Anyone experienced reversing extraction treatment?

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braces2
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:32 am

Re: Anyone experienced reversing extraction treatment?

#16 Post by braces2 »

sirwired wrote:
"Retreatment" itself may not be what the ortho's aren't thrilled with. Plenty of people on this board on doing a 2nd round of braces (I am); it's not at all unusual. It may be that they believe doing what you want (and I have no idea what you are looking to have done) may produce an unstable or poorly-integrated final result.
I'd understand if that's what they were saying, but when I say some don't want to bother, I mean, when they agreed the original treatment was not ideal, but it wasn't something that they felt they could address or were afraid of complications, such as root resorption.

When I say that's what the OP has to do, I was responding to his or her repeated question about what "reversing" it would be. I have no idea if it's right for him or her.

malilou25
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: Anyone experienced reversing extraction treatment?

#17 Post by malilou25 »

after I had the extractions, the upper and the lower teeth were all pushed backwards with a headgear.
By misaligned bite I meant that the midline of my upper teeth did not match with the midline of my lower teeth (I don't know the technical word for it), but I had a class I jaw relationship and I think that now I have a class II jaw relationship.

sunyanting23
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:00 am

Re: Anyone experienced reversing extraction treatment?

#18 Post by sunyanting23 »

Teeth extraction case just shows how crappy the ortho or dentist is! No matter if you have overbite or underbite, the true problem is that your maxillary or mandibular arch is not wide enough. The shape of the arch should be "U" shape, not "V" shape. Teeth extraction will result in narrower arch. Your face will lack enough support for sure, and your bite will most likely in a correct position, which causes health problems!

There are so many orthos out there extract people's teeth! They are either lack of expertise or simply want to finish the cases more quickly! Do they care that your health is associated with the number of live teeth you have? Do they feel bothered if your face collapsed later? Will they suffer TMJ pain, breathing problems..... for you later in your life? The answer is NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THEREFORE, DO YOURSELF FAVOR! DO NOT LET THEM EXTRACT YOUR TEETH! GO SOMEWHERE AND FIND A COMPETENT DOCTOR!

sirwired
Posts: 2104
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:05 am

Re: Anyone experienced reversing extraction treatment?

#19 Post by sirwired »

sunyanting23 wrote:Teeth extraction case just shows how crappy the ortho or dentist is! No matter if you have overbite or underbite, the true problem is that your maxillary or mandibular arch is not wide enough. The shape of the arch should be "U" shape, not "V" shape. Teeth extraction will result in narrower arch. Your face will lack enough support for sure, and your bite will most likely in a correct position, which causes health problems!

There are so many orthos out there extract people's teeth! They are either lack of expertise or simply want to finish the cases more quickly! Do they care that your health is associated with the number of live teeth you have? Do they feel bothered if your face collapsed later? Will they suffer TMJ pain, breathing problems..... for you later in your life? The answer is NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THEREFORE, DO YOURSELF FAVOR! DO NOT LET THEM EXTRACT YOUR TEETH! GO SOMEWHERE AND FIND A COMPETENT DOCTOR!
To avoid extraction, the arch must be of sufficient end-to-end length. While some expansion of the arch can be obtained via expanders or related devices, their utility is limited and prone to relapse, especially in adults. There are some cases where extraction is simply the only viable option that will deliver the desired long-term results. There exist no "magic" solutions to create supporting bone for a proper archform where none exists.

Tooth extraction does not inherently result in a narrower arch; the shape of your jawbone is independent of how many teeth reside in it. It's "set" around the time your permanent teeth come in (though can be modified to some extent via orthodontics) and won't change even if you were to lose every single tooth. Excess extractions or tooth loss do cause recession of the underlying bone, reducing facial definition (i.e. Denture Face), and cause teeth to tip in, but the jaw shape remains unchanged.

To be sure, unnecessary extractions have been done by some orthodontists, and conversely, some orthodontists don't extract teeth when they need to, causing an unstable result.

To say that every orthodontist that extracts teeth is incompetent is just as incorrect as saying braces always require extraction.

kennyandrew85
Posts: 365
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:51 am

Re: Anyone experienced reversing extraction treatment?

#20 Post by kennyandrew85 »

It really angers me when I see uneducated posters saying tooth extractions cause health issues.

It makes me sad to think someone has read one of these posts and believed the scare mongering and not gone ahead with braces.
Brace Date: 14th April 2011
Estimated Debrace Date: 14th April 2013
Real Debrace Date 18th June 2013

4 extractions, upper ceramic brackets and lower metal to fix overjet and overcrowding.

Ciara
Posts: 762
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:46 pm
Location: Japan

Re: Anyone experienced reversing extraction treatment?

#21 Post by Ciara »

sirwired wrote:
To avoid extraction, the arch must be of sufficient end-to-end length. While some expansion of the arch can be obtained via expanders or related devices, their utility is limited and prone to relapse, especially in adults. There are some cases where extraction is simply the only viable option that will deliver the desired long-term results. There exist no "magic" solutions to create supporting bone for a proper archform where none exists.

Tooth extraction does not inherently result in a narrower arch; the shape of your jawbone is independent of how many teeth reside in it. It's "set" around the time your permanent teeth come in (though can be modified to some extent via orthodontics) and won't change even if you were to lose every single tooth. Excess extractions or tooth loss do cause recession of the underlying bone, reducing facial definition (i.e. Denture Face), and cause teeth to tip in, but the jaw shape remains unchanged.

To be sure, unnecessary extractions have been done by some orthodontists, and conversely, some orthodontists don't extract teeth when they need to, causing an unstable result.

To say that every orthodontist that extracts teeth is incompetent is just as incorrect as saying braces always require extraction.
Very well said, sirwired!

JumpTheDitch
Posts: 533
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:57 am
Location: Australia

Re: Anyone experienced reversing extraction treatment?

#22 Post by JumpTheDitch »

I'm currently in the process of trying to reverse prior extraction treatment after TMJ issues began during extraction ortho treatment, worsened over the following 6 or so years, culminating in literally constant headaches, migraines, balance issues and overall poor health (sleep apnea, narrowed airway, reduced tongue space, torus on both palates developed post-debracing retainers, etc).

My original ortho was very experienced and highly regarded in a renowned capital-city university but it seems his choice of treatment for my original overjet and overbite (extraction of two upper second bicuspids, with powerchain and elastic retraction) was not necessarily the route all ortho's would have taken given my circumstances. Given that I had no crowding, only overjet and overbite, I have since discovered extraction is not necessarily the only treatment option in my case.

Since my TMJ issues became unbearable I have consulted two separate NM dentists, as well as a specialist cranio-facial chiro that my own chiro referred me to. To be honest I was not convinced their (unanimous) diagnoses could really be the answer for me; surely teeth placement that visually looked great couldn't really cause such spiralling poor health. From the minute the TMJ splint was fitted, my headaches have literally gone from unremitting to occasional faint echoes, and my spatial reasoning and balance have returned. To my (delighted) surprise, I really feel much better. The splint that seemed totally unwearable at first, is now something I couldn't close my mouth without.

So I am left with a decision to make. The TMJ splint is not a complete answer, nor is it a long-term solution to my problems. As a single mum of two small kids, I simply cannot manage going back to feeling the way I was before the splint. It is frightening to witness your health deteriorate and become unable to manage daily life, seemingly without any reason (how lucky I feel that I was able to find healthcare providers that could figure it out). Which means I have to make the right decision now to try to permanently reverse the ill-effects of my ortho treatment, where all my TMJ issues can be traced from; whether the extractions themselves have caused the problem or not, I still need to find an answer. I am hoping the answer doesn't have to be implants for the rest of my life, but if that road lies the only way to returning to functioning human status, so be it.

My current practitioner is a dentist rather than an ortho; as braces2 mentioned, my (NM) dentist has a more holistic approach, taking into consideration how all the pieces of machinery in the human body work in relation to each other, and the effects they have on each other. My original ortho didn't seem to have any interest when I mentioned during treatment that my jaw had started 'clicking' and causing issues, grinding, etc, so I am encouraged by the dentist's approach!

So my current treatment plan involves TMJ splint therapy for 3 months (to decompress the TMJs, allow my 'slipped' discs to return to normal functioning position, give my jaw and facial muscles a chance to recover and find my comfortable bite), followed by ALF expander and braces (again) to bring my maxillary arch back to a more forward position (hopefully reversing the now narrowed airway, and give me back some space for my tongue). As I still have all 4 wisdom teeth, we are hoping to bring the upper molars forward into the extraction spaces, rather than implants if possible. I am hoping this will also help with the Sleep Apnea I've now been diagnosed with; my ultimate goal is a return to health and function of my TMJs without any appliances or sleep apnea splints at all.

I did wonder at the time when I was getting braces, and the ortho suddenly decided to extract teeth at the last minute after actually placing the brackets on them and then suddenly removing (the brackets), just how indicated it was since he'd never mentioned extractions before. But I trusted his vast experience and training. I couldn't see how removing teeth from one arch only and retracting the remaining teeth would fit functionally with a full compliment of teeth in the corresponding arch.

I have no ortho or dental training, but when I hear these discussions re extractions vs non-extractions, I can only be influenced by my own detrimental experience with extractions. I think it depends very much on the reason for your extractions. Extractions for crowding may make sense based on basic physics. Where overjet/overbite are concerned perhaps there are other options to consider. What might appear to one person to be an overjet, may actually be viewed as an underdeveloped mandibular arch (as I've since been told by 3 seperate specialists that I have), which would surely be particularly susceptible to TMJ issues if forced further back into the TMJ by extraction/retraction? In general, I wonder whether extracting a corresponding number of teeth from each arch would go further to maintain a healthy jaw-to-jaw function relationship?

My two cents worth, though it's costing me a damn sight more than 2c to have my original ortho treatment reversed :(
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cranberry
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:23 pm

Re: Anyone experienced reversing extraction treatment?

#23 Post by cranberry »

I have. It's not pleasant. The last person who worked on me actually made me worse. He was extremely expensive and was trying to rip me off. Luckily, I caught things in time and just found someone else to fix his mess. Please be careful when choosing orthodontist. There is one in particular that works out of Westlake Village, Ca. that I would stay away from, if I were you.

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