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I posted this in the "say hi" section... here goes..
I am scheduled for the following:
2 extractions - 10/23 (2 upper and 2 lower premolars)
spacers - 10/24
braces - 10/27
The objective is to pull my top and bottom teeth back.
My mouth protrudes in my profile..everything else is fine.. my orthodonist said my smile is beautiful, but if I want it fixed, he will fix it. EVERYONE (family, friends) say I don't need braces. I have lived this long with the smile I have (33yrs.).
I like me smile too, but I know it could be better. I am afraid because of all the stories I have read about people that don't lik their "after" smile or profile.. how it may age me..etc.. ARGH!!!
I have scoured the net for photos of adjustments similar to what I want and I can't find any. I know doctors post the dramatic ones to show just how much they can do..
But, has anyone had, what they consider, a mild problem fixed?
After seeing & hearing about the "flattened facial profile" stories myself, I would question your ortho (especially after looking at your pictures) why you need extractions at all. Your teeth aren't all that crowded, which is usually the reason any teeth would need to be removed. If you can get a second opinion (even a third) I would recommend it.
Have you talked to your ortho about self-ligating braces? Damon brackets are the most well-known of these, and I have them. I love how comfortable they are how fast they are working! They are a more expensive than traditional braces but if you don't want teeth pulled (and who does, really?) then I would go for this option if you can. Check out this link for an presentation of what these braces are and how they work:
Yayyyyy!!!! Thanks for that explanation. I did a search on Bimaxillary Protrusion and I saw better examples of what is going to take place and photos of people who had teeth that looked like mine.
Are you a male or female? Having all your teeth provides the underlying bone structure for having full, youthful lips (for both men & women alike). If you look at pictures of Angelina Jolie or Scarlet Johansson (both of whom are known for their attractive mouths) you will notice that they have teeth that are forwardly positioned in their mouths. AJ even has teeth that slant or fan outwards slightly.
I am a female with bimaxillary protrusion & had braces once before and more recently, contemplated having 4 premolar teeth removed. After extensive research, talking with several dentists, and paying hundreds of dollars for second opinions from other orthodontists, and many months thinking about this, I decided NOT to have teeth removed. I will get braces for my bottom teeth that have shifted a bit.
Here's why: If you remove 4 teeth, you will create 6-7mm of space in your mouth (the size of a premolar tooth). In a person, such as yourself, with virtually no crowding, in order to fill this space, your front teeth will move backwards an estimated 60-80% or roughly 3.6-5.6mm. This may seem like a small amount to you, however, it can have a dramatic impact on your facial asthetics. Even with temporary anchorage devices (mini screws) and other appliances, there is a lot more resistance for the molar teeth to move forward, so most of the movement to fill the space will come from your front teeth moving backwards. If you only think your teeth need to move back 2mm, that may not be mechanically possible for the orthodontist to do. If EVERYONE (friends, family, orthodontist) is saying that you don't need braces, then I would definitely take that into account. Is your face in harmony as it is?
****I would only consider removing 4 premolar teeth if you have difficulty closing your mouth over your teeth. This is known as lip incompetence, lip strain, or mentalis strain. The mentalis muscle is your chin muscle. In people with strain, it will look like an orange peel, with a dimpled appearance when you shut your mouth. Another sign of strain is if you feel like you have a grimace on your face and people misread your emotions. Or if when you smile, there is a heavy shadow under your bottom lip. But I would only remove teeth if these signs are apparent to everyone around you & are not the result of you nitpicking small flaws, which we all have.
****I would like to add that if you don't have any lip strain, then your profile will move backwards more than if you had strain. If you had strain, then the backwards movement of the teeth would be relieving the strain, but if there is no strain to be relieved, the lip which drapes across the teeth, will move backwards with the teeth. There is no precise rule as to how much the profile will move. Different studies cite different results. Different people have different architecture of their soft tissues, so this is not something that can be predicted well at all, only estimated. Which is something to consider.
I really hope this helps you make a decision. I think the bottom line here is that you can't change one thing without affecting other things. I was told, point blank, by an orthodontist with a PhD in the growth and development of the jaws, that removing my teeth would result in flattening my profile and would make me: look older, and get lines around my mouth sooner. He also noted that you can substitute the term amputation for extractions. This is a professional orthodontist, who routinely has patients who need teeth removed and doesn't hesitate to recommend that course of treatment when it is appropriate.
I am not trying to be alarmist here, as I too, have a PhD in molecular biology and always look at things in a very scientific way and try to quantify things.
Best of luck making your decision. I hope you don't feel as lost or confused. For what it's worth, I think your teeth look nice as they are.
Last edited by BracesAgain on Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I sent you a private message which included information about profiles. Does your profile look similar to the before picture of the girl in the link you provided? That would be a convex profile- if you draw a line from the tip of the nose to the tip of the chin, you will note that the lips are pushed over that line. Bear in mind that mind that convexity is better tolerated in females. However, if you are very convex, you may benefit from treatment. If you notice, her after profile is dramatically different and much more straight. Do you belong to any specific ethnic minority- such as hispanic, asian, or african american. Convex profiles are quite common in those ethnicities. Can you post any pictures of your profile?
Please note that the underlying skeletal structure of someone with bimaxillary protrusion is usually mild class II (not to be confused with class I occlusion). Meaning, your lower jaw will be a bit small, termed "retrognathic" or "microgenia." If you believe that your profile is out of harmony, another option for you might be getting a small chin implant. That will come with a host of other possible complications and should not be taken lightly. I will use Angelina Jolie, as yet another example, of someone with protrusive teeth and a full smile who clearly got a chin implant early on in her career.
I like the before picture of the girl better. I wish they had take a before shot with her smiling to truly compare. Do you notice that in the first after shot, she's got a nasolabial line that she didn't have before. And uin the before first picture, she looks more sensual.
1smoothroller
I'm telling you, you will ruin your smile and your looks. If you go ahead, I hope you're married, because if you're not, you might have trouble getting a date!
neilar wrote:1smoothroller
I'm telling you, you will ruin your smile and your looks. If you go ahead, I hope you're married, because if you're not, you might have trouble getting a date!
neilar...I have to say I'm quite disappointed in that type of response. There are many of us on here (myself included) that are extremely self-conscious as it is. Stating things like that do nothing to support somebody. In fact, all they do is increase self-doubt, which is something nobody needs to be dealing with when they face braces, and/or extractions, and/or surgery. Most of all it surely doesn't help when making such a critical decision.
Unfortunately, no doubt, what you state has elements of truth. Nobody here is that naive...There are people that will reject somebody simply because they don't have a great smile. Hell, it's happened to me and I'm sure many others here. Those of us so challenged have to resort to other things to attract people, such as personality or the type of person somebody is. Imagine that!!!
But please, let's not concentrate on those superficial types of people. There are many more that don't act so superficially and those are the one's we should draw attention to. And we should also concentrate on helping people and informing them through sharing experience and information. Your response doesn't fall into those categories.
Sorry, I am not one to start a battle on a message board, but I felt the need to openly dismiss that type of commentary.
I'm sorry you're one of the people who had their smile damaged by orthodontics. For what it's worth, so am I. If you you feel it damaged your looks, why wouldn't warn people about this? That's all I was doing. The woman in the photo is a beautiful looking lady, and it saddens me that human beings change the body so agressively. I think people don't understand the full impact of braces. And I believe many orthodontists know about this, but they continue with the procedures because that's how they make their living. I feel strongly that this woman will impair her looks with braces. The bones serve as a framework for the face, and putting inward pressure on teetch causes the bone loss and hence a smaller framework. The face collapses a little which is less attractive and aging.
Sometimes I feel I need to get my point across with the harsh realities of life. Of course the personality matters, but it is still a great loss to have one's good looks taken from them. (That's spoken from personal experience.)
You have such a beautiful smile, and a beautiful profile. I know little about orthodontics tbh - but would also just urge you to proceed with caution simply on the basis of that gorgeous face. From my perspective it would be a shame to change it! Probably not the encouraging response you may want right now I know!
In the similar case example you linked - I personally think the womans profile was perfectly lovely and her face more youthful before the work - but what matters is how she feels about it of course. I hope she's happy - certainly has a lovely smile after the work too
neilar, I can appreciate what you are saying to some degree, and I don't know you at all so I can't say whether you are just trying to help (and you are just going about it a bit differently than I would), or if you really do have a hidden agenda. I just firmly disagree with your tone and comments such as what you made, and much of what you are saying is based in speculation.
I did not say anything about having a smile damaged by orthodontics and/or extractions, but I have to admit that I've thought that my entire life. After all, I did have braces and extractions, and I need to blame something!
The bottom line is I had a quack orthodontist, I had braces way too early, and the #1 factor in my case are skeletal problems that were never once evaluated or considered. Therefore, I cannot put full blame on braces or extractions, as there were more severe underlying issues that I am now finally learning about and am finally going to deal with. Is it going to be fun? Hell no! But will it be worth it? I hope so, and I've finally come to grips with the fact that I'll do just about anything to one day smile and actually enjoy it...
So, my only hope here is that you don't post with a hidden agenda, and that you take into considerations your tone and how what you say may hurt people. I sincerely doubt you're a bad person, but all I am saying is "look before you leap"
I don't know about any hidden agenda I have. I'm open with my belief. When you move teeth back, it generally has a detrimental effect on looks. Sorry for my flip remark, but I get so fed up with the establishment defending orthodonture. I don't think I was rude to the woman who was asking for advice. (Perhaps I was insensitive to people who feel bad about having braces, so I apologize to those people.) I vehemently advised her not to do it. (I believe she was asking for advice, wasn't she?) I don't know her, but it truly sadden to see someone with a gorgeous smile have braces on. I think braces are changing the way the world looks for the worse. God, or whoever you believe in, gave some people beautiful smiles and looks as a gift, and it seems wrong to me that orthodontists take that away. It's personal for me, but in my case, it's kind of a lost cause. But there has to be someone who speaks about. Perhaps one day when I retire I'll focus more on it. Not to worry - I'm not presently writing any book or article on it.
Meryatan, we've corresponded before, and I'm becoming more convinced that you are an orthodontist. Speaking of agendas, what is your agenda for being on here? You seem to always defend orthodonture. Are you undergoing treatment? Have you had treatment and you're just happy with the results so you want to post?
You have a beautiful smile. I don't know much about treatments for bimax protrusion, but I'm sure a consultaion or two can help you make the decision.
Speaking of agendas, what is your agenda for being on here? You seem to always defend orthodonture
.
neilar,
You do realize that you are posting on an site for people undergoing orthodontic treatment, don't you? We have questions that we would like to have answered, and we look for support from one another.
For what it's worth, Meryaten has had braces and surgery too. She has kindly done countless hours of research and shares it with us as needed. I for one really appreciate her knowledge and I hope she is able to continue contributing to this forum in the future.
Braced October 17, 2007
BSSO and Lefort August 13, 2008
De-braced November 24, 2008
