Metal Mouth Message Board

For those of you who have had success with non-surgical palatal expansion, how long was it until you noticed movement? Specifically, how many turns (if you remember)? I have to turn my expander once every three days which I realize is not very much compared to most others who have to turn theirs once or twice daily. I assume maybe it is because I don't need a whole lot of expansion. My ortho said he wants to take it slow.

I am very nervous that I am going to get a noticable gap between my front teeth - but I figure if I do, at least that means it's working. If you developed a gap, do you know how many turns before you noticed it? Yesterday was turn 6 out of 20 for me and today I noticed the floss sliding through my front teeth very easily, with no resistance. Typically flossing there is very tight.

Although I know it is different for everyone, I'm just wondering what to expect...and what timeframe to expect it in!

Thanks!!

sjs8906 wrote:For those of you who have had success with non-surgical palatal expansion, how long was it until you noticed movement? Specifically, how many turns (if you remember)? I have to turn my expander once every three days which I realize is not very much compared to most others who have to turn theirs once or twice daily. I assume maybe it is because I don't need a whole lot of expansion. My ortho said he wants to take it slow.

I am very nervous that I am going to get a noticable gap between my front teeth - but I figure if I do, at least that means it's working. If you developed a gap, do you know how many turns before you noticed it? Yesterday was turn 6 out of 20 for me and today I noticed the floss sliding through my front teeth very easily, with no resistance. Typically flossing there is very tight.

Although I know it is different for everyone, I'm just wondering what to expect...and what timeframe to expect it in!

Thanks!!

I got my RPE about 2 months ago. I have seen a little movement but not significant. But my ortho had told me to stop turning it ( I turned it about 30 times). I think I will have it on for at least 6 months.

my brother had the helix expander and got a very good expansion(he wore it for 9 months).


good luck.

Thanks, bottlecap. I do hope to see some progress eventually.

I am a non-surgical palate expander person. I also turned every 3 days, I needed a decent amount of expansion, but without surgery it had to go a lot slower to make sure the molars aren't tipping (important!). I turned from march through the first week of july, not sure how many turns tota probably around 30. I got some new gaps, but not between my front teeth as they were already pressed hard together. Good luck!

Hi,

I just wanted to post this here because I feel it is important to do so.

The bottom line with the non-surgical approach is that it isn't going to work unless you only need very limited space. If you need anything significant, the non-surgical approach simply does not work on adults, and may actually cause significant harm. This is because your bones are completely fused and they simply won't "expand" unless they are surgically separated.

Before everybody jumps on me, I'm not saying this to encourage anybody to get surgery. I've had 1 and am about to have another soon...they are NOT fun by any means. It took me years to finally fess up and realize surgery was my only option that would work.

However, I feel it is important for people to know that almost all medical evidence shows that expansion without surgery in an adult just isn't feasible. It is not stable, and it can cause tipping of the teeth which could jeopardize your overall occlusion and put you in worse shape than you started. You can find this simply by Googling around.

Again, I'm not here to say "you must do surgery" - It is a personal choice and it takes a lot of commitment.

But for all you adults out there that need expansion, I'd be very wary of any orthodontist that would say they can expand you without surgery. Head on over to the Orthognathic Surgery Forum to get more details about SARPE if you want an excellent source of information from people that have faced this exact same decision.

Best of Luck to everybody.

-Chicago29

^you beat me to it...non-surgical doesn't work with adults, unless you want to push your teeth out the side of your jaw.

If the teeth are tipped toward the palate then you can get 'uprighting' This isnt true expansion but many people (drs and pts alike) get confused in the terminolgy and call it expansion when in fact it is uprighting.

You cant move teeth outsie the limits of the bone but if there is bone you can move the teeth into that bone (which is what you do when you uproght the teeth)

drrick, thanks for the explanation.

It always puzzles me when it seems like so many people have expanders placed -- is it just that many people can use the space provided by tipping the teeth up/out (is it a common issue?) or do some orthos just do the "try and see" method knowing that true expansion of the palate can't really take place? Are expanders ever used for other reasons, like maintaining or shaping space in non-surgical patients?

One thing to keep in mind is the word "expander" is often used as a catch-all name for a variety of appliances. SO when people say 'expander' it may not really be an expander.

'Expander' is the 'kleenex' 'band-aid' of the ortho world.

but, yes thay can be used for different things.

Thank you drrick, and everyone for your responses.

My teeth are in fact tipped toward my palate. My molars don't fit together properly because of this.

In all honesty, I don't actually think my orthodontist has ever even used the word "expansion." He put in what I assumed to be an "expander" so that's just the terminology I've been using.

DrBlur wrote:^you beat me to it...non-surgical doesn't work with adults, unless you want to push your teeth out the side of your jaw.

Are you guys sure about this?

I've read at many places (I'll be posting links soon), about expansion of the jaws in adults.

There's a guy on yahoo questions who answers dental questions and is a dentist who says he's achieved as much as 20 mm expansion non surgicaly.

You do have to wear a retainer for life, though.

Also, the mandible keeps changing through your life naturally, so the fact that the bones are fused doesn't matter. Actually, I'm not 100% that this isn't just thinning of bone but I'm pretty sure it isn't. (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 121836.htm)

I wonder though if what is being achieved is maybe expansion of just the dental arches rather than the whole jaw, if this is at all possible.

The mid palatal suture is the line you feel running down the middle of your palate. This denotes the location of an opening between two bones and becomes fused during puberty. The goal of expansion is to move these two bones apart. After fusion, the upper jaws are not able to be separated from each other without surgery. As such, only dental tipping is possible.

Dental tipping in a buccal direction, as mentioned, is not true jaw expansion, but can be considered dental expansion. Keep in mind that the teeth can only be tipped out so far before the supporting structures, such as the gums and bone, are compromised. Long term stability is also of great concern.

This is as sure as night and day :).

I was talking to my ortho the other day about the promotional video he uses on his website where they discuss why you should get your treatment there, examples of cases they treated, etc, and there was one case that caught my eye in the video, where the girl had worn braces from a previous ortho and then came to this dr because she wasn't happy with the results. She basically had a lot of gum showing, and then after braces her entire upper jaw seemed to "shift upwards." I asked my dr if this patient had surgery for her treatment and he insisted it was just the braces alone. Of course I am not going to call my dr a liar but I don't see how this result is possible without shaving down the upper jaw.

The video can be seen at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXyrCprUlas and just fast forward to 1:56.

whoops i meant to post that in a new topic, sorry for hijacking thread

I had some expansion without a palate expander. My orthodontist did it with a special wire (unsure the name and size) and class III elastics in a cross bite formation (cleat on the back of my molar/Hook elastic to cleat and lower molar tube hook). All it really did my tip my molars on the top out and the lower molars in. As everyone stated there really is any true expansion that can be done to any adult without surgery.