Metal Mouth Message Board

Hello,

I am 40 years old, and was in braces approximately two years from the age of 12 or 13.

I had no problem with my teeth that was visible to a layperson, no visible crooked teeth, crowding, overbites, or underbites and was told by my mother that I didn't need braces, but that she wanted me to have them, and thought they would make me better looking. My teeth were not perfectly evenly spaced like a denture, but nothing that could be seen without looking closely in my mouth and lifting my lips, like a dentist. I was taken to the orthodontist she liked, with her already basically determined I would have braces. I don't remember any diagnosis, basically that he said somehow that braces would enhance my teeth. I think he said I didn't really need them but am not sure. My mother doesn't remember anything about the treatment at all, and she things the diagnosis was something like "a few teeth are not perfectly positioned and could cause problems in the future".

The treatment seemed incredibly dramatic for someone with supposedly almost perfect teeth. It was top and bottom wire braces, a lingual arch for the second year, and class II rubber bands for at least two months. I could always feel a tight painful squeezing on my upper teeth. The lingual arch seemed to press forward against my lower front teeth. I had lower molars filed to be made thinner, and also had changes to my bite that required filing tops of some of my molars I was never given any information about what was supposed to be wrong, what was being done, how, or why, and my parents remember nothing. I have tried to get my records and they were destroyed, it had been too long. I was able to observe myself during the treatment that the sides of my lower arch had been made perfectly straight like a line, instead of being slightly curved like they were. After about a year, the orthodontist decided he wanted some of my teeth extracted, I don't know which ones, which my parents refused, probably since they had been told at the start that this was some mild enhancement of almost perfect teeth. I remember him also upsetly telling my mom that he thought both my jaws protruded too much, especially my lower, and my chin was too long. I don't know why he said this, or any context. I believe that the main result of the treatment was shortening my upper jaw, lengthening and narrowing my lower jaw, and pushing my lower front teeth tightly together, they had had some small gaps between them before. Also moving most of my front teeth forward and out away from my tongue, for a reason I will discuss in the next paragraph.

The braces were finally removed, and my teeth looked the same, straight, but huge and long. All my gums had receded very high on my front teeth top and bottom. I thought I had gum disease or something and was taken to the dentist who told me the reason for the gum recession was "teeth shifting". I have researched what can cause gum recession with braces that looks like mine, when the problem isn't gingivitis or gum disease, and what I have learned is that this is caused by teeth being moved too far out towards the edge of the jawbone, so they are no longer as covered by the alveolar bone. If you move teeth out of the jawbone, the gum and alveolar bone don't follow, is what I have read.

I was given a clear upper retainer and a wire lower retainer which I didn't wear. My parents thought that nothing had been done since my teeth didn't look better, and that retainers were impractical.

By the time I was 16 I notices unusual wear on my lower front teeth, they were getting shorter and worn to different lengths. I believe my lower jaw was growing longer. When I was in my early 20s I noticed I was having trouble closing my upper teeth over my lower teeth, and having some mild speech problems. I started forcing my jaws closed.

In my 30s I noticed crowding, and crookedness of my lower front teeth,spreading of my upper teeth, and cracks, chips, and wear on all my front teeth caused by tight bite in front, which seems to keep getting worse. At the beginning of this year, I got into a situation where I could only close my teeth in front, not close my molars at all. I have had this on and off all year, and have had to learn a new way to use my jaw muscles to close my molars, which takes a lot of effort. I have had a lot of discomfort this year because of this. I had a cone beam xray this year for something else and noticed my lower front teeth are tipped or tilted way back in towards my tongue now.

I have read that lower teeth moving forward and inwards and lower jaw growing longer is a natural part of aging, but I feel like orthodontics caused this too, since I believe orthodontics lengthened and narrowed my lower jaw and shortened my upper jaw. I also wonder if my teeth are a lot more mobile than they should be because of loss of gum or bone support, since I had such bad visible gum recession after braces. I know orthodontics shortens the roots of teeth too, and I wonder if that could be part of this.

I tried to consult an orthodontist but was frightened by the hard sales push I got when I called, being told again and again that I could start treatment on the spot, and talk about how much it would cost. All I wanted to do was find out what is going on, if it was caused by orthodontics, or how much is natural and how much is caused by orthodontics, if it could be treated by orthodontics, and if I would have even more gum recession, and things moving and shifting. I cancelled. I have a lot of issues with dentists, combined with a busy dentist who is spread thin and trying to minimize time spent with patients while having five at a time, and am trying to work myself up to talk to my dentist about this. I wonder if I could get some kind of mild treatment like invisalign so I could at least easily close my mouth, but I am afraid of being upsold, and of undisclosed side effects or risks, or an experience like I had before, of something supposedly mild becoming something extreme, and ending up worse than before. I am also not into the idea of being in retainers for life.

I would be very grateful for any insights, advice, or ideas about this, or to hear about if anyone else has had any type of experience or situation similar to mine.

Thank you

Wow, that is quite a saga. I don't know where you are located, but if you are on the east coast (which I kinda doubt given your username) I'd highly recommend a consult with my former ortho Dr. Andrew Schwartz of Capitol Orthodontics in DC. He will give you a good exam and will definitely not try to talk you into braces. You definitely should keep looking for a second opinion, perhaps at a university dental school.
As far as retainers go, they are a lifetime commitment. After wearing them 24/7 for about three months, I was able to shift to nighttime wear only -- but the instruction was to do it every night which I have pretty much done for the past 6 years since being debraced. I got the invisalign "Vivera" clear retainers.
Best of luck to you!

Thanks Dan, I appreciate your reply and positivity. I wish I was nearer your former orthodontist, I would definitely go to him. The locals with their strong sales focus really don't seem that great. I will look into the possibility of a school, that is a good idea.

Thanks for the information about retainers and your experience with them. It is much appreciated.

I don’t have any insight. The only thing I can say is my Dentist/Orthodontist said she was both, but really turned out to have more of a con artist specialty. I liked her at first (and had a TERRIBLE fear of all things Dentist back then. Now I’m more of a regular dental fear). She upsold everything from dental veneers to laser hair removal in her “Dental Spa.” I think maybe the first Orthodontist you saw, saw dollar signs with your family and convinced them that perfection could be had with just a bit more work. Unfortunately, that seems to have come at the real cost of your Dental health. A teaching university is a good idea, as is starting on like Yelp or something looking for a no-frills Dental office. That’s what I have now. Good luck.

Thanks for the reply Danielle!
I was wondering if you might be willing to share a little bit about any red flags that might help me spot a bad orthodontist like the one you had, and green flags you have noticed with the good one you have now, that might help me spot something like them?

Yes, I suspect that I had unnecessary treatment when I was a kid for the purpose of making money from my folks, and that what has happened since is at least partly caused by that, and I am afraid of being caught like that again if I got more orthodontics, but also my teeth are positioned in a way that is quite uncomfortable and I am afraid it's going to get worse, so I really hope to at least find out what is happening.

I found out my local college has some kind of dentist/orthodontist clinic that is described as a residency, but on its website its seems almost like a normal dentist office. I will try and investigate them online more, and see if they are on yelp.

I wrote a long reply last night that must’ve gotten stuck somewhere in the internet atmosphere.

Anyway, to condense my thoughts…

RED FLAGS:
A “specialist” with more than one area of specialty
A focus on a “Hollywood Smile” or cosmetic work rather than true dental work
Being pushy or implying they’re giving you the best option
Too many new gadgets/latest & greatest technology
A bunch of new customers/advertising for new customer “specials”
A lot of assistants & other dentists in the same office where you always get someone new
A dentist who spends very little time with you during the exam/explaining the treatment
An office that has a lot of perks (spa treatments, etc)
All the employees have obvious veneers rather than regular healthy teeth


GREEN FLAGS:
A dentist who will refer you to a specialist for work beyond their scope (orthodontics, oral surgery, etc)

A dental office with a smaller number of front and back office assistants & you see the same ones each visit. They’ll freely tell you how long they’ve worked there while making small talk as they bring you back to the exam room/area

A dentist who fully explains why they think the treatment they’ve advised is necessary

YOU mention cosmetic options, not them

A no frills waiting room (just a tv & some magazines) where there’s no more than one other patient waiting. (So not a lot of double booking)

They’ll advise but not push for treatment options

They have no problem with you doing a consultation before committing to anything

There isn’t an ad for Care Credit everywhere you look

The assistants seem relaxed around the Doctors

They’ll listen to what you have to say, be it previous dental history or questions during your exam/treatment discussion


Good luck. & remember, yes, you’re there for dental work, BUT there’s a Dentist on practically every corner (in most cities, anyway) they need you more than you need them. You’re in control. If you don’t like their approach, there’s likely someone else who can do the same job with a better understanding of how to care for their patients.

That is an excellent overview, Danielle, and I completely agree!

Thanks so much Danielle!
This is really helpful.

Obviously everyone is a little different and there is no one size fits all, but thank you djspeece and you’re welcome mountainwest.

Thank you Danielle for the excellent and helpful column on what to look for on your initial consultation with your orthodontist! My first appointment is on October 31. This forum is a great way to share information and learn from others misfortunes- Cheers!

Dunnyet wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:25 pm Thank you Danielle for the excellent and helpful column on what to look for on your initial consultation with your orthodontist! My first appointment is on October 31. This forum is a great way to share information and learn from others misfortunes- Cheers!

How did your appointment go? Hopefully you have some good options/solutions. Best of luck!

Greetings All, my initial consultation on Oct. 31 went well, met my orthodontist, we set some goals for treatment. Was sent for diagnostic imaging yesterday, which also went well. Now waiting for my orthodontist, I’ll call her Dr. K, to review the results of my imaging and consult with my implant specialist to decide on the treatment plan. I’ll keep y’all posted! Cheers!

Sounds like things are moving in the right direction, and best of luck to you!