Metal Mouth Message Board

Hi. I had braces along with 2 upper premolar extractions when I was 12. I'm 30 now. I now have an anterior crossbite. No clue when it developed but I've been to oral surgerons and the last one said that I wouldn't need upper jaw surgery cause it's not a jaw issues. I guess I was suppose to get a palate expander as a kid but ortho didn't mention it. Instead they extracted teeth from the top which narrowed it. My lower teeth are a little crowded also. The oral surgeron if I was to get the bottom premolars taken out it would fix my bite. The thing is I don't want to extract anymore teeth. I think it was wrong for them to extract teeth when younger anyway.

I want to expand instead of narrow more. I worry of future sleep apena and breathing issues. I might be mouth at night and one oral surgeron said I had a deviated septum although he didn't seem too concerned. I looks as though my bottom molars are tipping into my tongue and I want something to tip them out. Sometimes my tongue feels like it has very little room to work with in my mouth.

I want to know if any ortho can expand my arches and open my top spaces back up and fix the crowding in lower teeth? Has anyone successfully reversed premolar extractions? Don't know why they just did mine on the top as I was young.

Also I had a dr. Belfor (spelling) call me about the homeoblock appliance and he'd be willing to help me. Only thing that throws me off is the doctor himself called me? Seems a little odd but I'm willing to try anything. Has anyone had experience with him or the homeoblock?

Off-hand, I'd say that if an oral surgeon, who, if anything, is going to be biased towards surgery, says that you simply need a couple extractions instead, I'd be inclined to believe him.

On the Homeoblock: personally, I would not suggest it. It ticks off an awful lot of the boxes on my "Avoiding Exaggeration, Quackery, and Malpractice" sticky near the top of this forum.
- It's one of those "miracle appliances" sold primarily (solely?) to general dentists (and Belfor is a General Dentist himself, not an orthodontist.) I'm not saying that orthodontists are immune to inertia in treatment methods, but you'd think if it was worth it, he could find more orthodontists to sign on.
- While it looks fancy, except for the bite block inexplicably only on one side, in function it does not appear to be any different than an ordinary (unbranded, available from any dental lab, and used by just about every ortho in the country when appropriate) palatal expander.
- It's sold with a healthy dose of silly woo: "The unilateral bite block sends a signal to the genome in the osteocyte via signal transduction through receptors in the periosteal membrane" and "The long arm flap springs send a signal ... [ditto] ... periodontal membrane." That sounds fancy (and far-fetched), but all it means is that the teeth and bone move, and the stress causes bone remodeling. Which is exactly what ALL orthodontic treatment does. (Really, I'd be surprised if there was even a General Dentist alive that didn't see right through all that smoke.)

I would visit one or two actual board-certified orthodontists and see what their opinion is on possibilities for treatment. It may be you have a narrow skull and palatal expansion would not be appropriate (or not appropriate for other reasons.)

Bravo, sirwired!

[quote="sirwired"]Off-hand, I'd say that if an oral surgeon, who, if anything, is going to be biased towards surgery, says that you simply need a couple extractions instead, I'd be inclined to believe him.

On the Homeoblock: personally, I would not suggest it. It ticks off an awful lot of the boxes on my "Avoiding Exaggeration, Quackery, and Malpractice" sticky near the top of this forum.
- It's one of those "miracle appliances" sold primarily (solely?) to general dentists (and Belfor is a General Dentist himself, not an orthodontist.) I'm not saying that orthodontists are immune to inertia in treatment methods, but you'd think if it was worth it, he could find more orthodontists to sign on.
- While it looks fancy, except for the bite block inexplicably only on one side, in function it does not appear to be any different than an ordinary (unbranded, available from any dental lab, and used by just about every ortho in the country when appropriate) palatal expander.
- It's sold with a healthy dose of silly woo: "The unilateral bite block sends a signal to the genome in the osteocyte via signal transduction through receptors in the periosteal membrane" and "The long arm flap springs send a signal ... [ditto] ... periodontal membrane." That sounds fancy (and far-fetched), but all it means is that the teeth and bone move, and the stress causes bone remodeling. Which is exactly what ALL orthodontic treatment does. (Really, I'd be surprised if there was even a General Dentist alive that didn't see right through all that smoke.)

I would visit one or two actual board-certified orthodontists and see what their opinion is on possibilities for treatment. It may be you have a narrow skull and palatal expansion would not be appropriate (or not appropriate for other reasons.)[/quote]

You think there is a way they could fix it without anymore extractions? Have people been known to reverse the premolar extractions? I've never been known to have a narrow face. How about sarpe?

If you don't have a narrow face now, with two upper extractions, I don't see you as having a narrow face with two lower extractions. (The lower jaw is thicker and less prone to narrowing than the upper.)

But I'm just a random guy on the Internet. (Who is not, in any way, a dental professional of any sort.) Since you are in the US, generally Ortho consults are free. I suggest you consult with two (or more) actual board-certified orthodontists. Your goal is the best treatment plan for you; that means don't tell them what you clearly want to hear (correction with no further extractions). Listen to the proposed plan and decide if it makes sense. If they propose extractions you can certainly ask them why SARPE (or other palatal expansion) and implants might not be appropriate. I expect the answer will be the risk of relapse. (Extractions don't relapse ever. (Obviously))

Speaking for myself, after having a palatal expander as a child 30 years ago (and I clearly needed one; I still remember my models) I still needed upper jaw surgery (LeFort I) as an adult to expand the rear of the palate further, and every night, 2 1/2 years after my surgery, my retainers still feel tight. Every single night. I can only imagine how difficult retention would be if I had dramatic palatal expansion.

I thought there was no relapse with sarpe? My crowding on the bottom is mild but I would think pulling those premolars will pull the jaw back.

And those are questions for an actual orthodontist.

Hello,

Depending on your circumstances, you potentially may be able to reverse your previous upper premolar extractions and place implants or bridges in the spaces. An orthodontic expert in reversing premolar extractions (extraction/retraction) is Dr. William Hang at Face Focused Orthodontics. Check out his website for specific details and information on reversing extraction/retraction orthodontics: facefocused.com

Am looking fro a orthodontist who does reverse braces extractions in London....I have read many many posts on orthodontist doing reverse extraction on here but noone puts the details of where they get this done sadly

Check Dr. William Hang with Face Focused Orthodontics. I have seen his name dropped several times about this issue.