Relationships with Braces

[*melissa*]

Ok, so with regards to your first comment...yes I AM dating, and I think you're misinterpreting my words.

I am not misinterpreting anything, dude. Trying to do something and actually doing something are totally 2 different things!!

I'm not saying just because I have braces i'm automatically getting turned down

Well, I have yet to hear a postive dating experience from you! That's why this whole thing started because you're so effin cynical towards the dating/braces issue!!!! Some examples:

You can say all you want, but people generally don't have the hots for others in braces. Getting hit on is one thing, but closing the deal is another. And for the most part, I dismiss outright the positive "i still get hit on" comments by people in relationships. Let some of the single people tell me they hit the bars with their damon's on and picked up a few people and then i'll hear ya.

And how can you say something like:

I do think that some women will not be as attracted to me because I have braces, but that's not a sweeping generalizating stating that people with braces have no chance in the dating market.

when you say stuff like this?!:

if you are on the singles market and you get braces just get ready for some rocky times. Unless you have some remarkable attributes, are a half way decent looking girl (It is invariably easier for a braced girl to get a guy then the other way around) or some other quality braces are going to either have you set your bar lower, or hang out for a bit.

I have never seen you say "Yeah, braces take away from your overall appearance, but I still have been able to go on dates." Nooo, of course not, that statement is way too positive for you, huh Mr. Cynical? Instead you want to bag on everyone who has had postive outlooks on this whole issue (and don't say "No, I haven't"...cuz dude, there's pages and pages of it.)

We all know it's temporary and that the result is worth it...but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be affected by them. To just dismiss feeling bad. To "just think positive" all the time. Get real.

To be completely honest, I have had my braces for 2 weeks now, and the only time they really affected me was the first couple days. They felt weird/big in my mouth and yes, I did feel unattractive (but only because they were so new and I was quite unsure how they made me look.) But now, I am used to them and I feel 100% back to my old self. The only time they bother me is when I can't eat the foods I love. Oh, and brushing at work is a pain in the butt. But in regards to feeling sexy and all that, I know I still "got it" And "thinking positive all the time" just comes natural, because what the heck is there to be negative about?!?!

[Bekah]

Mellisa, I love your attitude!

I cannot say what it is like to date in braces because I haven't gotten them on yet and because I am married. Of course when you are already married braces have little affect on your love life.

Having said that, I would like to add that I have always felt that there is nothing sexier than a man in braces! I have always loved them and would probably date a man with braces before a guy without.

[kudos213]

Ha, this is great. Some of these posts sound like an ABC afterschool special.

Well, I have yet to hear a postive dating experience from you! That's why this whole thing started because you're so effin cynical towards the dating/braces issue!!!!

Melissa, i'm not here to provide you with insights into my lovelife. What I am saying is that if the original poster is having some downtimes, and doesn't feel as attractive about herself in braces as she would otherwise I want to tell her that that is okay instead of undermining how she feels by telling her that she should think she's beautiful and that there is something wrong with everyone else. This isn't cynicism. Maybe you and a few others feel differently, which is fine. Just tell the original poster you love how you look in your braces and you plan to keep them on forever...lead by example (but then again you've only had them on 2 weeks).

I think the difference here may be that you're a man and most of the people in the conversation are women. Women tend to be more sensitive and never want to hear the inevitable truth about their apperance (if a woman asks if she looks fat in a dress, rarely will she want to hear that she does in fact look fat). Men on the other hand (most men I know) tend to be more forward and honest with their feelings. My boyfriend's friend has gained about 30 pounds in the past few months and the group of guys tease him about his beer belly nonstop. Its all good and fun, but I don't think women would respond in the same way to a weight or apperance problem.

In regards to being attractive: eventhough we like to think that we aren't primarily attracted to someone because of their looks but more based on their personality - the statement can be some what false. Most of the time, there has to be SOMETHING that attracts you to a person in the first place to even get you to walk up and talk to them. If something about a man doesn't attract me, then I will probably overlook him and never have a chance to get to know his personality.

Right on, bosox.

Just relax about your braces though! Even if you feel that women are turning you down for dates because of your braces, just remember that you will get them off relatively soon and you will have the rest of your life to date!! It will be interesting to see if you get an overwhelmingly different response from women once you have perfect teeth, who knows! Good luck and don't get too down on yourself. It is, after all, only a few tiny squares of metal with a couple wires. In the grand scheme of life, your braces are as meaningless as the haircut you had in high school or how chubby you were in kindergarden : )

I still think this is a better response than most of some of the ones on the first couple of pages of this thread. Again, i've had my braces on for 2 years now and haven't really thought twice about them. But you're bound to have bad times (unless you live under a rock, or your appearance doesn't matter that much since you're already in a relationship). It still doesn't mean that this experience is meaningless though. Try thinking that it's meaningless next time you have a bad haircut-I don't think it's a great comfort to think "well this is just a meaningless temporary thing, and I shouldn't give others power to make me feel bad." If you truly feel that I dare each of you reading to go shave your head. That's right, do it. Put your money where your mouth is.

The point is, whether you want to admit it or not, we care about how we appear to others. This isn't a shallow trait. It doesn't make us superficial. When you take time to choose what you want to wear in the morning it has something to do with how you want to express yourself and come across to others, otherwise you'd wear the same thing every day (or not wear anything at all ).

Oh, and Spanner...your entire post can be found under the wiki definition of "biased opinion."

In a nutshell a woman to him is either attractive or she isn’t and anything added like braces, leg in plaster, glasses etc. make no difference whatsoever.

So if the parts don't contribute to the whole then how does he determine if someone is attractive or not? I'm not interested in getting into a whole minimalist approach to dating, but maybe you (and the rest of you) should look outside your significant others for some valid advice about the issue. Your wife/husband/gf/bf isn't going to exactly tell it to you like it is...perhaps that's why you're still reading here?

Don't be misinformed about me, people. I'm not jaded and i'm not cynical. I'm just honest and straightforward. I don't mind thinking "Hey, I look good today" and conversely think "man, I look like crap." I take the good with the bad. This doesn't mean I don't live my life. But as I constantly keep my shortcomings in mind I am prompted with resolve to improve upon them. I'm not complacent. Maybe that's something to look forward to once i'm married...

[*melissa*]

Don't be misinformed about me, people. I'm not jaded and i'm not cynical. I'm just honest and straightforward. .

Yeah, keep telling yourself that, buddy...

[fluffybottom]

Can we please stop with the personal attacks and name calling? Pretty please? There are ways to debate opposing viewpoints without resorting to insults.

ps: Saying 'so-and-so started it' is not a valid excuse.

[Spanner]

but maybe you (and the rest of you) should look outside your significant others for some valid advice about the issue. Your wife/husband/gf/bf isn't going to exactly tell it to you like it is...perhaps that's why you're still reading here?

I didn't look to him for "advice" I looked to him for his views which is totally different. I don't need any advice on this issue thank you. I can make up my own mind about how I feel and I don't care what others think about my views.

He did tell me exactly as it is, why shouldn't he? Perhaps if you are ever lucky enough to be in a relationship like mine you'll realise that an un-biased opinion from a loved one is possible.

And I'm still reading this because I've found it jolly amusing at a time when I've been a bit bored due to reduced workload. But, this is my last post on this subject coz I've found something better to do...My man would like to hear my "views" on men in calipers and I'm off to give him my individed attention

[BoSox2008]

This post is getting to be a bit much, I agree! I think my blood pressure shoots up each time I see the title of the discussion, its funny how upset people can get.

Everyone who doesn't care about having braces and doesn't mind if other people have braces - good for you!!

Those of you who feel less attractive and aren't attracted to people in braces - sorry to hear that, but thanks for being honest! Hope that once you get your braces off and have perfectly nice teeth your confidence will return.

Let's agree that not everyone has to feel the same exact way on every topic. And thanks for giving me something interesting to read at work today : )

[kudos213]

Don't be misinformed about me, people. I'm not jaded and i'm not cynical. I'm just honest and straightforward. .

Yeah, keep telling yourself that, buddy...

Okay...I will.

I didn't look to him for "advice" I looked to him for his views which is totally different.

Spanner, how are these two different? Advice is defined as opinion offered as guide to action. This is just semantics and sounds like you're arbitrarily trying to pick a fight.


Fluffybottom, I haven't resorted to ad hominem attacks (personal insults which are not related to the discussion at hand). I can't speak for everyone else.

[*melissa*]

Kudos, me calling you cynical is no different from you calling me Dr. Phil (LOL) and saying some of our posts sound like afterschool specials....just wanted to point that out k thanks!

[kudos213]

Kudos, me calling you cynical is no different from you calling me Dr. Phil (LOL) and saying some of our posts sound like afterschool specials....just wanted to point that out k thanks!

Let's be honest melissa, you're just plain mean by calling me cynical. By calling you Dr. Phil I was giving you a compliment (everyone loves that bald head of his) and the only reason I came home from studying Latin and Socrates everyday at school was so that I could see those afterschool specials. The don't call them special for nothing.

[Clairey Fairey]

I haven't read through this whole post coz I've not got the time so I have no idea who thinks what, or who's arguing about what, but I just thought I'd let u know that my boyfriend and I got ENGAGED whilst I was (and I still am) in braces.

It's not all about looking like a model. If you love someone then you will find them attractive no matter what.

[ScottR]

I'm afraid the whole topic has gotten out of hand. If I thought a woman was attractive, braces definitely would NOT change my impression of her. I think as we mature we get wisdom that we did not have we we were younger. We have to remember "looks" can temporary. Your partner needs to be your best friend.

[LanShark]

As for my situation, my fiance encouraged me to get the braces. She actually admires me for taking care of myself. I do feel somewhat self-conscious with the braces, because I know not everyone would be supportive. Of course, when the process is done I'll have nice teeth for a change, and won't feel ashamed of the smile, so even a temporary loss of image is worth it.

- Bill

[Nervous]

I'd just like to add that I have nothing to add! Both sides have good points... but I think it's best to remain positive.

[Mellephone]

If someone were to say to me 'Oh, you are better off without a shallow guy like that', I would not find that comforting. I would feel like I was being fed a line, being told what the other person thinks I want to hear. Why? Because I would still in that moment, still feeling those feelings. While the head would know the statement to be true, the emotions inside are not ready to move on from the hurt experienced in the situation. So I would probably agree, put on a smile so I wouldn't be troubling the person with my feelings, feel kind of stupid/pathetic for bringing it up and probably conclude that they aren't really someone I can count on for honest help. Additionally, statements like the better-off one do nothing to prepare the person for when(if) the situation comes up again. If anything, it would leave me feeling more vulnerable (Gosh, this guy too? Am I better off with no one at all?) What would be much more effective for me* would be someone who challenges me to work through my experience and help me come up with solutions for the future. This probably has a lot to do with my upbringing (my parents are very problem-solving oriented; they'd let my brother and I have our cry but then it was time for 'why did this happen and how will you handle it from here?).

This is exactly how I feel actually. My first post here asking for advice about pain, I made a side comment about how braces were impeding my professional and personal life, and two of the comments I received were that I was 1. using my braces as an excuse for the real reasons of my failures and should address those instead 2. I just needed to be more positive. To be honest, it discouraged me from posting here because I felt misunderstood, and I didn't find the advice or opinions helpful. In fact, they hurt my feelings. The truth was I had just been turned down for two jobs in a row, not because I wasn't qualified, but because of my age and my braces, and that was clearly articulated at the time - that I was a young, but extremely qualified applicant and they thought I'd have a difficult time getting buy-in from their current, older staff because of my age and appearance, which included my teenager reminiscent braces. I asked my boss' opinion and he told me that if he didn't already know me he'd be discouraged too, that my braces made me look young and immature and it was hard for others to take me seriously professionally with them. His advice was to have them taken off until I was older or my career was more established!

On top of that I had just been painfully rejected by a co-worker I really liked who mocked me for my braces behind my back, and my attempts at online dating had resulted in some people saying some very mean things about my braces. I had some interactions that were very nice until people saw my braces and then yes, I got rejected - while some made it clear braces were a factor, others just left it polite but still uncomfortably clear.

Clearly the support I received did not feel like support to me. I felt that I was not allowed to feel how I was, that I was in denial and my feelings and thoughts were not valid. No one entertained for a second that maybe braces really were a factor; instead I became the problem. That is not support to me, and made me feel worse at a time when I was already feeling rejected. Believe me, that is hard on the self esteem to hear that your rejection is due to you and rides solely on your shoulders. So I didn't post here and I continued to be my usual positive self and talk to real friends who realized that I had a valid actual frustration and helped me find other realistic ways of dealing with it because putting my head in the sands of happy denial and wishful thinking was not going to make the issues go away. Now I'm not saying a positive attitude can't help. I'm just saying it is not going to solve everything, and sometimes the way it is presented is hurtful and dismissive.

And I also agree that several people appear to be being defensive, aggressive or overtly hostile in this thread and that disappoints me as well. No one wants to worry their post will be picked to shreds and every last word choice or statement analyzed and compared for inconsistencies or that everything will be assumed to be the worst case intention or worst case person. I'm perfectly human and with it comes the occasional inarticulate flub on a message board. I assume others suffer a similar affliction and I'd rather clarify before assuming, or let it go and try and give them the benefit of the doubt. Often times it goes a long way towards helping to breach a communication gap and at least attempt to understand someone different from yourself, even if you don't end up agreeing. I'm sure there are some illegitimate people out there or even authentic jerks who really are shallow and cruel, but I have a choice on how I respond to that and if I let it bother me.