I think that is true, because many people go to school pre-med somewhere and then work as a paramedic or nurse-type job before med school, either because they can't get into very competitive med school without the experience, or they need to make some money first.jimmy18 wrote:I think that EMTs and paramedics are paid less because of the amount of schooling they have to go through. I am not exactly sure how much they go through but (correct me if I am wrong) I think it is less that the 10-12 years that Doctors have to do.
A letter to my ortho
Moderator: bbsadmin
it can take as little as two years to becaome an emt/paramedic after high school. it takes 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, and 3-8 years of residency (where a doc does not get paid much at all) for a doctor.
a dentist requires 4 years of college, 3 years of dental school, and a year to two of orthodontic fellowship before hanging up their shingle and going to work.
and dont forget that a doctor or dentists overhead cost can be as high as 60 percent of their gross income.
no i dont work for either. and yes they are ALL noble proffessions.
lets applaude those who work hard to acheive their carear goals, and not be envious or resentful. these people help us when we have problems with our most precious possesion- our health
just my two cents
chris
a dentist requires 4 years of college, 3 years of dental school, and a year to two of orthodontic fellowship before hanging up their shingle and going to work.
and dont forget that a doctor or dentists overhead cost can be as high as 60 percent of their gross income.
no i dont work for either. and yes they are ALL noble proffessions.
lets applaude those who work hard to acheive their carear goals, and not be envious or resentful. these people help us when we have problems with our most precious possesion- our health
just my two cents
chris
-
Chocoholic
- Posts: 173
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 9:11 pm
Back ON topic:
I think it was OK to write a letter with your views, but the structure of such letters is very important and it does come across as a bit of a whinge.
You could have prepared yourself for braces by doing some research into the different types of braces available and talking to people about their experiences with the pain and so on before hand.
Anything like this is invasive, or course it is, you're putting foreign objects into your mouth, it's not always going to be easy, and I think you'd be very misguided to think that.
Before I had my braces, I did an initial consultation, talked about the treatment plan, then I went away for a few weeks and thought about it, I used the time to find as much information and talk to as many people as possible before making up my mind.
I have both metal and ceramic braces, and both cut into my mouth like anything, but it's just part of the process.
I think the only real issue you had was with the expired wax material, and the fact that he might not have given you as much information as you required, but you should have asked! There was stopping you from doing some research, compiling a list of questions and sitting down with the guy and going through your concerns.
With anything like this, I don't believe you can ask too many questions. You as a patient also have a duty to be well informed about your treatment, but many orthos are not overly forthcoming with information, I get the feeling that's why they like treating children - they don't ask anything! You have a responsibility as a patient to be aware of what your treatment involves.
I think it was OK to write a letter with your views, but the structure of such letters is very important and it does come across as a bit of a whinge.
You could have prepared yourself for braces by doing some research into the different types of braces available and talking to people about their experiences with the pain and so on before hand.
Anything like this is invasive, or course it is, you're putting foreign objects into your mouth, it's not always going to be easy, and I think you'd be very misguided to think that.
Before I had my braces, I did an initial consultation, talked about the treatment plan, then I went away for a few weeks and thought about it, I used the time to find as much information and talk to as many people as possible before making up my mind.
I have both metal and ceramic braces, and both cut into my mouth like anything, but it's just part of the process.
I think the only real issue you had was with the expired wax material, and the fact that he might not have given you as much information as you required, but you should have asked! There was stopping you from doing some research, compiling a list of questions and sitting down with the guy and going through your concerns.
With anything like this, I don't believe you can ask too many questions. You as a patient also have a duty to be well informed about your treatment, but many orthos are not overly forthcoming with information, I get the feeling that's why they like treating children - they don't ask anything! You have a responsibility as a patient to be aware of what your treatment involves.
Hmm, not quite the response I thought I would get. Was looking for a bit of support, and perhaps a bit of empathy.
What you didn't see or get from the letter was the history and previous telephone conversations.
Be that as it may, was just feeling a little miserable and a little sorry for myself. Thought this was a support board, thought I would post the letter and have a bit of a laugh and a bond, guess I misunderstood.
Admin, would you mind deleting this entire threat. All those negative comments - not so nice to read (ouch!) There is a nice way of saying "perhaps you could have worded the letter differently" and a not so nice way.
Good luck to you all, it's been interesting seeing how different cultures operate.
T
What you didn't see or get from the letter was the history and previous telephone conversations.
Be that as it may, was just feeling a little miserable and a little sorry for myself. Thought this was a support board, thought I would post the letter and have a bit of a laugh and a bond, guess I misunderstood.
Admin, would you mind deleting this entire threat. All those negative comments - not so nice to read (ouch!) There is a nice way of saying "perhaps you could have worded the letter differently" and a not so nice way.
Good luck to you all, it's been interesting seeing how different cultures operate.
T
Tertia:
I think that most of us here were trying to gently give you a direction to go with this. The fact of the matter is that your letter is extremely juvenile and needs to be refined if not completely re written.
I personally take offense to your response telling all of us and my "culture", as you put it, that we are not supportive.
Possibly some writing classes through a college extension could help you with this?
As to the deletion of this thread, rather than sticking your head in the sand, you can always choose not to read it. This is how we operate in my "culture"
Take care.
I think that most of us here were trying to gently give you a direction to go with this. The fact of the matter is that your letter is extremely juvenile and needs to be refined if not completely re written.
I personally take offense to your response telling all of us and my "culture", as you put it, that we are not supportive.
Possibly some writing classes through a college extension could help you with this?
As to the deletion of this thread, rather than sticking your head in the sand, you can always choose not to read it. This is how we operate in my "culture"
Take care.
Pat
Class III tendency, crossbite 10-23
Maxillary horizontal & 2mm deficiency for upper teeth
GAC In-Ovation R, metal. Now with upper & lower Hawleys 24 hrs.
Tertia wrote:Hmm, not quite the response I thought I would get. Was looking for a bit of support, and perhaps a bit of empathy.
What you didn't see or get from the letter was the history and previous telephone conversations.
Be that as it may, was just feeling a little miserable and a little sorry for myself. Thought this was a support board, thought I would post the letter and have a bit of a laugh and a bond, guess I misunderstood.
Admin, would you mind deleting this entire threat. All those negative comments - not so nice to read (ouch!) There is a nice way of saying "perhaps you could have worded the letter differently" and a not so nice way.
Good luck to you all, it's been interesting seeing how different cultures operate.
T
Tertia, I think it's about time you grow up. I really don't mean to be rude, but the responses you received were extremely supportive and most of the members expressed their opinions very politely. Had this been any other bulletin board, you would have been flamed good.
Based on this thread alone, I sense that you are immature and selfish. The proper response would have been to thank the archwired community for their suggestions, not to ask the admin to delete the thread and disparage us and our culture. We come from around the world, by the way.
Last edited by shinyam on Fri Dec 23, 2005 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wow, I haven't checked this thread in awhile! Obviously some feathers have been ruffled in the meantime. 
Just glancing back through, it seems like we may just all be misunderstanding each other (an easy circumstance for a message board, no?) It sounds like there may be more to Tertia's story that we didn't hear, so perhaps that's clouding judgement. And maybe not--I don't know. More importantly, it's reassuring to know that so many people have had such great experiences with their orthos that they are quick to jump to their (collective) defense. This message board is really great and supportive--more than many others online as someone pointed out. Let's just remember that we are all coming from different countries, native languages, age groups, financial situations, life experiences, etc...all of which can have an effect on the way we feel about ortho-related experiences and how our postings come across.
Thanks, all. Happy Holidays!
Just glancing back through, it seems like we may just all be misunderstanding each other (an easy circumstance for a message board, no?) It sounds like there may be more to Tertia's story that we didn't hear, so perhaps that's clouding judgement. And maybe not--I don't know. More importantly, it's reassuring to know that so many people have had such great experiences with their orthos that they are quick to jump to their (collective) defense. This message board is really great and supportive--more than many others online as someone pointed out. Let's just remember that we are all coming from different countries, native languages, age groups, financial situations, life experiences, etc...all of which can have an effect on the way we feel about ortho-related experiences and how our postings come across.
Thanks, all. Happy Holidays!
four bicuspids removed 1/3/06
clear uppers and metal lowers placed 1/5/06
timeframe for braces: 24-30 months
-
Kittysopretty
- Posts: 140
- Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 6:56 pm
I agree with Yiiikes. I honestly thought that letter was written by a 12 year old and if I were the ortho, I'd remove the braces entirely and suggest the patient find treatment elsewhere. The letter was unprofessional, demanding, and whining. I hate to be critical but how else was he to prepare you? What do you mean that you didn't know how invasive it is? If you are an adult, truly you had to realize that when you get braces (metal or ceramics) it's going to consist of pain, etc. Teeth don't just pleasantly glide into the placement you want. This boggles my mind. With your attitude I can't believe you even chose to get them in the first place! Before I got braced the second time around I did massive internet research and questioned 2 people I know who are adults with ceramics. And telling him to cut his lunch short......omg!
I have an amazing ortho who even called me at home the night I got my braces to check on me BUT I must tell you that you were given more info than me regarding the ceramics. I was simply told "they're beautiful" which they are. I have the ones with hooks also. I wish you luck, but feel that if you are treated well now by your ortho it is probably through gritted teeth.
I have an amazing ortho who even called me at home the night I got my braces to check on me BUT I must tell you that you were given more info than me regarding the ceramics. I was simply told "they're beautiful" which they are. I have the ones with hooks also. I wish you luck, but feel that if you are treated well now by your ortho it is probably through gritted teeth.
And one of the biggest problems I have here is that we DID give a lot of support just a month ago when the trauma of being braced was at its fullest:
viewtopic.php?p=53214&highlight=#53214
viewtopic.php?p=53214&highlight=#53214
Wow!!! You guys DID give alot of support to her! Oh well.....Ya' know, she'll look back on her life ten years from now (as we all do) and realize that what we are trying to get across is, for the most part, true. I am certain this lack of personal responsibility is a common thread in everyday life for her.
After looking at the pics of GreenCapt on the thread he linked, I doubt that she (or most of us!) has much to complain about. That's alot of progress, GreenCapt!
Anyway, It's Christmas eve and I hope everyone is doing well. Tertia, if you are reading: I hope you are also doing well and just roll with the punches (to your mouth, that is!) as it will all be fine in the end. What does not kill us makes us stronger.
Merry Christmas and Happy Celebration of whatever or whenever it is that you celebrate!!
After looking at the pics of GreenCapt on the thread he linked, I doubt that she (or most of us!) has much to complain about. That's alot of progress, GreenCapt!
Anyway, It's Christmas eve and I hope everyone is doing well. Tertia, if you are reading: I hope you are also doing well and just roll with the punches (to your mouth, that is!) as it will all be fine in the end. What does not kill us makes us stronger.
Merry Christmas and Happy Celebration of whatever or whenever it is that you celebrate!!
Pat
Class III tendency, crossbite 10-23
Maxillary horizontal & 2mm deficiency for upper teeth
GAC In-Ovation R, metal. Now with upper & lower Hawleys 24 hrs.
-
Chocoholic
- Posts: 173
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 9:11 pm
I don't think anyone replying to this thread said anything offensive, but some people just can't take constructive criticism. I think virtually all the replies had at least one positive comment in them. Sometimes it's useful to hear other peoples perspectives, good or bad, it's all valid.
Certainly if I wasn't happy with my treatment then I would be sure to discuss it with my ortho, but there are ways and means of doing things. If you're going to write a letter, then best leave it for a bit, go back to it and see if it's still relevent.
I don't think 'Culture' has anything to do with the replies. We're from all over the world on this forum, I'm English, but I live in Dubai, UAE! So what! It doesn't matter where we come from or what our backgrounds are, we all have one thing in common in this forum. We're all undertaking the same journey for better teeth. Peoples experiences are all going to be different and I for one find it very interesting to see what others are going through.
Anyway, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year - I hope we all get teeth perfection in 2006!
Certainly if I wasn't happy with my treatment then I would be sure to discuss it with my ortho, but there are ways and means of doing things. If you're going to write a letter, then best leave it for a bit, go back to it and see if it's still relevent.
I don't think 'Culture' has anything to do with the replies. We're from all over the world on this forum, I'm English, but I live in Dubai, UAE! So what! It doesn't matter where we come from or what our backgrounds are, we all have one thing in common in this forum. We're all undertaking the same journey for better teeth. Peoples experiences are all going to be different and I for one find it very interesting to see what others are going through.
Anyway, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year - I hope we all get teeth perfection in 2006!
-
braceface1230
- Posts: 189
- Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:34 pm
I think she's upset with those who she feels, were overly critical of her, for the exact same reason her ortho may not be so happy with her right now. It seems to me that she can dish it out, but she can't take it. Maybe I put it a little too harshly. But what does she expect from her ortho? He warned her that ceramics aren't as strong; one snapped off right away (he was right, not as strong). He warned her that they are bulkier. Seems to me she just didn't listen to his advise and wanted it "her way." I know we want to feel that we have a perfect grasp on everything we're doing, but that's pretty unrealistic.
The ortho's not a mind reader. He may be great at moving teeth, but that doesn't mean that he's any good at anticipating every concern you have. He's your ortho and is very busy, and asking him to sacrifice his lunch (probably the only time in 10 hrs that he doesn't have to deal with us somewhat difficult adults, and most certainly those brain dead kids!) is incredibly selfish. To write a letter to someone telling them that their time, training, and most sincere efforts aren't up to par with your expectations would cut into anyone. I think you owe your ortho a much deserved apology. He works hard treating hundreds of kids and can't be expected to explain every single minut detail on every procedure to every one of them. So if he fails to live up to your preconceived notion of what an ortho should do for you, try to remember that you aren't the center of his practice. And that even though you don't understand why he does something, there's probably a pretty good reason for it. And if you have a question, ask him to his face. And before you ask him, make sure you don't already have the only answer you'll accept stuck in your head. Try to trust that he knows what he's doing. And if he's shown to be untrustworthy, find a different ortho. But I'm sure he/she'll use the same approach to moving teeth... braces with lots of hooks that are uncomfortable.
I definately have to shut up now.
The ortho's not a mind reader. He may be great at moving teeth, but that doesn't mean that he's any good at anticipating every concern you have. He's your ortho and is very busy, and asking him to sacrifice his lunch (probably the only time in 10 hrs that he doesn't have to deal with us somewhat difficult adults, and most certainly those brain dead kids!) is incredibly selfish. To write a letter to someone telling them that their time, training, and most sincere efforts aren't up to par with your expectations would cut into anyone. I think you owe your ortho a much deserved apology. He works hard treating hundreds of kids and can't be expected to explain every single minut detail on every procedure to every one of them. So if he fails to live up to your preconceived notion of what an ortho should do for you, try to remember that you aren't the center of his practice. And that even though you don't understand why he does something, there's probably a pretty good reason for it. And if you have a question, ask him to his face. And before you ask him, make sure you don't already have the only answer you'll accept stuck in your head. Try to trust that he knows what he's doing. And if he's shown to be untrustworthy, find a different ortho. But I'm sure he/she'll use the same approach to moving teeth... braces with lots of hooks that are uncomfortable.
I definately have to shut up now.