Ask the Doc Controversy

Message

#1 Post by **TimSeattle** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:02 pm

I haven't been at the Forum for awhile and just read the open and public messages back and forth between Drs. Rick and Randall. It really left a bad taste in my mouth. I work in health care and have seen this sort of thing between physicians, where they get really down-and-dirty nasty with each other. Specialists who think that no other physicians--especially general practitioners--have a right to say anything about their specialty.

Or physicians who call other physicians the medical version of village idiots. When this stuff goes public and is handled in a less-than-professional way, everyone loses. Why is it that many experts seem to feel this need to strike out? Incompetence is one thing; sheer nastiness because another medical professional has an axe to grind is another thing.

I see an orthodontist for my braces treatment who also teaches orthodontics at the local university school of dentistry. Anything that Dr. Rick recommended when I asked a question here, she heartily agreed with. I respect Dr. Randall, too, and am certain he is expert in his field.
I wish the controversy here had not been so public, and that Dr. Rick had not left.

#2 Post by **strugglebuggy** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:18 pm

Tim, I whole-heartedly agree..... very sad

#3 Post by **nahky** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:03 am

Have i missed something? What happened? What post was this?

#4 Post by **Clo** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:13 am

Hi,

I think this was it :

viewtopic.php?t=4981&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Yes, I was feeling sad when I read this too. I understood Dr. Rick left this
forum because of it. Whoever was right or wrong, it was certainly a loss.
Dr. Rick spend all his time in helping us out, did even do that for several
years. I was even more unhappy that almost no one seemed to miss
Dr. Rick. May I be clear, I appreciate very much Dr. Randall. It is just
great to have him as an expert here, but this should never have happened.
Maybe we can start a massive "calling Dr. Rick back". He has at least my
vote. But I fear it is definitive. The main board forum index was even
changed. The description that goes with "ask the Doc" does no longer
mention Dr. Rick. OMG, this is a severe loss for this site

...

#5 Post by **Attagirl2** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:47 am

I missed all of this. I am sorry to see Dr. Rick leave. He had good information to share with all who asked. This site helps us to understand some of the pros and cons that can happen when certain things occur. Bottom line - we are responsible for ourselves and what we believe.

I find it hard to put into words what I feel. Somehow, I think egos got into the brawl...

#6 Post by **swellen** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:00 am

I wondered why I hadn't seen any posts from him for a while... although I don't often read the Ask the Doc posts (being out of braces) so I missed the whole thing.

It seems like this one was brewing for quite some time, which is a shame because both docs gave good advice and at least enabled us to hear differing opinions - as what most of us heard anyway when doing the rounds of initial ortho appointments.

#7 Post by **Evelyn** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:19 am

it all fits in now...I was wondering why I hadn't seen any posts by Dr Rick and why the board was 'Ask the Doc' instead of 'Ask the Docs'. It's really sad that it had to end that way, but I do appreciate Dr. Randall for staying. Imagine not having anyone to answer all of our questions...

And I was still writing 'hey docs' at the top of every post in that forum... it all fits in now

Eve

#8 Post by **BraceMD** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:36 am

Differences of opinion like these, and disagreements, are very common in the medical community. With dentists, orthodontists, and physicians, you are dealing with very intelligent, highly skilled people... and their opinions and methods sometimes clash. I don't know that it's "ego"... rather skill and intelligence... that can cause brawls.

Usually as patients, we don't see it... but "behind the scenes", it's so common. And it's confusing to patients when it does come public... it's up to us as patients to figure out what we believe and who to trust.

In medical school we joke that some of the physicians who teach us "think they're God" because they seem to know so much and think that they're always right. But when it comes down to it, I don't know that it's egotism. Medical professionals know so much, and have gone through such grueling training... they're entitled to voice their opinions and believe that they are right, someone else is wrong, and question the opinions or credentials of another medical professional.

Welcome to the real world of medical professionals....

BraceMD

#9 Post by **sparklecopy** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:49 am

I'm confused. I thought both docs were women.

#10 Post by **momof2grlz** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:49 am

The final posting by Dr. Rick was in the extraction post listed above. I PM'd Dr. Rick after he signed off asking him to please come back to the forum. Apparently, there was some major ugliness that went back and forth between the Docs behind the scenes as well as in the forum. Dr. Rick e-mailed me saying he hadn't read the forum since the day he signed off, but that he still read his e-mail.

I think it's a real shame that the forum couldn't enjoy the benefits of having 2 medical professionals. Dr. Rick was a prolific poster and helped members of this forum almost daily. I appreciate Dr. Randall's input but I really wish Dr. Randall and Dr. Rick could have co-existed. We have enough questions and problems to keep several docs busy.

I'm still hoping that Dr. Rick will come back after a brief hiatus.

Chris

#11 Post by **BHW** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:10 am

While I agree that having an orthodontist on the forum is helpful, a far better approach for all of us is to ask our own ortho about specific problems/concerns we may be experiencing. Sometimes, general answers are insufficient - why take a risk on something as important and as expensive as orthodontic treatment? After all, we are paying our orthos pretty hefty fees - it's certainly acceptable to call your orthos office with questions. Cheers, BHW

#12 Post by **mtbrncofn** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:14 pm

Well that's a shame. I was completely clueless to the whole thing.

#13 Post by **dkt3** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:20 pm

Im a little sad too because this site and having the two docs has helped me sooooooo much. I think what I liked the best about both of them is that I coud get some different opinions and match it to what orthos were telling me.

I am sure everyone on this board realises both these docs are giving advice based on their experience and that cant possibly be misleading because ultimately it is the patients who take this advice, consider it and then find the best option for them.

A shame because I love having different opinions so I can make a better decision myself. I am sure most feel the same, but these two docs have done so much more for me than they will know and I am VERY VERY grateful and thank them for taking the time to listen.

#14 Post by **monique** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:55 am

it really is a shame, and I would imagine somewhat embarassing for the docs -- I think that both have behaved unprofessionally and I, for one, won't be counting on either's advise.

#15 Post by **fyrelight** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:41 pm

Now, y'all, just because there was a disagreement between the 2 docs doesnt mean either one of them has done anything wrong. There are always matters of disagreement in any industry. My husband is in church work.. sometimes its best to just separate rather than to get involved in further disagreements.

Dr. Rick, thanks, and I will miss you. Dr. Rick, thanks, and I'm glad you're sticking around.