Metal Mouth Message Board

I feel I've received poor service from an orthodontist I saw, but would like the opinion of others because I'm not sure if my expectations of what is bad / good service are a bit unrealistic or I'm being overly fussy re wanting to know exactly what the final result would look like. I went to this orthodontist for a consultation. I live in France and my French is fairly okay but not fluent so i chose an English-speaking orthodontist.

The consultation with the orthodontist herself lasted about 7 minutes. During this time she said she would make my smile 'wider' but didn't go into detail. She explained the treatment would take 18 months and she would use metal damons. After this i was whisked away for xrays. No impressions were taken. I had bought with me some plaster models of my teeth that my dentist had made 18 months earlier to make a night guard as I was grinding my teeth. The ortho' took these from me and said she would use them to produce the damons even though the front bottom teeth had been half chipped off during production of the mouth guard...she said that wouldn't matter enough though damons were for upper and lower.

I was sent an estimate regarding costs. I wasn't really happy to go ahead at this stage as I felt that the final position of the teeth had not been explained to me fully no computer imaging had been offered....I wanted to know how the deep bite would be achieved without making the teeth 'lean'... i didn't feel seven minutes with the ortho was enough to result in me being fully informed and happy to spend 1000's. I wanted to make sure her aim for my teeth wasn't different to my own. I contacted the ortho's secretary by email and asked if computer imaging, was told it wasn't but that i should make a second rdv and the ortho would explain.

A few weeks went by when i was busy with work. During this time i heard about damon clear. I emailed ortho to ask about these. I also went for a second opinion with another ortho would said he could fix my teeth much quicker using a different technique and using damon clear - he spent half an hour with me and i was very impressed. As the first ortho was nearer to me i asked if she could also offer this type of treatment - she said no as this was not the way she worked, which is totally fair enough. She said she could offer damon clears in June and sent me an estimate. She sounded quite snotty that i had consulted with another ortho but i know it's quite common to seek two opinions.

I preferred the second ortho but he was just too far away for the adjustments etc so i decided to go with the first one. I asked for the second appointment to discuss final position of my teeth - just a scribbled
drawing on a scrap of paper would have been enough for me to have had confidence to go ahead but the ortho said that she had told me all she would tell me in the frist 7 minute appointment and i should either go ahead or not go ahead if i didn't trust her work (she seemed to have taken it personally that i had consulted someone else which i thought was a bit unprofessional). Her secreatary rang me saying i must make a decision as 5 emails was too many and i was asking too many questions (consider that two of these had been connected to receiving a new quote for damon clear) This conflicted with what i had been told before when she had told me to come in in person as no computer imaging was available.

I asked to have the models back and when they arrived i took them to the second ortho to see if i could save time on him taking new impressions - he said there was no way these models should be used to make damons as they were chipped.

The first ortho has sent me a bill for the first consultation (i already paid for the xrays) and i am unhappy about paying for it. i don't think a client considering paying thousands should be 'told off' for wanting to know position that teeth with be in after treatment. I'm considering refusing to pay this bill but wondered if I'm being overly fussy wanting to the ortho to explain where the teeth will be after treatment.

Hi

I understnad totally where your coming from, embarking on a brace sentence is a big thing and nobody wants to go through the pain and expense to find at the end of it they are not happy. I find myself in a similar kind of position to be honest, i feel every question i ask is too many.

Were the fees discussed with you before hand?, I have my records appointment coming up and i know that i will pay £50 for that apt regardless of what i choose to do.

I would definately not pay the bill if you feel they havent done their job properly or maybe try and discuss it with them, explain to them how you feel and that currently you arent able to make an informed discision as putting your trust in someone isnt the problem its understanding the outcome your idea of perfect teeth and hers may be different.

You havent said how much they want to charge you? If its a lot i would definately refuse to pay.

its 56 euros. I just feel that the ortho took it personally when i sought a second opinion because she had initially said i could come in and she would explain in greater detail due to no computer imaging...and when i mentioned booking in for this second appointment (after she found out I'd got a second opinion) she started saying that i should make my decision without this second appointment and either i had confidence in her work or i didn't.

I'm sure if she was going to spend 5000K on having her house altered she's expect more than a 7 minute look by the builder and a brief 'I'll make it wider' as an indication of what would be done before signing on the dotted line.

To be honest, the fact she was going to order damons from models that were 18 months old, that she had not taken and that had chipped fronts (front lower teeth chipped in half) means i don't think she is actually very professional.

I agree and the fact that she didnt like you seeking a second opinion isn't very professional either. If she'd have treated you better she would have got you as her patient but because she didn't bother you'll likely go elsewhere.

Most people although may not like someone wanting a second opinion accept that thats life and fair enough for the patient to do it, if they put the effort in then they reep the rewards. Its not about trust i dont think its about understanding.

If they didn't tell you before hand that you would be billed for the consult, i don't think you should have to pay at all.
And to have problems with you asking questions? Thats just silly. When it comes to something like braces, the more questions the better. My ortho sat with me twice, for 30 minutes each time...going over X-Rays and molds...then he spent time with my dentist to find the best solution for my case. I'd gladly have paid extra for that. For what you got? No way. 7 minutes is too small an amount of time for her to think you'd be dedicated to her plan. If thats what she even wants to think of herself.

I'm not sure if you have such a thing as Citizens Advice in France, but in the UK there are all sorts of groups (Trading Standards, Citizens Advice, or the General Dental Association) who could give you advice about whether you have to pay or not. Is there something similar in France you can go to for help? You could even ask the other orthodontist!

Sorry to hear you've had a bad time - but please don't let it put you off, most orthodontists are wonderful, experienced and professional people.

Good luck

Suzy

I don’t know how much this has to do with it, but I wonder if the language barrier has complicated things? It’s easier for misunderstandings to arise when trying to communicate in a foreign language. I assume the ortho is not a native English speaker? She may have sounded more abrupt than she intended.

Either way, it sounds like it wouldn’t have worked out with this ortho so it’s as well you’ve found out now! As for her bill: I’m really not sure about that. Were you told the initial consultation was free? If not, I spose I’m inclined to think she’s entitled to charge for her time. It won’t only have been the 7 minutes she spent with you, but the time she spent considering the treatment plan and drawing up the estimate, etc. FWIW the bill for my initial consultation was 300+ euro, altho’ that did include x-rays, impressions & photos. And I was told about it in advance... [and as it turned out didn’t have to pay it anyway, but that’s not important right now]

I dunno, I think if it were me I’d pay the bill, put it down to experience, and be thankful I didn’t have to continue treatment with someone I could never see eye-to-eye with.

But then I never have liked confrontation!

P.S. Just seen suzyscientist's post. What a good idea

Your questions should be answered of course.
Fees should be explained before services are performed.
It is very rare to have a computer simultion of your results (except with invisalign) and they do not use the models to fabricate damon braces. There are in a drawer and placed on the teeth. Models are used for diagnosing and treatment planning out the case. Having said that there are some docs who do not take models at all except on surgical cases.

I think you should have been informed about the fee for the consult, or something on their website, etc. However xrays usually cost money so at the consult you either signed an agreement continuing with the treatment or if you didn't then that is completely unprofessional not even being asked if you wanted to pursue treatment and charged extra because you went to someone else. It could be possible she is doing this unprofessionally because you're foreign. I know it's a stereotype but I heard from several people that if you don't know how to speak French they will not even try to speak English with you.

Also there are limitations in what orthodontics can accomplish, you should have been told that there is no guarantee you could get optimal results, there should be some kind of agreement or consent form outlining the possible negative effects braces can have on your teeth like receding gums, root reabsorption?, black triangles (black spaces between teeth), etc. Also you should have been given room to think about the decision because it is a big step to be making and a lot of money!

That being said, having a computer image of your teeth of the results does sound unrealistic, it is not something all orthos use. You obviously know about these tools but the ortho should know how to use these tools optimally like molds and when you were asking questions, that should have been explained instead of you having to repeatedly ask about them. Also you shouldn't be rushed into getting braces put on, that is a red flag, in my opinion.

I would honestly choose someone else. I was in such a rush to get braces put on and one place wanted to put them on right away. Another place took time to access my x-rays, molds, etc and whether I needed extractions afterwards (took 2 weeks for the ortho to write the referral) Also at the end of my consult they outlined my treatment plan, what the risk and limitations were, and told me to contact them when I decide to continue and schedule the xrays and molds. That was when the pay the down payment was expected. Anyways hope you get it figured out!

If you orthodontist uses OrthoCAD or something similiar they can show you on screen what the final smile may look like. Nothing is a guarentee.

I had two consults and neither could tell me what the end result would be. I think alot of orthos are wary of doing this because its impossible to know how teeth will react so they dont want to promise a result that may not be attainable.
The point of having a few consults is so see how you get along with the ortho so I dont think you disliking her gives you the right not to pay her.

To be honest, sounds pretty par for the course in my experience working with most people in the medical field in France.

As drrick said, the damons come in a box and they just pull them out of a drawer. In the end, it's a judgement call on your part as to whether or not you have treatment with the original doctor. If she's someone who has had good results, then I'd probably go ahead and shrug off the attitude as coming with the territory, so to speak. If it does bother you that much, suck it up and drive to the farther away but nicer guy. Be sure he has good results too though - I'd rather deal with a pain in the butt doc and have great teeth then have my teeth messed up by a nice one.

It was always pretty tough for me in France to separate the competency of the doctors from the attitude, because you don't really see that much where I come from and I wasn't used to dealing with that. I do agree though that just because you dislike her doesn't mean you don't pay her.

Damon's don't "always" just come in a box and get put on your teeth individually.

My treatment plan was set up using the Insignia computer software system. I had impressions taken of my teeth and my damon brackets were placed according to the software on "jigs" that fit onto my teeth placing the bracket exactly where the program wanted them to be. Some of the "jigs" had brackets for more than one tooth. I was also shown the computer simulation of how my teeth would move.

This of course, costs more, and not every orthodontist uses this type of treatment planning.

I have In-Ovation C and mine were placed with OrthoCAD through indirect bonding.