Surgery at Dental School

Message

#16 Post by **Delag** » Fri May 30, 2008 11:55 am

With all of the problems you mention I have to agree with other posters and wonder out loud why these doctors say this is cosmetic. I think you need some new doctors to take a look at you. Phil sent his records to Dr. Wolford for a long distance consultation. I think he said it would cost around $500. It might be worth it to send your info along to one of the big guns (Arnett, Wolford......) and see what they have to say. I know you want to get the ball rolling, but you really need to take your time and do this the right way. Pain in the TMJ has a tendency to get worse not better - doens't sound cosmetic to me.

My OS told me that there can be geographical zones where there are a lot of great OMSs and areas where they are non exsistant. Dallas and Houston were the places he mentioned - in one there are dozens of great docs, in the other there are none he recommends. Maybe you are just in a OMS dead zone

#17 Post by **Round2inAZ** » Fri May 30, 2008 1:22 pm

Delag wrote:With all of the problems you mention I have to agree with other posters and wonder out loud why these doctors say this is cosmetic. I think you need some new doctors to take a look at you. Phil sent his records to Dr. Wolford for a long distance consultation. I think he said it would cost around $500. It might be worth it to send your info along to one of the big guns (Arnett, Wolford......) and see what they have to say. I know you want to get the ball rolling, but you really need to take your time and do this the right way. Pain in the TMJ has a tendency to get worse not better - doens't sound cosmetic to me.

My OS told me that there can be geographical zones where there are a lot of great OMSs and areas where they are non exsistant. Dallas and Houston were the places he mentioned - in one there are dozens of great docs, in the other there are none he recommends. Maybe you are just in a OMS dead zone

Hello Friend South of the Border,

An OMS dead zone?! Wow.

That is a GREAT IDEA about a consultation with Arnett or Wolford. It never hurts to get additional opinions -- especially from one of those guys. It would be $500 well spent.

I just hung up from scheduling a full workup at an orofacial pain center (covered by my insurance). In light of yesterday's TMJ "attack," I think it would behoove me to find out if indeed I have TMD and if so obtain the documentation. If nothing else, it would be a tick in the "functional" column that would may help get me a surgeon.

I have been habitually not biting on the back teeth and can't hold that for longer than a few seconds. This was discovered at my orthodontic evaluation -- I hadn't even noticed that I was doing it. So, this AM I forced myself to do it and hold it. In short order I developed fatigue and a headache!! This stuff definitely warrants further investigation.

Thanks so much for your input, Delag.

#18 Post by **Round2inAZ** » Fri May 30, 2008 3:49 pm

Meryaten wrote:Well, biting the teeth closed for a period like that could cause anyone pain, even if there are no orthodontic or skeletal issues - we're not meant to do that! A normal, relaxed posture has the teeth slightly apart and the tip of the tongue resting on the roof of the mouth.

One word of caution on Arnett and Wolford - I've heard from another member here that they are both extremely agressive about operating. I'd be very hesitatnt to open up and operate on the jaw joints unless I was entirely sure this was the best course of action. And this may be what they recommend (and is not really what you're looking for).

Well I didn't make myself clear -- I don't EVER bite down on the back teeth. I can't do that for even a few seconds -- the orthodontist even remarked on it. So that is NOT normal.

Thanks for the warning. I suspect that my TMJ problems are too mild to make much difference at all, especially from the insurance perspective (a road I don't want to go down anyway), so I seriously doubt that anyone would want to operate on them. If anyone suggests it, I will refuse. TMJ diskectomy guarantees eventual OA in the joint. No way, Jose. The only reason I'm pursuing the workup is to have more documentation than what I have now, which is only "TMJ click" notation on an initial orthodontic workup. I need a surgeon, and the better case I can make the easier that will be. This "cosmetic" box they've put me in sucks.

#19 Post by **Round2inAZ** » Fri May 30, 2008 7:06 pm

Meryaten wrote:But a mild posterior openbite doesn't necessarily mean surgery is required either. But my point holds even more if this is something your teeth cannot naturally do, and require you to force your jaw into an unnatural posture - it's even more likely that would hurt!

No argument there. My point is merely that the pain/fatigue should not be there, so obviously something ain't right.

Never said it was an indication for surgery. Two have already said that based on my teeth I am not a candidate -- at least not for their "functional" correction.

#20 Post by **Round2inAZ** » Sat May 31, 2008 10:16 am

Meryaten wrote:Why shouldn't the pain be there? Let me make an analogy: if you bend your little finger back further than it's meant to go and hold it there, wouldn't you expect it to hurt? By the same token, if you have a posterior openbite (be it dental or skeletal in origin) and you try to force those teeth to close together, don't you think your jaw joint might be in pain? All I am trying to say is this doesn't necessarily mean there is anything wrong with teh jaw joints, and indeed doesn't necessarily mean there is any skeletal issue. It may all be dental.

Have you considered seeing an orthodontist first?

Please go back and reread my posts: As stated several times already, it was during the orthodontist's examination that this was discovered. It is NOT NORMAL, and he made a remark about it.

As for my holding the position, it was just an experiment that I conducted to see what would happen. Nowhere did I express surprise at this outcome, so your comments are mystifying.

Additional info: There ARE jaw issues: I have already been diagnosed with TMJ syndrome (I had crippling arthritis with TMJ involvement, now in remission) in the remote past but don't have those records. The "recent" stuff includes one flaming "attack" two days ago plus intermittent facial and head pain going on for years that I have been (a) ignoring to a large extent since it is mild and (b) blaming on other things, particularly wearing eyeglasses (which I do while working at home). The orofacial pain/TMD eval I will be undergoing will determine the source of that pain. At any rate, if I DO have TMD I need the documentation which will probably assist in my quest for a surgeon.