudos - I understand what you're saying. I guess I choose to have a happier outlook on having braces because I know its a long term situation and thinking about whether or not I'm attractive gets very old. I will admit, that when I first got these babies put on I really hated going anywhere or smiling at people. It wasn't until 7 or 8 months in that I completely gave up on worrying about how I looked because it was exhausting and had no purpose!
I think the difference here may be that you're a man and most of the people in the conversation are women. Women tend to be more sensitive and never want to hear the inevitable truth about their apperance (if a woman asks if she looks fat in a dress, rarely will she want to hear that she does in fact look fat). Men on the other hand (most men I know) tend to be more forward and honest with their feelings. My boyfriend's friend has gained about 30 pounds in the past few months and the group of guys tease him about his beer belly nonstop. Its all good and fun, but I don't think women would respond in the same way to a weight or apperance problem.
In regards to being attractive: eventhough we like to think that we aren't primarily attracted to someone because of their looks but more based on their personality - the statement can be some what false. Most of the time, there has to be SOMETHING that attracts you to a person in the first place to even get you to walk up and talk to them. If something about a man doesn't attract me, then I will probably overlook him and never have a chance to get to know his personality.
I agree that being in a relationship and having your partner get braces will not make you end the relationship. But that is because you ALREADY know and love them for more than just their looks. However, I do agree that if something about you is not attractive to someone else, they may not give you a chance in the first place.
Just relax about your braces though! Even if you feel that women are turning you down for dates because of your braces, just remember that you will get them off relatively soon and you will have the rest of your life to date!! It will be interesting to see if you get an overwhelmingly different response from women once you have perfect teeth, who knows! Good luck and don't get too down on yourself. It is, after all, only a few tiny squares of metal with a couple wires. In the grand scheme of life, your braces are as meaningless as the haircut you had in high school or how chubby you were in kindergarden : )
Let's all agree that each person has their own points of view. Some are more optimistic than others, but in the end - our opinions of what others think about us have no effect on what people actually think.
Kudos - I understand what you're saying. I guess I choose to have a happier outlook on having braces because I know its a long term situation and thinking about whether or not I'm attractive gets very old. I will admit, that when I first got these babies put on I really hated going anywhere or smiling at people. It wasn't until 7 or 8 months in that I completely gave up on worrying about how I looked because it was exhausting and had no purpose!
I think the difference here may be that you're a man and most of the people in the conversation are women. Women tend to be more sensitive and never want to hear the inevitable truth about their apperance (if a woman asks if she looks fat in a dress, rarely will she want to hear that she does in fact look fat). Men on the other hand (most men I know) tend to be more forward and honest with their feelings. My boyfriend's friend has gained about 30 pounds in the past few months and the group of guys tease him about his beer belly nonstop. Its all good and fun, but I don't think women would respond in the same way to a weight or apperance problem.
In regards to being attractive: eventhough we like to think that we aren't primarily attracted to someone because of their looks but more based on their personality - the statement can be some what false. Most of the time, there has to be SOMETHING that attracts you to a person in the first place to even get you to walk up and talk to them. If something about a man doesn't attract me, then I will probably overlook him and never have a chance to get to know his personality.
I agree that being in a relationship and having your partner get braces will not make you end the relationship. But that is because you ALREADY know and love them for more than just their looks. However, I do agree that if something about you is not attractive to someone else, they may not give you a chance in the first place.
Just relax about your braces though! Even if you feel that women are turning you down for dates because of your braces, just remember that you will get them off relatively soon and you will have the rest of your life to date!! It will be interesting to see if you get an overwhelmingly different response from women once you have perfect teeth, who knows! Good luck and don't get too down on yourself. It is, after all, only a few tiny squares of metal with a couple wires. In the grand scheme of life, your braces are as meaningless as the haircut you had in high school or how chubby you were in kindergarden : )
Martin, this isn't a math proof. We aren't here claiming to know an ultimate truth. Each party involved is making their contribution to make their own point. If there was a way "prove" the point these threads would not need to be longer than two posts. Secondly, call it a discussion argument dance or whatever...however it seems constructive (at the very least interesting, since you're still reading) and everyone is getting their points across. I'll disagree with you on your last sentence above-I believe there are many intelligent people on this board, and I believe they are also using their intelligence to make their points. This helps the rest of us learn and understand about other people's experience.martinboyce wrote:OMG,
Meryaten & kudos213
Ive read everything you guys have written and yet, nothing has been changed nor proved
Reading both your posts, its like your radical preachers dramatically using words to dance around one another, its less of a discussion and more of an argument, and yet neither of you should try and pick apart each others opinions, nor try to disprove them, as ultimately you’ve not changed anything just enforced each others resolve to make your next post sound more like a verse from some lost extravagant biblical volume. Using long drawn out sentences, extravagant synonyms, Latin, zwahili whatever wont highlight your opinion more, nor will it prove your overall intelligence.
Martin, no one claims to be the "correct" point of view. Each party is just making their voice heard. Being apart of a community like this one in some respect obligates us to make our voice heard in spite of the fact that, as you put it, no one person is right. You're no more right than we are in that regard, but this does not mean your viewpoint should not be made or heard?martinboyce wrote: You both should be smart enough to realize neither of you are right and yet both right, knowing that everyone feels differently about braces both for and against them. No one person is right, there is no single rule. You are merely stating your own opinions. Which in turn is fantastic as if nothing else gives me something to read. But you shouldn’t try and change someone’s opinion based on your own opinion.
If your reasoning is sound, then you shouldn't worry about having your thoughts picked apart. However if you haven't taken the time to think your ideas through then maybe it is best you refrain from contributing. However, i'm always willing to listen to others well reasoned thoughts on my own thinking, you may not be like this however.martinboyce wrote: You can quote me all you want as I speak from the heart and I speak the truth, I too have my opinions about braces in relationships but like many others would rather not post them in this link for fear you would pick it apart take time dissecting it and attempt to tell me im wrong. When that would be impossible.
Nothing of the sort, Martin. I can speak for myself in saying that i'm not upset with anyone here. I am making my point heard. The fact that you claim you can't be swayed Martin is disconcerting. I don't really care if you agree with me or anyone else on this board for that matter, but you shouldn't be so closed off to the world and other people's thoughts that you won't consider them. Carefully reasoned thought can improve the quality of ones life.martinboyce wrote: You both have to agree to disagree, stop disregarding each others opinions, its insulting and offending when people do this, i know ive had it done to me. Your just both winding yourself up so tightly, prob to the point you sit there with a mean face
Reply by all means guys but understand i cannot be swayed by paragraphs of carefully structured wording.
I'll leave you with this. Have you heard of the comment (again from Socrates) that the unconsidered life not worth living? What he meant was that a life lived without forethought or principle is a life so vulnerable to chance, and so dependent on the choices and actions of others, that it is of little real value to the person living it. He further meant that a life well lived is one which has goals, integrity and which is chosen and directed by the one who lives it, to the fullest extent possible to a human agent caught in the webs of society and history.
Sometimes, others opinions can help you consider your own life more thoroughly
Last edited by kudos213 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Have the courage to know.
-Kant
-Kant