Qs about overbite v. overjet and herbst appliance (LONG)

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#1 Post by **newsboysgrl777** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:25 pm

Okay...so I have what I think is called a slight overbite, however, I saw a post recently where someone said something about having an overjet, but not overbite, or something to that effect. This is prompting me to ask:

1. What is an overbite?
2. What is an overjet?
3. How do the two differ from one another?

Also, I JUST read a post that was talking about an herbst appliance helping with lower jaw expansion, and I admit I'm kind of shocked. My ortho never mentioned this to me and I don't think it's part of my treatment, but...I have some questions about this appliance. (And, by the way, googling "what is an herbst appliance" and "how does an herbst appliance work" and just simply "herbst appliance" is bringing me no relevant matches).

1. What does the herbst do?
2. If it DOES help move the lower jaw forward, is this only in younger patients, where their jaws are still growing, or is this also for someone like me, who is an adult?
3. Should I talk with my ortho about this and see if it is an option for me?

Regarding my situation, I've been braced on top for 8 months and will be getting my lowers on in 1 week exactly. Initially, I went to 2 ortho consults. The first one is the first time I was told to fix my problem I would need jaw surgery (and braces) and then the second consult I was told the same, but the second ortho told me that my 'problem' (I don't know if it was called overbite or overjet) wasn't significant enough for surgery and that it could be corrected with braces only. (I believe the first ortho may have said they could do just the braces and make satisfactory progress, but I don't remember at this point)

However, after reading a lot of things, I'm starting to question this. I know that using braces will bring the teeth forward, not the jaw, and that this might correct my bite (which is really the main issue, right?), but will the teeth shift BACK (meaning backwards) even wearing a retainer?? Would a herbst maybe be something to consider??

Sorry for such a long post and so many questions. I know the best thing to do is have a talk with my ortho about this, but I'm not due to go back until a week from today (Tues) and I don't feel comfortable calling there because she's so busy. I'd love any input/suggestions you can give before I go in there asking my questions.

#2 Post by **classII** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:59 am

Very basically.

1. Over bit is when your teeth from the back to the front up to the canines both lower and upper, or two low in the jaw. So when you close your mouth your front set of teeth touch the gums

http://www.taylorortho.com/images/Brace ... erbite.jpg

To fix it they have increase the height of all the back teeth top and bottom and / or lower the or raise the front teeth so that when you do close your mouth they all meet at the same height. There is a thing called the "curve of spee" when you look sideways at the teeth:

http://www.waybuilder.net/sweethaven/Me ... ig0220.jpg

You can see there if your front teeth are too high (over erupted) when you close your mouth they'll hit the gums before all your back teeth touch.

2. Over-jet is when your bottom jaw is shorter than your top jaw and your front teeth are more forward than your bottom teeth.

http://www.dentistrysource.ca/articles/ ... ocks_1.jpg

In this case the idea is to pull back the top teeth (shorten the top) so that the top teeth all touch the bottom in the correct manner. As you can see in the picture, you can remove a pair of teeth from the top then pull back everything so they sit properly when closed close to the bottom teeth.

Or surgically move the bottom jaw forward so that the bottom front teeth when closed now match where the top teeth are.

Or if young, where the applience comes in, while growing use an applience to stretch the bottom jaw (make it grow) forward into the correct position.

Use of an appliece in an adult may have very slight movement, superficial in just stretching the muscle or relaxing it more so that when the teeth close they don't try to pull back. I think the age up to 23 there is still a chance to use it.

Otherwise it can be camoflauged even without extractions. by rounding out the arches you decrease the over jet (usually the top jaw and arch is almost like a triangle), and by lower the curve of spee and tilting the bottom teeth very slightly forward, so that the distance when closing the mouth is reduced and when it is closed the front teeth are positioned correctly enough that it won't lapse.

Very very very basic gist of it all.

#3 Post by **newbie** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:10 am

Use of an appliece in an adult may have very slight movement, superficial in just stretching the muscle or relaxing it more so that when the teeth close they don't try to pull back. I think the age up to 23 there is still a chance to use it.

I certainly hope this isn't the case. I'm 39 got a herbst appliance to help with an overjet (based on the description in the previous post).

I don't think this is a very common practice. I'm going to a very established large practice and I'm the first adult they've tried with a Herbst.

You are right. There isn't much out there on the Herbst. I tried looking myself.

#4 Post by **newsboysgrl777** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:19 am

classII...wow!! If that is VERY VERY VERY simple and basic, I would HATE the in-depth, complex description!! HA HA. Thanks so much for this post, though. I really appreciate it!

newbie...WOW! Good luck! I hope it works out for you! I guess I'll still talk to my ortho about using an herbst and I'll let you know what she says. I have an emergency appointment set up for tomorrow for some serious pain I'm having in my gum ... the woman on the phone said this is normal, but I don't care. I want to be SURE from the orthodontist, not some receptionist that can't see my teeth, that this is indeed 'normal' and no harm will come from my teeth. Sometimes I think the people at the front desk are so rude...it angers me...

Thanks to both of you!!

#5 Post by **newsboysgrl777** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:20 am

i guess i meant to say no harm will come TO my teeth, not FROM them...lol

#6 Post by **newsboysgrl777** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:28 pm

Okay, so it helps to look at the pictures you posted, classII. Now I understand a bit more clearly everything you SAID (proving that a picture IS worth a thousand words..LOL). So, it looks like I've got both an overjet and an overbite. However, i think fixing the overbite - i mean the overjet (i'm getting the 2 backwards in my mind

) - will fix the overbite...I think? When I see side photos of my teeth, my top teeth are only slightly forward of their bottom tooth's counterpart, so maybe this is why my ortho said my overjet was only slight. And, the overBITE, which is pretty intense (and you can see NO bottom teeth because the top teeth cover it), should get fixed if the bottom teeth move forward? I hope? hmm...i can DEFINITELY see how moving the jaw forward would fix that, but not sure about just moving the teeth. Anyway...thanks for letting me ramble. I'm off to find some pictures that I think I have of my own over -bite and -jet

#7 Post by **makeupgirl45** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:50 pm

has this Herbst appliance helped your overjet? I'm 54 and would love to know. Thanks

newbie wrote:Use of an appliece in an adult may have very slight movement, superficial in just stretching the muscle or relaxing it more so that when the teeth close they don't try to pull back. I think the age up to 23 there is still a chance to use it.

I certainly hope this isn't the case. I'm 39 got a herbst appliance to help with an overjet (based on the description in the previous post).

I don't think this is a very common practice. I'm going to a very established large practice and I'm the first adult they've tried with a Herbst.

You are right. There isn't much out there on the Herbst. I tried looking myself.

#8 Post by **newbie** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:11 pm

It's too early to tell yet. I'm supposed to wear it for a year and it's only been four months. Others on this board have used it with good results. I don't remember the age however.

It is very uncomfortable compared to just braces. A month ago I had it removed because my cheek was infected and I was going out of town. Just having the braces on was SOOO nice. It gave me a lot of encouragement that things will be so much better after the Herbst is removed.

#9 Post by **makeupgirl45** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:19 pm

what does it do the HERBST? Expand the arch? How awful, your cheek got infected. I hope you're ok. THey told me the only way to correct the overjet is to shave down all my teeth and cap them and redo braces and have TAD implants. I'm so upset. Do you have space for your teeth to move back?

I had my 1st premolars and 4 wisdom out?

newbie wrote:It's too early to tell yet. I'm supposed to wear it for a year and it's only been four months. Others on this board have used it with good results. I don't remember the age however.

It is very uncomfortable compared to just braces. A month ago I had it removed because my cheek was infected and I was going out of town. Just having the braces on was SOOO nice. It gave me a lot of encouragement that things will be so much better after the Herbst is removed.

#10 Post by **newsboysgrl777** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:15 pm

makeupgirl45 wrote:what does it do the HERBST? Expand the arch? How awful, your cheek got infected. I hope you're ok. THey told me the only way to correct the overjet is to shave down all my teeth and cap them and redo braces and have TAD implants. I'm so upset. Do you have space for your teeth to move back?

I had my 1st premolars and 4 wisdom out?

the herbst, from my understanding, corrects the alignment of the jaws by moving one forward (is it always the lower one? or could it be either?? anyone who knows, please feel free to chime in). I don't believe it corrects anything to do with the arch or the space in the mouth. Of course, I could be totally wrong about this...but this is my understanding from what I've read.

My question is - what do you mean by shave down your teeth? Do you mean interproximal reduction? (if that's the right term? Where they shave down some of the enamel BETWEEN each tooth?) Or do you mean where they'll be making your teeth SHORTER? Or do you mean taking enamel off from the front/back? I'm very confused about that.

Also, the TAD...how will that help correct an overjet? I'm curious about that.

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Qs about overbite v. overjet and herbst appliance (LONG)

Qs about overbite v. overjet and herbst appliance (LONG)

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