Ever felt crooked teeth held you back in life (pre-braces)?

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#31 Post by **iBorg** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:04 pm

I'm not sure if crooked teeth ever held me back in any way except I was self conscious of it. Now that my teeth are more apparent I think others perceive me as more friendly. I also strongly believe that our own self-perceptions effect how we interact with others.

Mike

#32 Post by **lionfish** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:00 pm

Jackie, you miss the point. Perfect teeth are not a determinant of social class; rather it is one's social class that enables one to take advantage of a myriad of opportunities to advance one's life, be they educational, occupational, enhancing one's looks, etc. The more resources we have at our disposal, the more easily we are able to take advantage of these opportunities. The Welsh article (or rather the paragraph cited) makes this point.

Sure, most of us admire a good looking person. That's human nature. And no-one should deny the right of anyone to want to improve their looks, for whatever reason. But at the end of the day, if a person's appearance assumes a higher value in society than their ability to be a good friend or do their job well, then I fear for this planet of ours.

jackie100 wrote: For people who disagree with me that teeth are a good indicator of class, here are some definitive studies :

From the British Journal of Orthodontics

"The relationship between social class and uptake of orthodontic treatment was investigated in a longitudinal cohort study of 1018 children living in South Glamorgan, Wales. Previous studies have shown that working class people make less use of dental services and receive inferior dental care than middle class people. The present investigation examined the role of one factor which appears likely to contribute to this effect: namely, the uptake of orthodontic treatment by families from different social classes. If a significant association were shown then findings relating to the effectiveness of orthodontic treatment might be confounded by this social class factor. "

http://jorthod.maneyjournals.org/cgi/co ... t/16/2/107

And here another article from Case Western University

"The researchers also found that higher the familyâ€™s social economic status, the more likely the students would seek orthodontic careâ€”and in some instances seek treatment even without a dentistâ€™s recommendation."

http://www.case.edu/news/2004/7-04/orthocuyahoga.htm

Sure, there will be SOME very wealthy people with messed up teeth and who are overweight, but as for the majority, especially in today's age where orthodontics are extremely common, most people with money will be more likely to have had their teeth fixed.

And in addition, there have been MANY scientific studies done which prove that good looking people get judged more favorably in social situations, job interviews etc. It has been scientifically proven that attractive people tend to earn more.

From The Regional Economist:

"A person with below-average looks tended to earn 9 percent less per hour, and an above-average person tended to earn 5 percent more per hour than an average-looking person."

and

"They found evidence of a beauty premium for attorneys that increases with age, at least for the 1971-78 classes.2 Five years after graduating, a male lawyer from these classes with a beauty rating of one rank above average had approximately 10 percent higher earnings than his counterpart with a rating of one rank below average. Fifteen years after graduation, the beauty premium increased to 12 percent. The beauty premium was smaller for the 1980s classes and might be attributed to tighter labor market conditions at the time of graduation."

http://www.stlouisfed.org/publications/ ... ances.html

Teeth are an important part of overall beauty. Of course ability counts as well, but I think most people would want all the help and advantages they can get in life.

#33 Post by **jackie100** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:06 pm

Lionfish, you are absolutely correct in stating that it is a person's social status that enables one to take advantage of a myriad of opportunities to advance one's life, be they educational, occupational, enhancing one's looks.

And therefore, you can USUALLY judge from looking at someone's teeth (among other things) what class they are from. People from higher classes are more likely to have better teeth. It's that simple. Not in all cases, but in the majority of cases. That's all I'm saying.

I'm not saying that it is right or wrong to judge, but the fact is that people DO judge whether consciously or not.

#34 Post by **joney** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:28 am

It must be a bigger issue in the U.S.A.

The children here seem more concerned with having good teeth (American influence?) but among my generation most people really aren't bothered.

Also in the U.K. there is free orthodontic treatment for children so it is not a class thing as everyone (or at least those who qualify) can have treatment. My children qualified and neither of them had particularly 'bad' teeth, and indeed, although their teeth look better now, if they hadn't had treatment they would still have had nice smiles.

I find it sad when I read that people felt / feel self conscious or that their smiles 'hold them back'. I certainly never felt this.

Jackie, I hope you feel better about things when your teeth are straightened out.

#35 Post by **ghostmyimag3** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:40 am

Honestly I have never felt that my teeth had ever held me back from anything and it could quite possibly be that i wouldn't let anything get the best of me. It never kept me from dating anyone i wanted to date nor did it keep anyone from wanting to date me. I do feel however that it kept certain females in my school years from wanting to be friends with me. My parents took me to an ortho when i was little for years but he wanted to break the roof of my mouth and my parents were against it. But the price of braces increased and they couldn't afford it after that so we have that in common. As an adult the main reason i decided to do this is because my gums were falling into bad shape and i couldn't clean my teeth the way they needed due to crowding and i kept developing cavities. I believe the only ones who keep us from getting what we want are ourselves. Bottom line, my parents were not poor, but they were not millionaires they did what they had to do to keep things running smoothly in the household. I've never blamed my parents for not getting my teeth right before adulthood set in. I've been to college and i've got a fantastic job, the job i wanted to get, with the place i wanted to work, my teeth never held me back from that. Most people say to me they never noticed how crooked my teeth really were until i showed them my progress voluntarily. It has been said early on in here for different reasons but you have to work with what you have. As far as some of the posts in here stating you should put your kids through orthodontic treatment. If the parents can't afford it how is that suppose to happen? Mine were $5000.00. Basically a car payment each month. I would have braces put on my child (if i had one) and it was needed only because i can afford to do so. My parents gave me something better than braces, they taught me self confidence and to be a go getter.

#36 Post by **Steadfast** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:12 am

This is a really interesting thread. I always thought that the link between dental issues and socio-ecenomic classes was well documented. Here are a few examples:

http://www.dundee.ac.uk/dhsru/publicati ... cotdep.htm
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0025-7 ... nlargePage
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entre ... stractPlus
http://www.nature.com/bdj/journal/v202/ ... 7.171.html

Now, just because its documented like that doesn't mean thats how joe public view each other. We don't go around looking at each others teeth and judging each other on them (except, I must admit, I once worked with a girl who had the most disgusting blackened food-encrusted stumps for teeth in her stinky hole and all I could think was 'dear god, woman, can you not afford toothpaste?' Crookedness is one thing, cleanliness quite another) I wouldn't go aound judging someone on a bit of crookedness here or there, or by how many fillings they had.

Which, now I think of it, is fascinating, because I'm rather ashamed of my fillings and can't wait to do something to cover them up. But, thats not me being ashamed of my class - thats me being ashamed of my childhood recklessness of eating too many sweets and not brushing enough.

I think my social class had some part to play in not getting braces - we had no money growing up and the council was always bumping us from one house to another so we never stayed in one place long enough. However, I think it had more to do with cultural expectations - people with my background just didn't get braces - they were for 'posh' people. I know it sounds ludicrous now, but this was 15 or so years ago. Thankfully attitudes have changed somewhat since then!

Anyway, to answer the original OP's thread - no, I don't feel like I have been held back by my teeth, nor do I feel like I have been prejudiced against because of them.

#37 Post by **angiemeu90** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:54 am

i do think that crooked teeth has held me back in certain parts of my life. im only 17 but i have experinced the agony of not having straight teeth.
its to the point where people think that ia either 12 or 14 years old. i dont want to look younger than i really am because people wont take me seriously. another thing i hate is when kids i have known for yearsoutside of school asks me why do you have to get braces. hellooo! have they seen my teeth all these years? where have they been? i dont let my teeth situation bring me down because my friends know that i am working on fixing my teeth but in my case its not so east. most kids would have braces at 14. i was sedated 3 times. 2 for wisdom teeth extraction 1 for SARPE. this happened after i turned 17. sometimes i wish that i had better teeth but hey life goes on

#38 Post by **jalapeno** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:23 pm

Having read the first part of this thread I think the two posters lionfish and jackie100 are arguing two extreme positions wheareas the truth is somewhere in between.

My opinion is the reality is that most of what holds you back is self-imposed, but there is also some definite truth in what the orignal poster wrote.

We are generally our own worst critics.

#39 Post by **Dimples** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:38 pm

Ditto jalapeno!

There is truth to both sides.

True, self esteem/confidence, mindset can play a major factor in achievement,etc.....but on the other hand, sometimes it doesn't matter how much self-esteem or confidence you have, because there just might be an ignorant person who will discriminate against you or judge you because of crowded/mis-aligned,etc. teeth, which you have absolutely no control over...and decide to bypass you or not hire you for that promotion or new job,etc....in the U.S. at least.

But if a person is going to judge me on mis aligned teeth(something I have absolutely no control over) instead of my character, heart, and personality, I definetly wouldn't want to associate with this individual on any terms what so ever...let alone work for, with, or befriend them.

#40 Post by **jennicakes** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:54 pm

i COMPLETELY agree with jackie on this one! I am so happy that someone else feels the way i do about the limitations of bad teeth! I know for a fact that bad teeth have held me back in work, making friends, meeting guys, and the list goes on. It upsets me to see so many of you, who have crooked teeth yourselves, being so unsupportive on this subject. Yeah i believe you do make your own luck to an extent. you can work hard and good things will come of it, but bad teeth will definatelty hold you back from getting jobs, and respect from others. I am willing to bet that the ones on here who say teeth dont hold them back probably only suffer from minor, and not so visible crooked teeth. Also, if you can honestly say that your teeth have not held you back in life in any way, than why are you getting them fixed in the first place! if you were completely comfortable with your life, and the person that you've become, then why would you need to change anything!? if you are so sure that others dont judge you based on looks, then why do you care how you look?! Yeah, it would be nice if we lived in a world where looks didnt play a role in how we were treated but we do. That's just life! Every one of us judges people ourselves, whether we are aware of it or not. Can you honestly sit there and say to me that at a job interview, the boss is going to hire ME, with a gap in between my teeth, over an equally qualified candidate? i bet you can't.
i wish some people were more supportive of this topic. Don't try to tell me i am shallow. I am a kind hearted person, with alot to offer, but because of my teeth, have not been given many oppurtunities to show people who i am. I have not smiled with my mouth open in over 15 years! keep in mind i am only 22! I am not saying straight teeth will bring instant furtune and fame, but they do help to achieve simple pleasures in life. I cannot laugh in public, I cannot meet a guy and not be humiliated talking to him, especially when i realize how turned off he is by my teeth, and I have a very difficult time making friends. People perceive me as miserable and boring because i cannot smile alot. So tell me that my teeth are not holding me back.
If you feel that getting your teeth fixed isnt a completely life changing experience, then honestly, you probably only have very minor problems that nobody can notice anyway.

#41 Post by **SandraJones** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:23 pm

You know, advertisers, TV and film producers, and magazine publishers batter us with images of "perfection" and link imperfections to all sorts of unsavory personality and behavioral characteristics, and we get so brainwashed by it that we start to assume that a person who is overweight or has crooked teeth or whatever is also less educated, doesn't care about the way they look, lazy, unmotivated, mean, etc.

The advertisers and magazine publishers (on behalf of their advertisers) do this linking to make you feel SO bad about your imperfections that you'll buy their service or product to make yourself "better". The TV and film people do it because so many people have been brainwashed by the advertisers they don't even want to see normal looking people on shows and in films any more.

The most unfortunate thing is that these images of perfection, and the hopes of being more perfect, don't just cause people to feel bad about themselves, it causes them to be extremely prejudiced toward others. If you have a noticeable "flaw" your fate ranges from being ignored to being outright harassed. It doesn't matter what other wonderful qualities you have, you are not acceptable ... and everyone is eager to let you know it. And so we have people with imperfect teeth who have learned to not smile, because smiling brings on the prejudice. We have people who are heavy who refuse to exercise in public because doing so brings on the harassment. Think any presidential candidate who is not attractive has any hopes of winning an election ? Our superficial culture is abominable.

#42 Post by **jalapeno** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:13 pm

They have held me back to some extent but about 80% of that was self-imposed, is what I believe. That was my point adn I hope you didn't take my comment as unsupportive because I definitely see some truth to what you wrote.

#43 Post by **lionfish** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:57 am

I know for a fact that bad teeth have held me back in work, making friends, meeting guys, and the list goes on. It upsets me to see so many of you, who have crooked teeth yourselves, being so unsupportive on this subject.

It's not that we're unsupportive, we have a different point of view. Let's face it, we're all here because we're going through (or about to embark upon) treatment for one reason or another.

Yeah i believe you do make your own luck to an extent. you can work hard and good things will come of it, but bad teeth will definatelty hold you back from getting jobs, and respect from others. I am willing to bet that the ones on here who say teeth dont hold them back probably only suffer from minor, and not so visible crooked teeth.

Sorry, you've lost your bet. I was a surgery case so from that statement you can deduce that my bite was pretty bad to start with. So bad that an ortho I saw when I was 18 said there was nothing he could do for me (it took me 35 years to find one who could). As for your assertion that bad teeth (whatever that means) "will definitely hold you back from getting jobs, etc...."., where do you get this idea from? The only person that will hold you back from achieving what you want is yourself.

Also, if you can honestly say that your teeth have not held you back in life in any way, than why are you getting them fixed in the first place! if you were completely comfortable with your life, and the person that you've become, then why would you need to change anything!? if you are so sure that others dont judge you based on looks, then why do you care how you look?! Yeah, it would be nice if we lived in a world where looks didnt play a role in how we were treated but we do. That's just life! Every one of us judges people ourselves, whether we are aware of it or not. Can you honestly sit there and say to me that at a job interview, the boss is going to hire ME, with a gap in between my teeth, over an equally qualified candidate? i bet you can't.

Yes, I can honestly say that my bite has not held me back in any way. The reason I'm getting treatment is primarily for functional reasons. I can live with crooked teeth, but I want my teeth to endure for as long as possible because the alternative (dentures) is far less attractive. Aesthetics is less important to me than achieving a good bite. Would I hire you? If you were capable, had a "can do" attitude and a sunny disposition, absolutely I would hire you. I wouldn't give a second thought to your teeth, nor should I.

i wish some people were more supportive of this topic. Don't try to tell me i am shallow. I am a kind hearted person, with alot to offer, but because of my teeth, have not been given many oppurtunities to show people who i am. I have not smiled with my mouth open in over 15 years! keep in mind i am only 22! I am not saying straight teeth will bring instant furtune and fame, but they do help to achieve simple pleasures in life. I cannot laugh in public, I cannot meet a guy and not be humiliated talking to him, especially when i realize how turned off he is by my teeth, and I have a very difficult time making friends. People perceive me as miserable and boring because i cannot smile alot. So tell me that my teeth are not holding me back.

Try smiling and laughing for a change. You will be amazed at how many people start gravitating towards you. You will stop being miserable and boring, and will start being happy and interesting. And you will attract people to you who will appreciate you for who you are, not what you look like. Those are the very best people to have around you. Try it.

#44 Post by **dubnobass** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:42 am

jennicakes wrote:Also, if you can honestly say that your teeth have not held you back in life in any way, than why are you getting them fixed in the first place!

Well, in my case my front teeth were so badly occluded that they were developing cracks from clashing together. If I didn't do something about it, they would have started breaking apart. I could have lived with crooked teeth, but it seems a shame to have to lose your teeth altogether. I'm getting them fixed free of charge, that's how 'bad' they are. If you were offered the opportunity to stop your teeth breaking up and falling out (free of charge), wouldn't you take it?

Can you honestly sit there and say to me that at a job interview, the boss is going to hire ME, with a gap in between my teeth, over an equally qualified candidate? i bet you can't.

Nope, I definitely can't. But who's to say that the interviewer might make their choice on something equally superficial, such as the colour of your shoes, the length of your hair, your height, your weight? Why single out teeth as the only thing that would set you apart from an identically qualified candidate?

You place such importance on looks that it's clear that nobody can change your mind about the importance of your teeth to you. I hope that you have a magic turaround in your life as a result of your treatment, I really do. However, I can assure you that teeth are not so important to lots of other people. You simply cannot assume that all other people share your attitude to crooked teeth. Before I had orthodontic treatment, I'd never paid any attention to peoples' teeth, but now I notice that virtually everybody I know would benefit from braces, and yet hardly any of them would bother with treatment. Why? Because it's just not that important to them, their friends, or their colleagues.

Admittedly I am in the UK, and attitudes to teeth here are very different to the US, but I'm glad about that. It seems to be making some of you very miserable indeed!

What will you do if , when you have the perfect teeth you so badly crave, you still don't get the guy or the job? What then?

#45 Post by **4113n** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:20 am

Crooked teeth didn't really hold me back in my life. its probably more of my lazy-ness. and always being on the computer that makes me un-confident. i always try to not smile. not because of my teeth but most likely by my poor confidence.