Approach difference US/europe?

Message

#16 Post by **butterfly** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:49 am

Svensk Tiger wrote: I was wondering what you had seen/experienced to make you feel this way as I would say that it is certainly not a typical view.

I experienced two different cultures and see many differences between them - probably I exaggerate to make them more obvious! Anyone here who moved to the US to comment on this?

#17 Post by **LoobyLou** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:30 pm

After reading all these posts I'm afraid I'm still no closer to understanding what you're getting at Butterfly...I thought you wanted to know if there were general differences between European and US attitudes about braces but you seem to have veered off the subject somewhat and seem to be digging to find something deeper! May I ask which European country you have previously lived in? As far as I know the NHS only exists in the UK... Are you feeling satisfied by the answers you're getting or are we not getting your jist?

LoobyLou x

PS Lucyloop I soooooo know what you mean about the hand car wash!!!!!

#18 Post by **weird_wired** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:56 pm

There clearly is a different attitude towards teeth in the US and UK, though it may be changing. Certainly in the UK ultra-perfect teeth have never been the critical thing they have been in the US - witness all the "bad teeth" jokes that Americans make about Brits.

It's not the only difference: as has been noted in previous posts, communal orthodontry rooms are common in the US, but virtually unheard of (certainly for private treatment) in the UK.

Another difference I wonder about is flossing. I don't remember a lot of emphasis on flossing when I grew up in the UK, but many Americans here seem much more into it. My orthodontist is French-trained, and he doesn't seem to care very much about it. I still do it, of course (when I can!)

Cosmetic surgery rates in the UK are increasing, but I think it can still be stated that the UK is still far less of a "silicone nation" than the US. So it does follow that UK people might feel more pressurised to "justify" their adult dental treatment.

#19 Post by **jennielee81** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:27 pm

The dental care isles in US drugstores are VERY large compared to what I saw in Quebec last year. I do floss a lot

And brush, and use fluoride rinse and...

I got braces for cosmetic reasons.

I paid every penny of the $5,000 out of my own pocket.

If it had been for medical reasons, I would have hoped for insurance coverage but would NOT have gotten a single dime from insurance; not an option with what is available through the US federal goverment employee insurance plans. Seems adult ortho coverage is very different for everyone in the US...even my kids weren't covered at all with our insurance.

I do know that in our school system, the teachers recommend low-income students who need braces to the county (or is it the state?) and if they qualify financially, they get braces for free or at a reduced cost. This is very nice!

IMHO...

#20 Post by **Gel** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:54 pm

Interesting subjects from all. I thought I would join into the discussion. I have traveled a little. And during those travels I taught English in Russia. While that was an amzing experience, I think that It made me realize how lucky I am to have everything I do. I'm not saying that the U.S. is better than any other country, but it's waht I know and cherish. Yeah, my health plan could definately be better, but it only cost $32 a month for both me and my husband, however, anything connecting with orthodontic work is only covered for children up to the age of 15. Doesn't help me at all. Everything else with the insurance is great, and especially for $16 dollars off of every check, (get's paid every other week) I would say that is darn good.

As for things different in other countries, I would say to be proud of your nationality! Be happy with what you do have. there are so many people who have so much less. Just be grateful that you have every opportunity that you have been given.

#21 Post by **butterfly** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:21 am

Thanks for all your posts! It's very interesting to read your impressions and opinions. For the record: There is no European country to my knowledge which does not have a state based health care system on the same principles like the British NHS (the line between "ok - granted care" and "not granted care - pay it yourself" is clearly drawn between "medically necessary" and "cosmetic" while in other US influenced countries there are many insurance companies (free businesses) you choose from which offer different plans with varying coverages.)

#22 Post by **Svensk Tiger** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:10 am

Lucyloop wrote:...Butterfly...

I'm starting to feel a bit lost - I don't really understand what it is exactly you are trying to get at.

Your comments about the NHS are very black & white. Anyone who lives over here will understand me when I say that it really doesn't feel like that. I'm yet to come across anyone who has been told - go and pay for it yourself! Some people do, of course, to avoid the loooooooong waiting lists (and they are long), but there isn't this refusal of treatment that you seem to think is happening. A lot of cosmetic treatment is carried out on the NHS anyway via referrals from GPs.

In fact, the NHS covers most things that are excluded on private healthcare policies. My wisdom teeth surgery being one of them!

As I said before, the NHS does have a lot of good points, but it is just poorly run & has decsended in to chaos in recent years. Doesn't mean to say that I'm not glad it doesn't exist though!!....It just needs a huge kick up the bum to get it sorted!!

Hope that clarifies things a bit!.... Any other UK people got any views?

Take care

LUCY xxx

I agree Lucy. I'd like to add more to my earlier comments, which essentially were saying the same as you've just said yourself, but I'm getting a little confused now as I'm not sure what exactly we're discussing anymore! I can't quite see what Butterfly is trying to get at or where these odd views of the NHS have come from.

Butterfly, if you could clarify where this view of the NHS has come from i'd be most grateful, I think I'm not the only one getting confused too!

#23 Post by **LoobyLou** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:20 am

Ditto - I'm completely lost.

#24 Post by **Megera_S** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:51 am

If the whole point is to talk about healthcare practices in different countries then I'll put my 2Â¢ in...

I don't think people should look down on countries that have government run healthcare or what we call in Canada "universal healthcare". That means everyone no matter your age, sex, religion, ethnic grouping or sexual preference can get healthcare. Sure, some things aren't covered like prescription medication and dentistry but all major things are - CT scans, hospital visits, doctors visits etc. And sure there can be waiting lists on things that aren't life threatening (but really only if you're in a major centre). You can get additional coverage through your workplace or you can register on your own behalf (that can cover partial or all of your Rx drugs, any dentist stuff etc). The Drs here never decide that you don't get a proceedure just because you don't have extra coverage. And your extra coverage doesn't entitle you to jump the queue.

I honestly think it's wrong when a government of a well-to-do country doesn't offer it's citizens the very basic of health services. And I'd hate to have to worry about doctors visits etc because I couldn't afford insurance. I know A LOT of poeple (not in Canada) that are severely in debt because they didn't have health insurance and something unexpected has happened like a heart attack, stroke or even a car accident. It's a shame when a family has to sell their home (or have it taken away) because they can't afford to pay thousands of dollars in medical bills.

And if your topic is about different views about people getting braces or other "cosmetic" surgery then really, I think for a good part of it, it's going to come down to personal experience. You could've had a bad experience and now believe that "all people in Europe think this way_____" or "all people in the US think this ________"... While every day life is full of generalizations it's really important to remember that it's just that - a generalization. Not all people are going to conform to your beliefs. Unless you took a poll or had some sort of numbers or research behind you theres no way you could say "All Europeans are like this ____". But you could say something like "from my experience this is how I see it _______" and then be prepared for people to disagree with you.

#25 Post by **butterfly** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:39 am

I don't understand why some people seem to be offended because I made generalizations. In my first post I clearly said I wanted to discuss trends and different approaches in different countries. It should be self evident that such a discussion is basically a generalization and nothing else. That's what sociological questions are all about!

So I apologize to anyone who felt offended. That wasn't the intention at all.

#26 Post by **weird_wired** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:38 pm

I certainly wasn't offended. I think it's a very valid topic of discussion.

#27 Post by **Megera_S** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:32 pm

I wasn't either... But I was just trying to point out that if you make sweeping generalizations in a large group of people there is usually always going to be someone that will step up and disagree with you and be "the exception to the rule".

#28 Post by **Svensk Tiger** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:40 pm

I don't think anyone was offended, more confused as to what you were getting at with your posts. Can I ask again why you have such a strange view of the NHS? Not at all offended just curious as your view is clearly the minority opinion.

#29 Post by **happyhelen** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:35 am

[color=darkblue]

just thought i would add my bit to the debate!!
firstly would like to say Thank you to everyone as i love thi site and it gets me through my brace days!!

secondly i would also like to say i am biased as i love the NHS. i am so proud to have it and pay my taxes to contribute to it. Yes its flawed, its got its issues but its there. And i am proud that anyone can get treatment. It may be controversial but at least its there.

I got my braces out of my bank account at the cost of 5k. Purely they are for me, i wanted straight teeth. My brother got his for free even though his were 'cosmetic' too.
The moral of my little addition to this rant?

Each patient is individual. Every set of brace and there multitude of reasons for getting them (NHS/ private) is individual.

I am much more concerned with such issues as this; I went away this weekend and my brace was detected on the hand metal detector the man used. Hhahah i laughed my metal head off all the flight home[/color]

#30 Post by **halo** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:25 am

Lucyloop wrote:We also have a huge problem with illegal immigrants over here too, who often only come over here to get free health care, housing and welfare benefit, whilst often running crime gangs in their free time. A lot of these illegals are young men who are not fleeing from persecution, but are cashing in on a bad and easy to abuse system. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but statistically that is fairly accurate. I've not got any problems with GENUINE asylum seekers, but the "illegals" enter the UK on the backs of lorries, which says it all. They also travel through at least 3 or 4 other "safe" countries before getting here, but nowhere else throws money at them like the UK. Anyone else over here will probably understand what I mean when I say - look down the local hand car-wash!

Are you an avid Daily Mail reader, Lucy?

Illegal immigrants rarely get free health care, housing and welfare benefit to my knowledge. You need an NHS card for the first thing, and a NI number for the other two, unless you personally know anyone? As for easy to abuse system, I watched my legally-here-and-working girlfriend attempt to get her NHS card sorted out when she was admitted to St Mary's A&E a few months ago. It may not be closed to abuse, but people don't just walk in and get healthy.

Statistically fairly accurate? I call b******t - sorry Lucy - there's certainly illegal immigrants driving our taxis, cleaning our offices and hotels, and working on the street, but I find the assertion that we're throwing money at them basically untrue. My local car wash is populated by Kosovans - very nice chaps and would probably be rightly distressed if I made unfounded remarks about them.

The NHS is up and down in the UK - sometimes you get great healthcare, sometimes you don't. Unlike the US, of course, where a broken leg could ruin you without insurance, you are guaranteed to be fixed (somehow) here, and I'm grateful for that. Modern healthcare is expensive, whoever pays for it.

People here are not as obsessive with dental engineering as our American cousins - perhaps us Brits should be a little more concerned and perhaps Americans should be a little less, but that is life.

Apologies for harshness of rant, nothing personal, but I can't read this stuff and *not* say something

Metal Mouth Message Board

Approach difference US/europe?

my two pence worth