Metal Mouth Message Board

I have not visited this site in over a year because I have been so disgusted with my braces. This forum has been very supportive from the very beginning of my braces experience so please stay away from Western Dental.

I am a Marine Corps wife and we were stationed in Oceanside California. My husband was deployed to Iraq and I thought I would get braces while he was gone and by the time he returned, my time in braces would soon be over. I got my braces on May 6th 2004 (on my 27th birthday). I went to Western Dental Oceanside office and I informed them from the very beginning I would be moving out of the area to another state after 1.5 years. They said "no problem, as long as you go to a Western Dental in that state, no problem."

My orthodontist said one year to 1.5 years max. My main problem was an overbite and top number 2 teeth (both left and right) were hiding behind my two front teeth. After 6 months of bliss, my orthodontist left to start his own private practice, an interim orthodontist came in, but soon left. I ended up not seeing an orthodonist for almost 2 months. Appointments were horrible, I would show up and no orthodonist present and they didn't call me to cancel the appointment. They finally got a new orthodonist and he estimated another year, but my husband and I were ready to move to Tucson, July 2005.

I finished paying my entire orthodontic bill before leaving for Tucson, July 2005. I signed my waiver in July so that my records would be sent from the Oceanside office to Tucson office. I ended up doing this 3 times including driving from Tucson to Oceanside to sign the waiver for the 3rd time in October 2005. The Oceanside office never mailed a copy to the Tucson office, they did however send a fax copy that was barely legible in late October. The only reason why the Oceanside office faxed a copy of my records was because I kept calling the Tucson office to try to schedule an appointment, but they couldn't schedule an appointment because they didn't have my records.

I kept calling the Tucson office that someone in that office got tired of my calling and she told me to come in, called the Oceanside office and said they needed my records ASAP since I had not seen an orthodontist since July! I knew I should have had them taken off my braces, but I was hopeful. The Oceanside office has been nothing but rude to especially the manager, Adrienna. They told me they lost my records, then they found them, then they couldn't photocopy them without the manager being present, then they couldn't find my records again. It was another excuse after another. So now, 2.5 years later I still have my braces on, I'm on my 3rd orthodontist at my Tucson office, and now they are saying I owe them over $5000!

According to the Oceanside office, I owe $3100 from their office, the I have to be re-contracted to the Tucson office which will add another $2800. I have all the copies of my check payments to the Oceanside office and my final receipt saying that I have a $0.00 (zero) balance. I'm getting bi-weekly letters from their collections department. I'm hoping that this doesn't ruin my credit.

In my whole ordeal, never has anyone said "I'm sorry" or "Thank you" to me during any of my appointments or phone calls to them. I am so stressed with this whole ordeal. I turned in photocopies of my payment records to Western Dental Tucson office and awaiting to hear from them even though they keep telling me they will call me, which they never have. When I first started at the Tucson office, I informed them that I had a zero balance and showed them the receipt. They said they would contact them and I never heard about it again, until recently.

The Tucson office was audited by the corporate office and my chart was flagged and now I apparently owe a lot. I believe that the Oceanside office is the problem. Their corportate office is no help when I call the Collections Department they are rude, they obviously aren't communicating with each other because each person I talk to whether it be corporate or local office, I get a different answer.

I wish I had legal consul to consult with because this is causing me so much distress. I don't understand why I have to be re-contracted. I paid my bill and I informed them from the very beginning that I was going to move out of state. I am to the point where I just want them off and I will go to another orthodontist and get them put back on. Nothing is worth this trouble. Please do not patron Western Dental. Complaining to the Better Business Bureau does not help because they have no legal authority over any business to do right by their customers. I wish I never got braces even though I love my teeth.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!


Marine Corps Wife

Hey Marine Corps Wife, Sorry to hear about the ordeal however I stopped going to Western Dental when I was still going to highschool and under my parents dental plan. I was told I needed one root-canal western dental did it however it was the wrong tooth for the root-canal they did it again yet wrong for the second time and finally the third time they did it right. Now I'm 21 years old on my own and DON'T go to Western Dental anymore because the 3 molars they worked on were so badly in diseray that I ended up having to had them all extracted and now I'm with my ortho treatment. So I hope things shape up for you I hope you leave Western Dental and I hope things will get solved soon and hope people will be more respectful and NOT rude.

SDFD TSchott
Code 4

Do you have a copy of the original contract?

Yes I do. It does not mention about having to re-contract if treatment goes further than expected. Also, my Tucson office said one of the reasons I'm being re-contracted aside from my treatment going longer than anticipated it was because the Oceanside office did not transfer my payment to the Tucson office.

Wow... That is really horrible.

I think you have helped confirm my own decision, though. My first consult was to be with Midwestern Dental (possibly affiliated??? the world may never know...). After waiting an hour and a half, I finally was seen by a dentist, not an orthodontist. The dentist and the ortho were nice, but the plethora of office staff was rude and mean. I left in tears. I vowed to not go back, but I had almost been contemplating it anyway because that is the only place covered by my insurance for orthodontics. They cover 20%, so I thought I'd try there first. I didn't really realize how much 20% was until I got a real consult and an estimate of $5000. Then it hit me that 20% is $1000. Not a small amount. But your experience with large chain dental shops with "western" in their name reconfirms what I already knew - no amount of money saved is worth risking my lifelong physical and mental health.

Thank you for sharing. Maybe you will save somebody a heap of trouble. It's good that you have all of the contracts and receipts. Always good things to save. Hopefully that will be enough to get them off of your back eventually.

If it does end up on your credit report, maybe you can dispute it through the credit reporting companies? Or you could look into getting an attorney. Perhaps a low-cost or pro bono lawyer? In Phoenix I was able to find a service that got you a consult with a lawyer for $35. Just to go over legal options and see if there was a case and what would need to be done. It wasn't an agreement for them to represent me, just to get some advice. Something to consider.

Hey there, I use to be in the marine corps. Firtst off sempi fi! I have a couple of suggestions. Maybe you can contact the JAG office at your husbands current duty station. THey might be able to help you for free, you might consider writing yuour congressman, I did it in the past and it helped a lot in my situation, contact a regular lawyer and file a big lawsuit against them for fraud and distress. A lawyer might take up your claim pro bono.

Just some suggestions, don't let them get away with this.

Is there a "Consumer Action Line" column in your local paper, or the paper in Oceanside? If so, copy the text of your post and send it to them in a letter. Copy the letter to Western Dental. Nobody wants this type of negative publicity in a newspaper.

Here is one in San Jose, but I'm not sure if they have a policy to only help local people:

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercuryn ... tion_line/

If there isn't a consumer action column in your local paper, is there one on an Oceanside or Tucson TV station? If so, pursue that avenue. Ditto on a local radio station.

You could also file a complaint against Western Dental with the insurance commission in both California and Arizona.

http://www.insurance.ca.gov/contact-us/ ... /index.cfm

http://www.id.state.az.us/forms/Request ... e_1-06.pdf


You might want to see if the American Dental Association can do anything to help you.

http://www.ada.org/ada/contact/email.asp?link=3


What about a consumer protection agency in either state? Have you filed a complaint with one of those?

http://www.dca.ca.gov/complainthelp/cit ... laint.html

http://www.azag.gov/consumer/complaintformintro.html


Also....

Board of Dental Examiners
California Department of Consumer Affairs
1432 Howe Avenue, Suite 85-B
Sacramento, CA 95825
800/952-5210 information
800/344-9940 TDD
916/263-2300
916/263-2335 complaints
www.dca.ca.gov/r_r/dentalbd.htm
Consumer complaint form
Takes complaints about quality of care, fraudulent billing or misconduct by dentists, dental hygienists and dental assistants. Does not handle disputes over costs or fees.


Western Dental is an HMO. I'm not sure if they are covered under this umbrella, but you could give it a try:

http://www.hmohelp.ca.gov/dmhc_consumer ... efault.asp


There is a website called complaints.com and they already have a few stories about Western Dental. Maybe you might want to add yours, too:


http://www.complaints.com/directory/2005/april/9/12.htm

http://www.complaints.com/november2003/ ... ber6.9.htm

You could also find out who is in charge of the entire Western Dental company and write them a letter. I'm not sure if that would get anybody's attention -- but if you told them that you got the local TV station and newspapers involved, it might light a fire under them.

How do I know these things? Long long ago, in a universe far far away (i.e., when I was single and in my 20s) I was the consumer action columnist for a large daily newspaper on the East Coast. I helped a lot of people untangle their red tape and get money back, etc. I was jokingly called ActionLynn. It was a very fun and rewarding job.


OK, aside from that....

I visited Western Dental's website. They have a Patient Bill of Rights. Did you know about it? Seems like your rights have been violated according to their policies. Here it is:

Anyone seeking dental care can enter our offices with the assurance that they possess certain patient rights to care and conduct which must be maintained in the course of treatment. So that there is no question of what you can expect from us, we are pleased to share this patient bill of rights and responsibilities with you.

PATIENT RIGHTS:

The patient has a right to an appointment with their primary dentist for emergency care within 24 hours.


The patient has a right to an initial appointment within three weeks.


The patient has a right to obtain from his/her dentist complete, current information about his/her diagnosis.


The patient has a right to receive from his/her dentist information necessary to give informed consent prior to the start of any procedure and/or treatment.


The patient has a right to refuse treatment to the extent permitted by law, provided he/she accepts the responsibility and consequences of the decision.


The patient has a right to considerate and respectful care. The patient has a right to every consideration of his/her privacy concerning his/her own dental care program. The patient has a right to expect that all communications and records pertaining to his/her care should be treated as confidential.


The patient has a right to expect reasonable continuity of care.


The patient has a right to examine and receive an explanation of his/her bill regardless of the source of payment.


The patient has a right to voice his/her complaints and appeals to the office without discrimination and expect problems to be fairly examined and appropriately addressed by the office.


The patient has a right to file a complaint with the company and receive a written response within 30 days as to the disposition of the complaint. The patient may write to the company at P.O. Box 14227, Orange, California 92863 or call (800) 333-8866.
PATIENT RESPONSIBILITIES:

The patient has a responsibility to keep appointments and when unable to do so, to notify the dental office as soon as possible.


The patient has a responsibility to provide dentists with all information needed in order to care for the patient, including accurate and current health history, and to communicate whether he/she clearly comprehends a contemplated course of treatment.


The patient has a responsibility to do his/her part to improve his/her own health condition by following treatment plans, instructions and care that the patient has agreed on with the dentist.


The patient has a responsibility to behave in a manner that supports the care provided to other patients and the general functioning of the facility.


The patient has a responsibility to provide accurate insurance information and to accept the financial obligations (copayments, coinsurance and deductibles) associated with services rendered.

Hi,

I also had problems with these orthodontist office chains. You cannot trust them, or thier contract. I came to an Orthodontic Centers of America (OCA) office, called north georgia orthodontics, in suburban atlanta. In my contract, they said that I can transfer to another office in thier network if I moved. When I said I was going move, they wanted to take off my braces, and make me pay everything, even though my bite was not perfect. When I found another office in the system and when I said that I would transfer there and finish the payments there, they said that they no longer are affiliated with OCA and that I still have to pay the georgia office, and stuff like that, although I am sure that they are still affiliated (they use all the OCA stationary). THey are legally bound to that contract, and If they were no longer affiliated, then they should have sent a memo to all thier patients. If we ever do anything like miss a payment, they nail us, and when they don't abide by thier contract, we are helpless! However, my story has a happy ending because even though I ended up finishing the payments with the georgia office, I got a new ortho that is much nicer, much more patient, honest, not interested in cheating the patient money, and does all the adjustments herself. I feel much more confident in her hands. I think these small private practices are 10x better than these large commercial chains with tons of clients (and I want to emphasize the fact that i used the word clients and not patients). I am so sorry things didn't work out for you. Wish you the best. I am sure you have a legal case against them, and if you take action, you will help all the abused dental patients everywhere.


A NOTE TO ALL OTHERS::: TRY TO GO TO A PRIVATE, SMALL PRACTICE INSTEAD OF A BIG ONE, BECAUSE YOU WILL LIKE THE TREATMENT BETTER! But be careful of small practices too. make sure you like the orthodontist, and look at the before and after pics and see if you like them. just because the office is fancy, has a coffee stand, arcade, and massage seats, doesn't mean you will get the best care (believe me, I went to an offfice like this, and they said I would have to pay $1600 to finish my treatment, even though I had been braced for 2 years and was near the end of my treatment!)

Some of these posts attacking the 'chains' are kind of making me upset. I go to one of these chains, and i have recieved nothing but kindness and great service. The day after my braces, on a friday night mind you, the office called JUST to make sure everything was ok. I'm sorry some of you had such bad experiences, but let's not diss entire 'chains' please, it makes it sound like you think im getting second best treatment, when im not. Sorry to rant, some of these posts just made me feel bad.

Having sued a former dentist myself in the past, I personally would not waste your time contacting the ADA or the Board of Dental Examiners. I learned the hard way that they PROTECT THEIR OWN and could give a rat's booty about the consumer. There is typically a statute of limitations on dental work and the faster you resolve this, the better. You could cc: your correspondence to them after you file a complaint with the California Attorney General's Office.

I hope you can find a private ortho with good recommendation to complete your treatment.

Heh. You're preaching to the choir about Western Dental...I'm being treated at one up here.

They day I got braced, they didn't even have the right equipment and I had the ortho having a screaming match with the office clerk complaining that it was ridiculous that they expected her to practice orthodontia with the overbooking and lack of materials that she was being presented with.

The first time I was late with a payment (I think my payment was due on the 5th, my appt. was on the 7th and I got paid n the 6th. I waited until my appt date to pay) they treated me like I was trying to rip them off and for the next 6 or so appointments, they called me out of the waiting room before they examined me to ask if I was actually going to pay them this time.....even when I had already made the payment for that month or the payment wasn't even due yet!!

They scheduled me for Labor Day (I didn't realize it when they made the date....hey, -I- wasn't the one with a calendar in front of my face!!) and they never called me up and explained their screw up. I called myself a couple of days after Labor Day (I called on the day, to just double check if they were open, because it seemed weird...glad I did as it's a $7 roundtrip BART fare to get there) and told them how they had messed up and there was never an apology. They didn't seem the least bit concerned and kind of acted mean and rude with me when I wasn't available for their first open time slot. I work, so sue me!

Every single time I go there, I wait more than 30 minutes after my scheduled time before I get called because they keep their business overbooked because their prices are so cheap. I get it....I'm there myself because of the cost factor....but man, it's practically as bad as waiting in the ER!

All of that negative stuff being said, my ortho is very good at what she does. She is generally friendly, and though she isn't that talkative and doesn't keep me informed unless I ask questions, I can understand that. It's a very pressured environment. Sometimes the ortho area is so packed that she has assistants changing ligs in a regular straight back chair! She tries really hard to do her best with what she has, and I put NO fault on her whatsoever.

I stopped going to Western Dental when I was still going to highschool and under my parents dental plan. I was told I needed one root-canal western dental did it however it was the wrong tooth for the root-canal they did it again yet wrong for the second time and finally the third time they did it right.

How do you screw up that bad? Really. I mean a root canal is for teeth with massive deep decay. How could one even drill to the nerve without realizing your on the wrong tooth? My word.

- Missing Tooth -

Sorry about your bad experience. I would also contact the Attorney Generals office in CA. There should be a legal aid system in CA, you pay on a sliding scale so I'd consult with them as well. You could also file a formal complaint with the licensing board in CA.

missing_tooth wrote:

I stopped going to Western Dental when I was still going to highschool and under my parents dental plan. I was told I needed one root-canal western dental did it however it was the wrong tooth for the root-canal they did it again yet wrong for the second time and finally the third time they did it right.

How do you screw up that bad? Really. I mean a root canal is for teeth with massive deep decay. How could one even drill to the nerve without realizing your on the wrong tooth? My word.

- Missing Tooth -

Who knows but the anesthetic they used sure did numb me up a ton so I didn't feel a thing but when I went in for a checkup they noticed it was done on the wrong tooth, then they did it again went in for a checkup on that one and they still did it wrong so the third time the dentist did it himself and got it right after two unsucessful trys. I only paid for the one rootcanal so no problem there.

SDFD TSchott
CODE 4

I'm sure that 2 unnecessary root canals were bad enough....but at least they didn't EXTRACT wrong teeth on you!

True story: when my husband was a kid, his friend's neighbor needed a leg amputated due to a disease or something. The doctors took off the wrong leg. I swear to God. True story. Of course they then had to go back and take off the other leg. Of course, he sued....

Maybe a call to the investigative reporters at Fox6 San Diego or Fox11 Tucson might help to shed light on this type of customer abuse and get it fixed... you're probably not alone.

Otherwise, now that you're in AZ, you can contact the office of Senator John McCain for help (http://mccain.senate.gov/). He's known to be helpful to military families.

All the best to you!!