The real deal with Damon?

[jcdamon3]

I have had damon3 brackets now for 8 months and have not had even one issue with them. My mouth was sore for awhile but you have to be patient with that with any type of bracket.

I had one "emergency" appointment to clip a wire (which was not an emergency), but have not had any issues with brackets falling off, wires coming out or my doors not opening. I like my braces as much as I possibly can and have made "peace" with them, which is something that takes time as well.

[Betty Bat]

I've had Damons (and I'm pretty sure that they are Damon 2's, but I've never asked - just looked at the pictures of Damon 2's and 3's on the web) since October. I'm one of the people who has had some problems with them). I'm 53, one of the older members of the board. I've had braces since October and I go in for adjustments every 4 weeks. So far, I've had 2 sets of new wires since my initial bracing. I've gotten some new wire about every other month. So, I'm not really sure how this compares what other folks say about frequency of adjustments.

I also had big problems with opening and closing the Damons the last time my lower wire was changed. Both the assistant and the ortho worked at it for a while. And, when my upper wire was changed last week, I needed to get a new bracket because the wire wouldn't fit in the bracket - there was something wrong with the Damon bracket.

I don't really have much to compare my experience with - this is my first time in braces! I have sapphire brackets on the uppers and Damons on the lowers. I actually think it's easier to keep the sapphires clean and free from plaque. But, it could be just because the upper teeth are less succeptible to it than the lowers.

So, bottom line is that I'm OK with the Damons so far, but I really hope that there aren't more problems with the opening and closing. That made me very nervous.

[twinklehunkydory]

twinklehunkydory, the best piece of advice you can take away from this thread is that you should not be shopping for an orthodontist based on the brand of brackets he uses - as Leslie022 said, and has been said again and again and again on these forums, it's not the brand of bracket, but the skill of the ortho that matters.

You should ask your dentist for a referral to an ortho - if you are uncomfortable doing so, you can always cite as your reason that you are uncomfortable with the idea of extractions, and would like to explore whether there are other options open to you. Your dentist (based on what you say about him) should understand this concern, and should be a great first place to start on finding a really good ortho. (There's a lot of debate about regular dentists who provide ortho vs orthodontists - bottom line is the latter have extra training and above all a lot more experience, so they are generally far better at diagnosis, and offering the most appropriate treatment plan). If you can possibly manage it, get more than one consultation - different docs will quite often suggest different treatment plans for the very same mouth! It doesn't mean one isn't valid, it's just that there are a lot of shades of grey. If there are different possible courses of treatment, a really good ortho would discuss possible options and point out the pros and cons to each so that you can make a really informed decision.

One nice thing is that you don't have to get them "adjusted" so unless your ortho changes the wire, they just keep doing their thing.

This is pretty much the same for any modern fixed brace (ie not Invisalign type) - ceramic or metal, self-ligating or not. I've seen a few posts on Archwired from folks getting very impatient because they've gone in for an appointment and only had the ties changed, or had nothing done at all! I have ceramics (with rubber ligature ties) on the upper arch and self-ligating metal brackets (GAC In-Ovations) on the lower arch and they've both been much the same in terms of adjustment - perhaps the uppers have needed slightly more frequent visits, but other than that it's all the same really - it barely even takes the assistants any more time to deal with the ligs than doors - or more accurately, given they can change the ligs in about 2 minutes flat, I don't see any time savings with doors as being significant enough to care about! It's the lowers that have caused me two "emergency" visits for wandering wires too, so in the end I think it all comes to the same for me timewise.

So yeah - to the main point - shop around for an ortho, not a bracket system. And you'll find a lot of posts on the forums about what matters in choosing an ortho.

Good luck!!

very good points, all of them. I think I got hung up on damons because no other system I'd heard of was so confidant and open about reducing the need for extraction (tho that's probably down to their promotion than anything else).

The brackets are no use if the ortho doesn't 'fit' so to speak. I just got a bee in my bonnet about the damons.

My dentist is a pretty by the book guy, I don't think he's ever referred anyone to get invisalign or damons or anything. Lets say where I'm from they're not exactly up on their technical advancements!

I think I'm going to be doomed to have an overbite for life, or face extraction. But seeing as I haven't had a consult yet I can't know for sure can I? Just need to haul my ass out to the dentist chair and see what he says and go from there.

[ingyandbert]

I had a consult 5 years before getting braced and at that time was told I'd need extractions. Now with the Damon technology, I haven't needed any extractions. I can also tell you that in just 2 months my arches have widened dramatically. So you don't necessarily need an expander to widen your arches.

[twinklehunkydory]

I had a consult 5 years before getting braced and at that time was told I'd need extractions. Now with the Damon technology, I haven't needed any extractions. I can also tell you that in just 2 months my arches have widened dramatically. So you don't necessarily need an expander to widen your arches.

I actually looked at some expanders from a link in another thread in this forum. They scared me... I don't think I'd have them in my mouth.

You see, when i was in my early teens my dentist took molds and xrays, i didnt know exactly what for. the subject of braces was raised. he mentionned it every time i went. i got to the stage where i told him that if he didn't stop mentionning braces I'd never go back. At that time i found out, via my parents, that my overbite would probably get worse etc, but I was having none of it.

I'm glad I'm waited, I think my mouth and face shape would have looked odd if I'd had it done the old way. No-one seemed to take my concerns about the effect it would have on the balance of my face seriously, and also the fact im terrified of needles, but I think it's an honest concern to have.

Damon seems to fit what im looking for, but im not an ortho, so obv i cant know for sure.

in the usa do you all have to pay for everything, from first consult (unless thers a special freebie) right thru all ur treatment? where i am u can get conventional braces for free, but anything else costs.... a lot.

[missingu]

Here's how finances work in the US without insurance. I don't have insurance so I don't know about that and not that many people I know have ortho coverage anyway.

Initial Consult: 75% will give it complimentary, regardless of your decision
25% charge from $35-60 USD, in my area, whether you
get braces or not, or even if they recommend no braces

Payment: Either a 25% downpayment, then the rest spread out over the
term of your braces, usually 28-24 months. No one charges
interest.

Or, if you pay in full, with a check (not credit card) you get
usually a 6-7% discount off the total price for doing that.

Or, if you pay in full with credit card you get a lesser discount,
usually around 3-5 % but these are subject to ortho office
policies.

The quotes I got ranged (USD) from $5,900 for metal with "social six" ceramic to the Damons at, yes, $7,755.

You can now see why the bracket and wire frustrations might be just a little bit more annoying than if it were the latter quote, or I had insurance.

For the record I did get Damon-debanded. The ortho was fine with it, offered me referrals and said if I had questions later on in my treatment, even elsewhere, to call, so I think he understood. He didn't try to convince me one way or another, and we basically just discussed our "differences" in what we value and how it was better to find things out now than 1 year down the road. They gave me a very equitable refund, all things considered, too and I think all went well (though they think I am pretty strange).

[twinklehunkydory]

That's pricey, but still less expensive than what it costs in the uk. I read a quote for £2500 to £5000 for damons at one private clinic on the net. That's about... $10 000 ish, maximum.

I phoned 7 orthos within travelling distance of me.

Of these:

one had never even heard of damons

two definitely don't offer it, but of these one did offer ceramic

one had heard of it, but didn't know much about it, altho they do offer ceramic and invisalign

two have yet to return my message

and One has used it in the past, and has most definitely heard of it, but say they rarely use damons, and the braces require special implements that they don't have at their surgery. I've to phone back for further info.

Slightly promising, but overall, not looking too hopeful is it.

[missingu]

In terms of conversion, UK 5000 is about 8,700 USD, so we are definitely talking big bucks in either country. I don't know if UK NHS covers braces when done at basic style, but here there is no choice but to pay, and orthos know that.

The new ortho I saw today, when I asked about Damon's said that they do move teeth faster at the outset, but down the road when the hard work comes in there isn't much difference.

He also posed an interesting question - if there are 10,000 orthodontists in the US and fewer than 7-8%, maybe even less, use them, is there a reason for that? The technology has been around since the late 1990s, too. Kind of interesting question.

He offered either ceramic or metal, but clinically contra-indicated Invisalign.

I actually do think the hardware is important to consider in selecting an ortho, in as much as the type of medication a MD tends to prescribe is as important as their interpersonal style. It all works together.

[twinklehunkydory]

In terms of conversion, UK 5000 is about 8,700 USD, so we are definitely talking big bucks in either country. I don't know if UK NHS covers braces when done at basic style, but here there is no choice but to pay, and orthos know that.

The new ortho I saw today, when I asked about Damon's said that they do move teeth faster at the outset, but down the road when the hard work comes in there isn't much difference.

He also posed an interesting question - if there are 10,000 orthodontists in the US and fewer than 7-8%, maybe even less, use them, is there a reason for that? The technology has been around since the late 1990s, too. Kind of interesting question.

He offered either ceramic or metal, but clinically contra-indicated Invisalign.

I actually do think the hardware is important to consider in selecting an ortho, in as much as the type of medication a MD tends to prescribe is as important as their interpersonal style. It all works together.

an interesting point, abotu the no. of people using them. technology always takes a few years to make it from u.s shores to the u.k, so i supose it shouldnt surprise me that so few people round here offer anything remotely modern in large no.s...

Basic NHS braces are free if you're under 18, or have exemption from fees. Thats probably why a lot of adults in the uk dont have braces, cause it costs for even the most basic kind from 18 plus.

I couldn't go to an ortho I didn't click with so to speak, even if he had the most revolutionary dental equipment around. Like you say, it all works together.

The haste of the movment with damon i supose comes into it, but with me, its more about avoiding extraction, thats my main concern.

[jcdamon3]

He also posed an interesting question - if there are 10,000 orthodontists in the US and fewer than 7-8%, maybe even less, use them, is there a reason for that? The technology has been around since the late 1990s, too. Kind of interesting question

I think that any technology takes a while to be adopted. How many of us have Tivo or Tivo like technology in our house? Well if you don't have it, it is totally awesome! It has been around for at least 5-6 years.

We do things the way we have always done it because, well it is the way we have always done it. Late 1990's is not a long time for adoption of a technology to occur. It took me a long time to buy a cell phone. I still don't like the darn thing! And I don't have one of those pesky handheld organizers!

Regarding the price. Mine were $6,500.00. I actually think I may have been charged slightly more because 1) I am an adult - we are tougher customers and complain more while kids tend to suffer in silence and not ask questions 2) They knew I had insurance

My Ortho has been in practice for a long time - in fact he may be ready to retire. But he took the plunge and started with the damons and now that is all he offers. His practice is 50% adults.

I like my damons and am very happy with my decision to get them.

[missingu]

Again, I think information is power, so I anticipated being one of the few to dislike the Damons, but I think history is interesting regardless.

For those into orthodontic history, the first self-ligating bracket was the "Russell Lock" and an article about it was published in "Int. J. of Orthod. Denti. Children" in 1935, Vol. 21, pp. 837-840 by J. Stolzenberg. He published another article in 1946, also about efficiency of Russell attachment.

Ormco (Damon's parent) designed the "Edgelock" in 1972, but things really didn't take off til the late 1980s and 1990s. Or 2000s...

(Not my own knowledge. Taken from article mentioned in previous message. Credit given where due.)

[jennielee81]

I have Damon 3's and I really like them. My kids have all (3 of them) had traditional braces and they've had more problems than I have. My son kept loosing brackets even though he was VERY careful with what he ate, my older daughter lost 1 bracket and had a wire snap. Myother daughter's ortho forgot to put ligs on 2 teeth and missed the wire completely on another!!! She's 11 and pointed this out to him before she left the office.

I'm one of the people who has had some problems with them). I'm 53, one of the older members of the board. I've had braces since October and I go in for adjustments every 4 weeks. So far, I've had 2 sets of new wires since my initial bracing. I've gotten some new wire about every other month. So, I'm not really sure how this compares what other folks say about frequency of adjustments.

Having wire changes isn't a problem! It's orthodontia!

We had a little trouble getting a thick wire into one of my back brackets but that was because the tube was clogged, this happens to my kids also. I've NEVER had trouble with the doors opening...maybe it's my toothpaste (it's a wierd one)

It's the skill of the ortho, NOT THE BRACKET!

I am very interrested in reading the on-line article about Damons but you didn't give us a link. I did a search and found about 1,000 on-line ortho journals, the closest match didn't have any articles with that date.

Please give us a link so I can give credence to this information.

THANKS!!

[Betty Bat]

Sorry that my post wasn't clear. I don't regard changing wires as a problem either. I'm on my third set of wires and it's been about 6 months. I don't have a good feel for whether this is "fast" or "slow", compared to other folks. And, there was a question about treatment speed somewhere in the initial post.

But, the opening/closing part has become a problem for me. I'm currently using Colgate Total toothpaste. What kind do you use?

And, when you said "It's the skill of the ortho, NOT THE BRACKET", were you referring to my opening/closing problem? If so, do you have any advice? I really don't want to switch orthos at this point.

[JoeMama]

I've never had one of the gates open either. That stinks that you're having such a bad time with them. I'd be frustrated too. It's hard to know if you have a bad set, or the ortho isn't shutting them right, or what? Very strange...

[jennielee81]

Sorry that my post wasn't clear. I don't regard changing wires as a problem either. I'm on my third set of wires and it's been about 6 months. I don't have a good feel for whether this is "fast" or "slow", compared to other folks. And, there was a question about treatment speed somewhere in the initial post.

But, the opening/closing part has become a problem for me. I'm currently using Colgate Total toothpaste. What kind do you use?

And, when you said "It's the skill of the ortho, NOT THE BRACKET", were you referring to my opening/closing problem? If so, do you have any advice? I really don't want to switch orthos at this point.

SO glad that's clearer now. I don't want a newbie thinking that wire changes were a problem!! I've had 5 upper and 4 lower wire changes in 11 months.

I use Rembrandt Canker Sore or Sensitive toothpastes. Every time I suggest someone use one of these, I get this: . Hey, it's worth it if it helps, right? My ortho's assistant is always quite pleased at how easily my doors open and close.

No, I was referring to the original poster about the skill thing. Not your doors. I'm very sorry if that was vague. Thank you for being patient with me

I just think (please note that this post is directed at NO ONE in particular) that my ortho and Damon 3's are a perfect fit. Neither the Damons nor my ortho are for everyone. Like Maryaten said, the problems seem to be infrequent.

To each his own, what works for many may not work for some. I don't know if what I want to say is what a I am saying......

Just be aware that I am not judging, ridiculing, or cutting anyone down for their orthodontic choices. I just want posters to know that Damon's aren't bad. (again, not directed at any previous posters).