Contimplating Jaw Surgery and would love opinions- my PICS!
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I am not sure I even see what is "wrong" when looking at your photos... I hate to be so analytical, but do you really feel that undergoing such a drastic surgery, when you don't really need it, is going to "fix" your appearance in your eyes?
I went into braces in December, am looking to have surgery in June and was told I will be out of braces by December at the latest. My teeth were not entirely straight when I went into braces, and they were straightened out within two months. I think it really depends on what the orthodontist and surgeon are doing though.
The change in my bite due to the braces is what has bothered me already. I'm still two months out from surgery and I have a lot of difficulty chewing food now. I'm still not used to the change so I find myself choking frequently on simple foods I never used to have problems with. The physical appearance of my bite is quite different too.
I went into braces in December, am looking to have surgery in June and was told I will be out of braces by December at the latest. My teeth were not entirely straight when I went into braces, and they were straightened out within two months. I think it really depends on what the orthodontist and surgeon are doing though.
The change in my bite due to the braces is what has bothered me already. I'm still two months out from surgery and I have a lot of difficulty chewing food now. I'm still not used to the change so I find myself choking frequently on simple foods I never used to have problems with. The physical appearance of my bite is quite different too.
So you only had to wear braces for 2 months before surgery?? thats good isnt it??gatorseh wrote:I am not sure I even see what is "wrong" when looking at your photos... I hate to be so analytical, but do you really feel that undergoing such a drastic surgery, when you don't really need it, is going to "fix" your appearance in your eyes?
I went into braces in December, am looking to have surgery in June and was told I will be out of braces by December at the latest. My teeth were not entirely straight when I went into braces, and they were straightened out within two months. I think it really depends on what the orthodontist and surgeon are doing though.
The change in my bite due to the braces is what has bothered me already. I'm still two months out from surgery and I have a lot of difficulty chewing food now. I'm still not used to the change so I find myself choking frequently on simple foods I never used to have problems with. The physical appearance of my bite is quite different too.
I had them put on in December and I am having surgery in June. My teeth were straight within two months, but that doesn't mean they were in the right position for surgery. They're moving your teeth for where they will be AFTER the jaw surgery, so your bite will get a lot worse before it gets better.
I agree with Phil 110% here. I cannot IMAGINE my surgeon having gone through with an op for purely cosmetic reasons. He was the first to tell me that if I wasn't having chewing and breathing problems he wouldn't even mess with it, because of the possible complications, etc. Is it true that you've had at least one OS tell you yes? If so, I'd check that guy's credentials and talk to a few other OS's as well, see if they'd even consider your problem structurally. Oy.Sorry if I offend, but if you go through with this, I think you're nuts. And, in my opinion, any surgeon/ortho team that would encourage it is acting in an irresponsible if not unethical manner. That's just my opinion, for what it's worth.
You SHOULD feel uneasy about this kind of op - it's a real op, not like getting wisdom teeth removed, and I don't think there's a person here who hasn't agonized over the decision. Knee surgery is less invasive - it's outpatient! Hell, it took me 10 years, a ton of headaches from my bite, degenerating in chewing to the point I didn't eat crunchy foods, and complete denial that I even had chewing issues, to even come to the point where I considered surgery an option.
If you have the ability to chew and it's PURELY cosmetic - which is what it sounds like - seriously, don't don't do it. I only spent 4 months in braces pre op because my teeth were straight, but that's NOT THE POINT. The point is that you are having surgery that is structurally unnecessary, and that surgery comes with a great deal of risk.
I'd STRONGLY recommend not doing something so drastic so young. Go to grad school. Tour the world. Visit wine country in France and Italy and specialize in red wine varieties. Everyone likes smart, well-traveled men better than strong-jawed men.
Oy.
thanks for your comments..
i will definitely be reconsidering. I am going to do the consultation [$500] just so i have a better idea of everything.
The Dr. is Dr. Gunson and Dr. Arnett, renowned Orthognathic surgeons. I have heard from many sources they are considered in the top 3 if not the best for MaxilloFacial surgery in the country.
www.arnettcourses.com
i will definitely be reconsidering. I am going to do the consultation [$500] just so i have a better idea of everything.
The Dr. is Dr. Gunson and Dr. Arnett, renowned Orthognathic surgeons. I have heard from many sources they are considered in the top 3 if not the best for MaxilloFacial surgery in the country.
www.arnettcourses.com
brendan,
How about a smaller chin implant instead, something that's more balanced to the size and shape of your face? Have the old one taken out and a new one put in. Less invasive. Less dangerous.
I just can't believe that you would consider putting yourself at risk with MAJOR SURGERY that you absolutely don't need. Here's what happened to me in a nutshell:
My first Surgery was SARPE in 2006. No problems.
I had a double-jaw surgery in June 2007 to correct a huge underbite (13 mm). Mandible healed. Maxilla didn't. Relapsed completely. Partially healed. Bite was again a mess, and could not be finished orthodontically without extractions. I would not agree to pulling perfectly healthy teeth out of my head that were not causing me any trouble.
Surgeon went in and redid maxilla in December 2007. Recovery awful. Almost sixteen weeks, and I'm still dealing with chronic pain, and a possible loose plate. Sinuses are a mess--had the worst sinus infection of my life this spring. Surgeon says he's confident bone has healed, but I'm basically refusing orthodontic treatment until my pain subsides--it just doesn't make sense to me, and frankly, I can't tolerate it. The only thing that has helped is my recent discovery of acupuncture, which seems to be giving me relief. I've been on soft food since June of 2007.
OK, so your surgeon would be one of the top guys in the nation. You would still risk your health for a bigger jaw? Come on. It's MAJOR SURGERY. You'll be out for at least three hours. Do you really think that's responsible behavior? I agree with Arvensis. Live with your face a while and see if it still bothers you, but so far, most of the people here on archwired think you look just fine. I agree with you that your chin implant does create issues in regards to your profile, which is why I made the above suggestion. Quite honestly, I think that you looked more attractive with no chin implant at all!
And, I really hope that you like yourself, no matter what your face looks like.
How about a smaller chin implant instead, something that's more balanced to the size and shape of your face? Have the old one taken out and a new one put in. Less invasive. Less dangerous.
I just can't believe that you would consider putting yourself at risk with MAJOR SURGERY that you absolutely don't need. Here's what happened to me in a nutshell:
My first Surgery was SARPE in 2006. No problems.
I had a double-jaw surgery in June 2007 to correct a huge underbite (13 mm). Mandible healed. Maxilla didn't. Relapsed completely. Partially healed. Bite was again a mess, and could not be finished orthodontically without extractions. I would not agree to pulling perfectly healthy teeth out of my head that were not causing me any trouble.
Surgeon went in and redid maxilla in December 2007. Recovery awful. Almost sixteen weeks, and I'm still dealing with chronic pain, and a possible loose plate. Sinuses are a mess--had the worst sinus infection of my life this spring. Surgeon says he's confident bone has healed, but I'm basically refusing orthodontic treatment until my pain subsides--it just doesn't make sense to me, and frankly, I can't tolerate it. The only thing that has helped is my recent discovery of acupuncture, which seems to be giving me relief. I've been on soft food since June of 2007.
OK, so your surgeon would be one of the top guys in the nation. You would still risk your health for a bigger jaw? Come on. It's MAJOR SURGERY. You'll be out for at least three hours. Do you really think that's responsible behavior? I agree with Arvensis. Live with your face a while and see if it still bothers you, but so far, most of the people here on archwired think you look just fine. I agree with you that your chin implant does create issues in regards to your profile, which is why I made the above suggestion. Quite honestly, I think that you looked more attractive with no chin implant at all!
And, I really hope that you like yourself, no matter what your face looks like.
There are no ordinary moments.
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If i had your profile and bite i wouldnt do it either but my pics clearly show i have a problem 
and i have to do it. My ortho originally said i could have braces to cover it up but my profile would stay the same and thats the part i hate most.
and i have to do it. My ortho originally said i could have braces to cover it up but my profile would stay the same and thats the part i hate most.
wisdom teeth removed under GA nov07 * Braced 8/2/08 * 2 premolars removed Apr08 * Adjustment 4 rebonding, 4 molar bands & new wire 4/7/08 * 31Jul wire change * 28 Aug last wire fitted and lower powerchain put on. 29th May moulds and x rays. 31st July Surgery date 
Having looked at the second set of pics, i still say youd be mad to even think about it.
Although my problems since surgery havent been so severe or long lasting as phils, heres what ive gone through since my op (and thats only 8 weeks ago)
*bad reaction to the anesethic
*haemorrage upon waking up from operation site
*very erratic pulse, low oxygen levels and very low blood pressure, resulting in me being very faint
*Having to have my jaws tightly banded shut for 6 weeks, so only "eating" mush
*getting an infection in the plate in my jaw, meaning i need another operation in the future, and in the short term meaning i look MUCH worse than before having the op, oh and im in daily pain etc
*haing to have a tooth removed tomorrow as its now in the wrong place.
*still no sign of being allowed to eat solid foods again either.
Sure only a few of us have had it rough, but are you sure its potenially worth going through all these things, for something thats not medically necessary?
Although my problems since surgery havent been so severe or long lasting as phils, heres what ive gone through since my op (and thats only 8 weeks ago)
*bad reaction to the anesethic
*haemorrage upon waking up from operation site
*very erratic pulse, low oxygen levels and very low blood pressure, resulting in me being very faint
*Having to have my jaws tightly banded shut for 6 weeks, so only "eating" mush
*getting an infection in the plate in my jaw, meaning i need another operation in the future, and in the short term meaning i look MUCH worse than before having the op, oh and im in daily pain etc
*haing to have a tooth removed tomorrow as its now in the wrong place.
*still no sign of being allowed to eat solid foods again either.
Sure only a few of us have had it rough, but are you sure its potenially worth going through all these things, for something thats not medically necessary?
Braces on 11th June 2006,~ BSSO and Wisdom tooth removal 11th February 2008,~ Plate Removal 14th May 2008,~ Braces off 28th August 2008.
http://adultwithbraces.blogspot.com/
As others have said, it's hard to get a good idea of what the outcome would be by jutting your jaw out. I've looked at all the pics you've posted:
-In the first set, I am afraid to say (because it may offend the underbiters on here) that while you look good now, your 'masculine after' pictures make you look not-cute, and even a bit ugly.
-In the second set (which are better, and your teeth and current bite are beautiful), your chin is brought to a better place than where it is now but I don't think your whole jawbone will move the way you expect, just the chin. The most common surgery to correct the lower jaw in orthognathics is the bilateral saggital split osteotomy:
You can see from where the incisions are made that this moves the front of the jaw forwards, but leaves the 'corners' (i.e. the square-shaped bits by your ears) more or less where they are. So, you won't gain a 'square' jaw with this sort of surgery, as you have predicted in the first picture in your second set. You'll just get a more prominent chin. Does that make sense?
The cynic in me says that any US ortho surgeon will perform this surgery if he's going to make some money from it and it can be justified in some way, whether on functional or cosmetic grounds - so I wouldn't necessarily accept that just because an oral surgeon tells you you would benefit from this, that you genuinely would. I live in the land of socialised medicine where the government picks up the tab, and where you don't get to have this surgery at all unless you _need_ it. Personally I was told there would be no hope in hell of my teeth staying straight after braces unless I had the surgery, so I went through with it.
And then there's the surgery itself. It's head surgery and thus by definition is major surgery. We have had a few unlucky patients on here with post-surgical complications, which are rare, but it can happen. Most of us end up numb for a while - I had the chop 8 months ago and still have only half the feeling back in my chin and lower lip. The post-surgical period isn't fun for anyone. I don't regret my surgery but I would not want to have to go through it again, that's for sure.
In summary - me (a woman), thinks you look cute now, would look borderline ugly with the jawline you want, and thinks it's major surgery which you shouldn't put yourself through just for a stronger jawline (which is questionably aesthetically pleasing anyway).
-In the first set, I am afraid to say (because it may offend the underbiters on here) that while you look good now, your 'masculine after' pictures make you look not-cute, and even a bit ugly.
-In the second set (which are better, and your teeth and current bite are beautiful), your chin is brought to a better place than where it is now but I don't think your whole jawbone will move the way you expect, just the chin. The most common surgery to correct the lower jaw in orthognathics is the bilateral saggital split osteotomy:
You can see from where the incisions are made that this moves the front of the jaw forwards, but leaves the 'corners' (i.e. the square-shaped bits by your ears) more or less where they are. So, you won't gain a 'square' jaw with this sort of surgery, as you have predicted in the first picture in your second set. You'll just get a more prominent chin. Does that make sense?
The cynic in me says that any US ortho surgeon will perform this surgery if he's going to make some money from it and it can be justified in some way, whether on functional or cosmetic grounds - so I wouldn't necessarily accept that just because an oral surgeon tells you you would benefit from this, that you genuinely would. I live in the land of socialised medicine where the government picks up the tab, and where you don't get to have this surgery at all unless you _need_ it. Personally I was told there would be no hope in hell of my teeth staying straight after braces unless I had the surgery, so I went through with it.
And then there's the surgery itself. It's head surgery and thus by definition is major surgery. We have had a few unlucky patients on here with post-surgical complications, which are rare, but it can happen. Most of us end up numb for a while - I had the chop 8 months ago and still have only half the feeling back in my chin and lower lip. The post-surgical period isn't fun for anyone. I don't regret my surgery but I would not want to have to go through it again, that's for sure.
In summary - me (a woman), thinks you look cute now, would look borderline ugly with the jawline you want, and thinks it's major surgery which you shouldn't put yourself through just for a stronger jawline (which is questionably aesthetically pleasing anyway).
Braced May 2005
Bimaxillary surgery Aug 2007
Debraced Jun 2008
Bimaxillary surgery Aug 2007
Debraced Jun 2008
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Steph-in-WI
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:36 pm
- Location: Wisconsin, USA
- Contact:
Brendan,
Dr. Arnett is one of the top Orthagnathic Surgeons in the country. I am frankly surprised that he would consider operating on a perfect bite. Have you actually seen him yet? As the saying goes, "if it aint broke, don't fix it". I am not opposed to cosmetic procedures what-so-ever. If someone has the means to fix something that they don't like, by all means, go ahead. I personally don't see in your photos the same thing you do. I have an extremely retrognathic profile, a recessed chin, and I still wouldn't consider doing this for cosmetic reasons. It is serious stuff, and if you have complications, you could end up with a non-functioning bite. Believe me, that would be much worse than the flaws you apparantly see in your profile.
If you really feel the need to do something cosmetic, maybe consider a sliding genioplasty. Like I said, I really don't see the recessed chin that you speak of, but genioplasty should correct it. This is a much better solution than the chin implant that you have because you will have no artificial substance in there.
We are our own worst critics, and I think the most important thing for you right now, before you make a decision, is to take some time for self reflection to really understand why you are unhappy with your appearance, because most of us don't see it. Spend some money on a psychiatrist before dropping $40k on an extremely invasive surgery that may or may not make you feel better about your appearance. I don't say that to sound harsh, but I have seen it so many times ... if I just loose weight, if I just fix my nose, if I just do this ... I'll be happy. At the end of the day, you won't be happy, because you have to fix what's on the inside before you can be happy with what you have on the outside. Once this is done, those exterior things often do not matter as much.
Dr. Arnett is one of the top Orthagnathic Surgeons in the country. I am frankly surprised that he would consider operating on a perfect bite. Have you actually seen him yet? As the saying goes, "if it aint broke, don't fix it". I am not opposed to cosmetic procedures what-so-ever. If someone has the means to fix something that they don't like, by all means, go ahead. I personally don't see in your photos the same thing you do. I have an extremely retrognathic profile, a recessed chin, and I still wouldn't consider doing this for cosmetic reasons. It is serious stuff, and if you have complications, you could end up with a non-functioning bite. Believe me, that would be much worse than the flaws you apparantly see in your profile.
If you really feel the need to do something cosmetic, maybe consider a sliding genioplasty. Like I said, I really don't see the recessed chin that you speak of, but genioplasty should correct it. This is a much better solution than the chin implant that you have because you will have no artificial substance in there.
We are our own worst critics, and I think the most important thing for you right now, before you make a decision, is to take some time for self reflection to really understand why you are unhappy with your appearance, because most of us don't see it. Spend some money on a psychiatrist before dropping $40k on an extremely invasive surgery that may or may not make you feel better about your appearance. I don't say that to sound harsh, but I have seen it so many times ... if I just loose weight, if I just fix my nose, if I just do this ... I'll be happy. At the end of the day, you won't be happy, because you have to fix what's on the inside before you can be happy with what you have on the outside. Once this is done, those exterior things often do not matter as much.
[quote]
in regards to complications
In regards to your concern about the nerve and sensory changes; in our patients only about 5% of our patients experience any permanent sensory changes in the face post-surgery. Of the 5% of patients the changes are very minor, only involve small isolated portions of the face, and do not create any kind of disability or difficultly with movement or normal function.
in regards to fixing somewhat minor issues
Yes, we do have patients that come to the office to address “minorâ€
in regards to complications
In regards to your concern about the nerve and sensory changes; in our patients only about 5% of our patients experience any permanent sensory changes in the face post-surgery. Of the 5% of patients the changes are very minor, only involve small isolated portions of the face, and do not create any kind of disability or difficultly with movement or normal function.
in regards to fixing somewhat minor issues
Yes, we do have patients that come to the office to address “minorâ€
Nerve wise, im sure that MOST people dont have any permanent nerve damage, but for some people its months and months before they get the feeling back. Ive been fairly lucky on that front, but for the 1st few weeks couldnt drink anything from a cup without most of it pouring down my front, due to my lip being so numb. So althougth its rarely permanent, its still a big issue in the weeks and months after the op.
Please dont think im saying you shouldnt have it done, as the final decision is yours only, but i thought i was very prepared for my op and it was only afterwards that i realised that they hadnt told me enough about the possible risks.
Please dont think im saying you shouldnt have it done, as the final decision is yours only, but i thought i was very prepared for my op and it was only afterwards that i realised that they hadnt told me enough about the possible risks.
Braces on 11th June 2006,~ BSSO and Wisdom tooth removal 11th February 2008,~ Plate Removal 14th May 2008,~ Braces off 28th August 2008.
http://adultwithbraces.blogspot.com/
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december08changed
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:53 pm
Brendan, I think you have major self esteem issues or something. The "problems" that you seem to be describing are practically non-existant. If I were you I would stop analyzing every little thing you believe to be wrong with your face and start living your life and worrying about things that matter. If you decide to go ahead with this surgery, you'll probably come out of it with something else you don't like. Don't even think about this surgery. The only reason any of us on here did it was for functional reasons, ie. CAN'T CHEW FOOD. You probably have body dysmorphic disorder, see a psychiatrist. SERIOUSLY.
I had this surgery done because I wanted a perfect smile. I had a slight underbite and I guess I could have gone through teeth removal and camoflouging but i chose the operative route for stability and functional reason. I must say that for me, it was mostly cosmetic as I did not have any chewing or pain issues related to my bite.
ON that note. I had to only pay .. well not ONLY but compared to you guys in the states, 7200 for my BSSO and sliding genioplasty. I would NEVER have forked out 40 gs for the surgery if it would cost me that much to fix my bite.
Honestly, like others on this board so far I think you look perfectly fine. Would the surgery make yolook diff? Yes. WOUld it make you look BETTER? imo no. would it make you look WORSE.. again imo no. your bite is perfect. dont mess wth it. also. your surgery i dotn think would be jsut mocing your lower jaw. because your bite is pertect i think you would need to move BOTH jaws forward to keep the bite aligned but the lower facial features more pominent. I only had my lower jaw set back. i cannot imagine how much more dreadful in terms of recovery having my upper jaw operated on woudl be.
go to youtube and search for jaw surgery. you will see ppl who have had jaw surgery who really do need it.
in the end its up to you. for me, it's a girl getting her sie B breasts augmentde into a Small C. THis isn't just broken bones healing as if you broke your arm. I can say it took a blow to me psychologically as well during the first few weeks of surgery. And As mentioned again, with your appreance and bite i woudln't risk even 1% chance of complications.. cuz the rewards dont outweigh the risk of sesame happening.
ON that note. I had to only pay .. well not ONLY but compared to you guys in the states, 7200 for my BSSO and sliding genioplasty. I would NEVER have forked out 40 gs for the surgery if it would cost me that much to fix my bite.
Honestly, like others on this board so far I think you look perfectly fine. Would the surgery make yolook diff? Yes. WOUld it make you look BETTER? imo no. would it make you look WORSE.. again imo no. your bite is perfect. dont mess wth it. also. your surgery i dotn think would be jsut mocing your lower jaw. because your bite is pertect i think you would need to move BOTH jaws forward to keep the bite aligned but the lower facial features more pominent. I only had my lower jaw set back. i cannot imagine how much more dreadful in terms of recovery having my upper jaw operated on woudl be.
go to youtube and search for jaw surgery. you will see ppl who have had jaw surgery who really do need it.
in the end its up to you. for me, it's a girl getting her sie B breasts augmentde into a Small C. THis isn't just broken bones healing as if you broke your arm. I can say it took a blow to me psychologically as well during the first few weeks of surgery. And As mentioned again, with your appreance and bite i woudln't risk even 1% chance of complications.. cuz the rewards dont outweigh the risk of sesame happening.