Metal Mouth Message Board

still even after four years i can't rationalize that i did the right thing by having jaw surgery. it affects me everyday still - i wake up and feel like i gave a part of my identity away when i didn't have to. looking at old photos and videos and such makes me feel like i didn't have a noticeable issue aesthetically speaking besides my open bite. i was told by two orthodontists that surgery was necessary after wanting to avoid it in the first place and discovering TADs via my own internet research which were new at the time. there wasn't much research about them but i found what i could. i realize what led me into 'wanting' the surgery was the orthodontists confidence that it was the correct thing to do for my case as opposed to ME feeling like it was 100% necessary. they seemed hesitant that i would have had as good of a result or have a 100% functional bite without surgery - though it was literally only a year or two that passed after the surgery where the TADs became more mainstream and could have been a viable non-surgical option for me. theres research and cases of people with 'worse' bites than i had who were fixed without surgery. open bites, underbites, overbites, pretty much everything.

at this point it feels like i elected to have a major surgery that wasn't necessary. like i harmed myself in some way. it's hard to live with knowing that i trusted my doctors opinions instead of my own intuition in thinking 'well maybe i don't need it and this is just the way THEY feel most comfortable treating me", "maybe i should wait to see if this new thing could work, or find an orthodontist who feels confident that i don't need the surgery at all". i really thought they had my best interest in mind, extended myself enough for their opinions, but now feel like they were more concerned with what they felt more comfortable treating me with via what might be better for me emotionally speaking.

my mindset was 'if youre gonna do it, do it right the first time'. i thought the surgery was the right thing. i was told with the TADs they would be concerned with relapse and retention which drove me to think that i wouldn't want to go through that and have an open bite again. now more recent research says TADs impaction are stable tooth movements... so the reasons for why i justified that the surgery was the better option weren't true and leaves me feeling helpless because i can't change anything.

now the only thing that helps me cope with it is looking at the good things the surgery did do:
-my bite is fine
-i can sleep better and breathe better through my nose. my quality of sleep was worse before
-no longer mouth breathe during the day/sleeping
-i don't have tmj issues or jaw/joint popping/locking. it happened a lot - when talking, chewing, etc and was relatively loud
-used to get sick often, have ear infections frequently, which i haven't had since the surgery. my research concluded those could have been from mouth breathing and bacteria
-my blood pressure used to be high all the time. like 150-165 (sometimes higher) over the normal range (sometimes the bottom number was bad though). it has been in the normal range
-my ears used to feel full all the time. like a pressure that lasted for a few years. that went away as well
-i had ringing in my ears all the time as well, which was much louder before and it made it hard to concentrate. it would get louder when turning my head
-being able to bite things with my front teeth

i was concerned about these things and wanted them to go away or improve for health reasons. while i'm glad that they were helped, i always wonder if the same thing would have happened had i fixed my bite non-surgically. or if i could have found a way to manage these things. like having another mouthguard made. i feel stupid for making such a big decision and having an major and relatively medieval surgery, and hurting myself emotionally throughout the process. i wish i browsed these forums at the time or was given some better advice, like to get as many second opinions as possible, besides just two. i wonder if most orthodontists a few years after the fact would still recommend the procedure.

any input/advice/opinions on these concerns will be greatly appreciated. thank you

pics for reference: https://imgur.com/a/IJDPE

I can understand! I too have an anterior open bite. I did my research and found out about dental vs skeletal open bites. I also looked at cases online and saw how many people closed their bite with only braces. On ortho even suggested the viewer to get a second opinion if someone suggest surgery because they can be closed. I was pretty confident going into my consult. I even told the staff I wanted a fix without surgery.

However... I went in and I was told I would need surgery anyways and without it, he could only close it 70%. He was a younger ortho as well! I almost wanted to cry because it's a super expensive procedure and I didn't know if I would be able to miss those days of work. I chose the surgical option but Being as stubborn as I am, and because I was determined to fix my teeth, I decided to go with a second consult. I also decided not to mention surgery this time because I wanted to see what he had to say about it. I decided that if he also mentioned it, I may just need it after all. BUT, he NEVER even mentioned surgery and told me I had the typical open bite. He DID mention skeletal open bites but only to clarify that some people have those. Thos ortho was a little older and has been in the business longer. I found it funny how both orthos looked at the same X-Ray and the same skull and found 2 different things. Needless to say I had my braces put on with him a week later and am so happy!

I feel like with our issue, because it accounts for less cases overall, many orthos don't take the time to look into new and advanced way to fix an open bite so you have people with very small open bites that are told they need surgery.

You said you had TMJ? Not sure if that means surgery is needed in all cases, but that may have been an indicator of the severity of your jaw issues. You also said 2 orthos told you the same thing. I honestly wouldn't blame you for making the decision. I would have too. (Although I was gonna go to third and fourth if I had too...) Also, did your back teeth touch at all?

I know it took quite a bit of courage to post this, and I am sorry you have regrets and depression. As a registered nurse, let me first recommend that you seek psychological counseling on the issue to help you come to terms with your current situation. I'm not entirely certain that TADs would have given you the same good results that you describe, and as you realize timing is everything. If TADs were a new therapy at the time, I don't think I would necessarily jump on board with that approach immediately -- I prefer other people to be the guinea pigs . And also, please don't allow your intuition to guide medical and dental issues over the educated advice of your orthodontist. That's a bit risky. You considered the situation and gave due diligence, and elected to have surgery. It was a reasonable decision. Retrospect can be a bi*ch, pardon my language. You describe very good results. Frankly I probably would have made the same decision as did you, for the same reason, even if it was today, and my ortho recommended surgery as the definitive treatment.
But as I mentioned at the top, seek a professional to discuss these very important thoughts and issues you are having. You deserve to be at peace with your decision.

Everything looks better in the new pics in my eyes. The bite and entire facial profile looks much better not to mention the whole list of benefits.

Sorry if this sounds a bit blunt but what's the concern?

FlowerPower wrote:I can understand! I too have an anterior open bite. I did my research and found out about dental vs skeletal open bites. I also looked at cases online and saw how many people closed their bite with only braces. On ortho even suggested the viewer to get a second opinion if someone suggest surgery because they can be closed. I was pretty confident going into my consult. I even told the staff I wanted a fix without surgery.

However... I went in and I was told I would need surgery anyways and without it, he could only close it 70%. He was a younger ortho as well! I almost wanted to cry because it's a super expensive procedure and I didn't know if I would be able to miss those days of work. I chose the surgical option but Being as stubborn as I am, and because I was determined to fix my teeth, I decided to go with a second consult. I also decided not to mention surgery this time because I wanted to see what he had to say about it. I decided that if he also mentioned it, I may just need it after all. BUT, he NEVER even mentioned surgery and told me I had the typical open bite. He DID mention skeletal open bites but only to clarify that some people have those. Thos ortho was a little older and has been in the business longer. I found it funny how both orthos looked at the same X-Ray and the same skull and found 2 different things. Needless to say I had my braces put on with him a week later and am so happy!

I feel like with our issue, because it accounts for less cases overall, many orthos don't take the time to look into new and advanced way to fix an open bite so you have people with very small open bites that are told they need surgery.

You said you had TMJ? Not sure if that means surgery is needed in all cases, but that may have been an indicator of the severity of your jaw issues. You also said 2 orthos told you the same thing. I honestly wouldn't blame you for making the decision. I would have too. (Although I was gonna go to third and fourth if I had too...) Also, did your back teeth touch at all?

that's great news that your new ortho didn't mention surgery! did your ortho mention if your open bite was skeletal or dental? see in your case if you happened to get surgery for a 'small' 'dental' open bite because of one orthodontists opinion it would be wrong on them in my opinion unless you totally needed it and for other potential health reasons

i agree about orthodontists not wanting to stay ahead of the curve. thats partially why i feel the way i do right now. just a feeling of like 'if i would have just went to a third ortho i could been told something different treatment wise and steered me away from a surgery'. like knowing i don't look/my face doesn't feel the exact same as it used to due to some new medical advancement that could have avoided this and maybe solved my other issues sucks but i could just be being too negative. it could be a lot worse though.

if i was someone with a huge noticeable bite problem, or an obvious dental/facial deformity beforehand, it would be a no brainer that the surgery was worth it. cases like ours are more sensitive really. people can't really tell we have/had open bites. some of us don't notice it about ourselves either. theres a link to photos on the bottom of the op btw. it's like my self image was better before finding out about my bite. it was probably a healthier state of mind to be in honestly. the ortho/surgical phase kind of puts you in a mindset that something is wrong with the way you look, even if its small when time could have fixed that

djspeece wrote:I know it took quite a bit of courage to post this, and I am sorry you have regrets and depression. As a registered nurse, let me first recommend that you seek psychological counseling on the issue to help you come to terms with your current situation. I'm not entirely certain that TADs would have given you the same good results that you describe, and as you realize timing is everything. If TADs were a new therapy at the time, I don't think I would necessarily jump on board with that approach immediately -- I prefer other people to be the guinea pigs . And also, please don't allow your intuition to guide medical and dental issues over the educated advice of your orthodontist. That's a bit risky. You considered the situation and gave due diligence, and elected to have surgery. It was a reasonable decision. Retrospect can be a bi*ch, pardon my language. You describe very good results. Frankly I probably would have made the same decision as did you, for the same reason, even if it was today, and my ortho recommended surgery as the definitive treatment.
But as I mentioned at the top, seek a professional to discuss these very important thoughts and issues you are having. You deserve to be at peace with your decision.

this is really nice to read! right, i decided to not jump on-board on the TADs even though i was amazed by the potential of them initially. i was thinking 'nah these won't become a thing its just some youtube demonstration video of how these screws can fix my bite', and like two small pieces of research at the time but after the fact they became a revolutionary thing where it felt like timing IS everything. within a short time or even just being the 'guinea pig at my ortho i could have avoided the surgery. it's like all a patient wants is and confidence and ethics. it's not to say its unethical to recommend surgery, but considering the ortho's knowledge and skill is what sometimes separates some patients from having their jaws chopped off it's like theyre responsible for many elective surgeries. an ortho could have convinced me you'll look great after the tads, an improvement from now! no surgery needed and we think it'll help most of your other issues etc. thank you for being positive. the outcome was successful so realistically i don't have many reasons to complain. i could have gotten into a car accident and died or be disabled or anything really. little things i like and don't like here and there. i do hope to find peace in this thank you

'also, please don't allow your intuition to guide medical and dental issues over the educated advice of your orthodontist. That's a bit risky.'
i appreciate that. a part of my intuition was saying 'don't do it! you're too sensitive for this! you have anxiety and tend to think deeply about things its a major surgery on your face!' and the other part was worried about my long term health and was saying 'you're strong enough to go through this if you have to". luckily i do seem to be breathing/sleeping better only after upper jaw surgery. my blood pressure is about 30-40 points lower on average than it was pre-op. the breathing part is important to me which im not sure would have been improved without the surgery. it felt difficult to breathe through my nose before

geeky1978 wrote:Everything looks better in the new pics in my eyes. The bite and entire facial profile looks much better not to mention the whole list of benefits.

Sorry if this sounds a bit blunt but what's the concern?

thank you for the positive reinforcement my concern two things really. feelings of being unnatural/less authentic in terms of identity, if other people would judge me like how people judge people who have had plastic surgery (i didn't think of it as an aesthetic surgery and went through it for medical and functional reasons) and being able to 'tell' i had the procedure. it's not like pain, or crazy tingling sensations. but more or less an awareness that i had the procedure. that might be normal for anyone who has had jaw surgery though and might be anxiety related too. i can feel the bottom of a plate in my upper left gum with my finger, and can tell they are there. that might just be the subtle tight thing i feel. it's a feeling of 'this feels different all the time than if i hadn't had the surgery.' seeing case studied on the TADs too, where in cases similar to mine it 'can' improve their profile to sometimes noticable degrees. like impacting the back teeth the lower jaw swings up and stuff. it would still have been a good selling point if they could promise that/known about them

i do feel happy that it helped other issues, though it feels like there would have been a less emotional tradeoff had i not gone through it. it's like how do i convince myself i should be happy? it's so hard but your post helps put things into perspective

I think your photos look fine! There's no point in questioning the past because it's over and you can't undo surgery. Forget the TADs. Life is short, so why waste time worrying about things you can't change? Accept who you are today.

honestly you need to stop caring about feeling not authentic.
You did something that was needed, and between the two, if i would have the financial opportunity, i would definitly had choose surgery as well!!
let me tell you, you look great, stop looking back and enjoy the change.
it is impossible to convince yourself to be happy, and depression after this major procedures is really common.

you need to do yourself a list of the pros, supported by pictures, NICE PICTURES (your masochist self could try to trick you and make you look only at the bad ones), and keep it in sight for bad times.

i experienced something similar when i had my upper blepharoplasty done: this trick keep my mind on track (;

With all due respect to the other posters, let me say that it is easy to say "Don't worry" but it is quite another issue to actually do it. The poster's concern are real, genuine, and deserve to be addressed -- hence I reiterate my advice to seek professional counseling.

If you couldn't breath through your nose, had poor breathing during sleep (sleep apnea which kills you!!!) and high blood pressure, and now all these things are gone after surgery, that's called a success.

I agree with djspeece. You should to talk to a psychologist about your depression and regret about surgery.

I'm not a medical doctor but everything looks much better post op. Especially if u feel all the positive effects, I don't see anything negative. I truly wish u the very best and please let us know how ur feeling. Depression is a hard one, as sometimes it takes over full force without any thought of logic. I too, am a bit depressed from getting braces and it's only for four months duration . Our brains have a crazy way of dictating reality. Good luck to you and I'm sure we will all be better for it in the end

Absolutely agree with everyone saying it all looks better post op! If you've had health improvements along with your aesthetic improvements then that's fantastic. Definitely visual improvements though. I had a broken cheek bone 5 years ago and they told me they could reconstruct the bone to a point but it would look slightly smaller than my left cheek or I could have a complete implant put in to help reshape my face, I chose the implant and I was so sad for so long because I thought I looked so much different and I missed my old face, the one that I grew up with and was used to. I hated my right cheek in every photo to the point where I would only take photos from my left side but in the past year or so I've grown to like it and now my right side of my face is my favourite! probably not a great comparison but I think I understand the feeling of 'what if I had chosen the other option?' I think any changes to our face has a very unsuspecting impact, you don't really expect it but it's almost like going through a grieving process for your 'old' face. I hope your emotional pain eases soon

If you have no discomfort ...i would say...dont regret.... i am having discomfort... and i would thank lord for the day...i will normal.... i no longer care how i look