Crazy 5 year old story.. opinions please!

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#1 Post by **metalmom** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:38 pm

Okay so I think I've noticed a going trend around the board that ortho is a little different here in America.. and sometimes a little excessive. I wanted to get some opinions on what I heard last night.... I personally said OMG that's crazy! haha

Here it is:
So I have a friend w/a 5 year old little boy. He went to the dentist for his cleaning and x-rays. The dentist came out and said there is NO WAY that his adult teeth will come in because they're so large.. they need to go to the ortho for a consult. So off they go to the ortho that the dentist recommended.. He evaluates and agrees... So here's the game plan. Get ready for it... When the 6 year molars are in they're going to begin removing the baby teeth. Front ones first and then move on.. At this time they will go ahead and place the appliance for expansion. He's already cutting his molars so the poor thing won't even be 6 before he's got his baby teeth pulled.

I was in shock, I have a 6 yo and a 7 yo.. Neither one has lost more then 4 teeth. I can't believe they're pulling baby teeth!

#2 Post by **discomom** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:11 pm

I can relate! My 7 year old has to have two of her baby teeth pulled this next Thursday! I am sooooo upset. The ortho told us that her permanent teeth do not have the room to erupt so they need to come out. Not happy at all!!!

But, I want her teeth to be good soooo.....

#3 Post by **Lisa65** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:33 pm

I guess he must be an exceptional case - although in the UK, I never even heard of a 5 year old getting X-rays and a cleaning, let alone orthodontics.

#4 Post by **Steadfast** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:39 pm

I had to have four of my baby teeth removed to make way for my adult teeth . I don't remember much of the specifics, but I remember it being quite distressing at the time. No needles, you see.

#5 Post by **metalmom** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:42 pm

Disco--don't be upset two teeth is nothing!! I actually had that done w/my 11 year old when he was umm... probably 8. I think that's pretty common.

Lisa-- really? ya'll don't take kids in that soon? I feel like a moron when I took my oldest in the first time at 4.. they told me that I should have been bringing them as soon as their teeth erupted. ? I think that's a little excessive. Needless to say the youngest has been going basically her whole life. I think she was 3 when she got her first cleaning. I don't know how bad his case is. I'm not a dentist but it baffles me how they can tell at this age much of anything.

I'm very new to this whole ortho bit though so it could be that this is very normal. lol

#6 Post by **Nikkiekoala** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:57 pm

Lisa65 wrote:I guess he must be an exceptional case - although in the UK, I never even heard of a 5 year old getting X-rays and a cleaning, let alone orthodontics.

Here in the US most kids go to the dentist for their first cleaning around
3 yrs. old. For a couple of reasons. One, to get them use to the dentist (a pediatric dentist makes it a lot of fun for kids) and the second is to spot potiental problems with teeth erupting and dealing with things before there is a problem. Pulling some teeth early does help with controlling how the adult teeth come in.

#7 Post by **Lisa65** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:11 am

Nikkie and Metalmom, I don't have kids, but from what I can gather, parents here are encouraged to start taking their kids to the dentist from the age of about 2 or 3, so they get used to being in the chair and having somebody look in their mouth. The parents should also start brushing the child's teeth from when they first come through.

What I meant was that I never heard of 5 year olds getting things like X-rays and cleaning. I might be wrong though. As I said I don't have kids so I never needed to take one to the dentist.

A work colleague of mine has a 5 year old boy and I know he had to have some fillings and a couple of baby teeth out, but she didn't mention X-rays and stuff. I'll have to ask her.

#8 Post by **grinning** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:07 am

I wish I had a better memory as then I could just cut and paste from the site(s) I read this on...

When I first had braces I did a lot of reading on different orthodontists web site about braces, how they worked, their methodology, etc, and I noticed that while the 'older' method was to work with children/teens once adult teeth had erupted, there was also a 'newer' trend where orthodontists worker with younger children (~age 5+) in order to make the adult teeth erupt in reasonable positions. The theory behind it was that if the adult teeth erupted properly to begin with then the issues of retention weren't there and the child would hopefully never require braces at any point in their lives.

I've never read much more to see how well this theory works, (hopefully I summed it up properly) but how could one really tell? I suppose if you could find stats on how many of those children require othodontics when they're older as well??

#9 Post by **metalmom** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:46 am

Grinning--that's exactly what I worry about the long term effect. I had heard of doing some expansion and stuff like that at a young age to try and make more room and also to help the jaws develop correctly. It will be interesting to see how all this plays out.

I guess for me the biggest thing is this.. My kids are all pretty young, 10, 7 and 6.. My 10 year old had an appliance when he had to have a back tooth pulled because it was abscessed. That was still a miserable experience for him. They talked about putting a guard in my daughters mouth because she is a nighttime finger sucker. haha So far they're not wanting to worry with it. He said once the permanent teeth are in it will be a bigger deal. I just wonder how they REALLY know how the teeth are going to come in. My oldest had lost his top 2 and bottom 2 front teeth by 6.. middle one lost them at almost 7.. my 6 yo hasn't lost any teeth yet. So that leads me to believe every child is different. I know that from 5-7 the middle boy has grown 4.5 inches and gained almost 10lbs. he looks like a totally different kid.. I know his jaws have grown too. haha It's scary "to me" to think about pulling a poor kids teeth because you're afraid they'll be crooked... I know everyone has an opinion and that's mine.

I love getting feedback on here because it helps me to see both sides. I think in my case if my dentist/ortho wanted to do something like this on my youngest I'd have to say no way. I'm a little inclined to think this has some to do w/$$ too... Instead of a 2 year ortho treatment this kid will be in and out of the ortho until all of his permanent teeth are in... You know they won't do those checkups for free.

#10 Post by **bracedintx** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:04 am

grinning wrote: I suppose if you could find stats on how many of those children require othodontics when they're older as well??

I was older than 5--maybe 11 or 12--and had I think 4 baby molars removed to 'create space' for adult teeth. I had orthodontics when I was 13-14. Now in my 30s I am back in braces due to crowding, jaw problems. So...maybe it makes a difference when the child has teeth removed at a very young age. I would have to say that it did not fix things for me personally, but perhaps my jaw would have grown differently if the work had started earlier *shrugs*

#11 Post by **Miss Smiley** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:05 pm

OH MAN! I was just talking to my brother about this the other day. He could already tell that my 18 month old nephew will need some major phase I and phase II treatment because of his facial structure. My 5yr old niece on the other hand may only need phase II or can wait until older and just do phase II. My sis in law is a dentist but does not do the cleanings on my niece, they take her to a pediatric dentist and started when she was 3. She has had a cleanings, x-rays, and sealants (she chews on ice, almonds, and anything else that has a hard crunch.) My nephew will probably start going when he turns 3 years old too because my sis in law still brushes the childens' teeth. I remember going to the dentist when I was younger too. It was usually a check up and cleaning, I didn't have any phase I treatment for my overjet as a child. I think in the States, we push more on early, early prevention and treatment for a comfort thing.

#12 Post by **rsprouse** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:22 pm

You should theoretically take your kids to the dentist around their first birthday. By then they should have their primary central, lateral, molar and canine and waiting on their 2nd molar. If you start them early you will gain their trust and they can realize that the dentist office doesn't can be fun. Well, at least that it doesn't have to suck

The more they go for preventative care, the sooner problems can be diagnosed and hopefully avoided. They can get used to the dentist experience and gain comfort so they are easier to work on.

Regarding the OP and their situation. Early intervention orthodontics is a great option in a case like this. Assuming it was diagnosed properly. By dealing with what sounds like a severe space issue, you can non-invasively help expand the jaw and create room for the adult teeth. It is MUCH simpler when the child is this young in development. They will likely prescribe an expander appliance (maybe removable) for a year or two. Then a few years off and braces later in their childhood. As far as extractions of primary teeth, it is often necessary to create room for the permanent teeth. Let me know if you have any specific questions.

Best,
Rory

#13 Post by **SandraJones** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:24 pm

Re thumbsucking ....

It might not always be damaging before the permanent teeth come in, but the longer a thumbsucker sucks, the more difficult it is to break the habit. Best to stop it ASAP. There's no reason why any child should be sucking his/her thumb.