why do people usually get attractive after surgery

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Kirish
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#46 Post by Kirish »

crazybeautiful wrote:Kirish- your comment didn't offend me, but it upset me. Why? Because it brought back all the feelings I used to feel. I don't know how much of my blog people have read, but this particular post is what I'm being forced to remember now, and why I'm upset again now:

http://crazybeautifulsurgery.blogspot.c ... night.html
But Crazybeautiful, is it really fair to compare your brother's comment to my comment ?, the fact that you're post-op and looks wonderful (which was an important part of my comment) doesn't change anything ?, how can you compare my comment to the comment of your brother hitting an exposed nerve while you're still pre-op and have no clue how things will turn out ?
Since you hate your underbite so much, I would have thought you would have the knowledge to consider what a comment like that would do.
I think we differ here. I actually crave to get such comments post-op. It will help prove it wasn't all for nothing.
I'm not happy that I am now suddenly attractive to you, because it has nothing to do with anything...
I don't understand why you say this.
All the surgery does is take away the malocclusion, it does not 'enhance' or 'improve' like some plastic surgery of a page 3 girl who wants her C cups turning into a DD
I'm sorry but I believe we're getting into semantics here. Turning C cups into a DD will not make someone more beautiful, it might make her more sexy. When I say "beautiful" I mean facial aesthetics. If we compare your before and after pictures, your facial aesthetics are clearly enhanced. This will have a great impact on the opposite sex.

It's just like if you took the most beautiful supermodel and gave her underbite. Will she turn heads the same way as before ?, no. Is she less attractive ?, yes. You don't have to be the most beautiful supermodel for underbite to have a similar impact on your life.
Noam.

HokieTay
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#47 Post by HokieTay »

To make things clear: I admire the courage of crazybeautiful to go through this surgery to fix her underbite. I admire her results and think that she looks lovely now. I pointed out that prior surgery I found her underbite unattractive (like I find mine's). So freaking what ???, are we living in the past ?, NEWS FLASH: crazybeautiful done her surgery and has a lovely face, her underbite is gone. How can you offend something that does not exist anymore ?

It's like looking at childhood pictures of someone and pointing out how he looked funny as a child, in comparison to how great he looks now. Or telling someone how a haircut he used at the past made him look unattractive, and that his current haircut makes him look extremely attractive. All these examples have the same notion: the person looks great now, but didn't look great in the past. Since we are living at the present and not at the past, what's the point of agonizing ?[/quote]

I am not going to speak for crazybeautiful as I think she made her feelings clear. Umm, no we're not living in the past, but pre-op is how the person lived for the first 20, 25, 30, or whatever years of their life. I doubt they want to look back at that time and think wow, I was ugly, but now I'm pretty so it's okay. If you think that way, you're surely still going to be a miserable person post-op. You can offend something (or hurt feelings) of something that doesn't exist because it DID IT EXIST AT ONE TIME!! It's not like anyone wants to erase those 20 years of their life. A haircut compared to misaligned jaws is a horrible example! People aren't born with haircuts.

I think you need to find peace with yourself or you're not going to be happy after this surgery either. And if you are it will just be a narcissistic happiness b/c you will be focusing on how "attractive" you have "become."
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Audra
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#48 Post by Audra »

Kirish, it's very apparent that you do not and will not ever understand how politically incorrect and hurtful it is to point out to someone that you thought they were once ugly or unattractive. You think that by saying they are beautiful NOW makes the statement less hurtful. It does not. There is a huge difference between saying to someone "The result of this surgery on your face is remarkable. You look beautiful (or whatever complimentary word you choose) and telling them they were unattractive (to you) before. You even posted Youtube videos of people and called them "ugly" before.

I think Hokietay and Crazybeautiful both summed it up quite nicely, but as I suspect you will not "get" what they are saying.

I agree with Hokietay that you will likely end up miserable after the surgery if all you are doing this for is to be physically attractive to other people. There's more to a person's attractiveness than just the physical. There is also personality, of which you appear to be sorely lacking. So, even if you do become more physically appealing, my bet is that whoever you attract is not going to stick around once they get the full impact of your narcissistic personality and judgmental characteristics. So good luck with that.

Crazybeautiful, I have to say that I'm really sorry you turned into "Exhibit A" on this thread.
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crazybeautiful
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#49 Post by crazybeautiful »

Kirish, my comment:
'Since you hate your underbite so much, I would have thought you would have the knowledge to consider what a comment like that would do'
was to make the point that if you hate your underbite now, if someone tells you that yes they agree they think you look awful, I don't think it would make you feel any better about your underbite and your current situation. Just because I'm post-surgery doesn't mean I have suddenly changed mentally, and that I can look back at myself and say 'God, what a minger I was! Thankfully at least only 19 years of my life have been a waste'

Comments about surgery giving someone a good outcome is fine, but you will probably come to realise post-surgery that comments about past attractiveness does nothing but reaffirm old feelings, not annhiliate them. If you hate your underbite so much in terms of it making you 'less attractive', then you should know what those feelings are
~SARME, Nov 2007. 10mm expansion

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VikingGirl
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#50 Post by VikingGirl »

Originally, I did it for purely functional reasons (my dentist had always said I would need it.. But I, back then a kid, couldn't see a reason why.) So then I got braces on - and then suddenly this huge underbite appeared! In some months, my teeth sat as they always should have. Know I can't wait to look pretty! I don't care wether it's narcisistic or not; It's a win/win situation for me. I can chew AND have a balanced face :D

Kirish
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#51 Post by Kirish »

HokieTay:
Umm, no we're not living in the past, but pre-op is how the person lived for the first 20, 25, 30, or whatever years of their life. I doubt they want to look back at that time and think wow, I was ugly, but now I'm pretty so it's okay.
Why hold on to thoughts that make you miserable ?, nobody here read books of Katie Byron ? (www.thework.com), I'm far from being able to follow her way of life, but her method does help to get rid of thoughts that really gets you nothing but pain.
If you think that way, you're surely still going to be a miserable person post-op.
Why ?

I don't consider myself a "miserable person". To tell the truth if I had the choice today I'm not sure I would have done this surgery.

I committed to this surgery 2.5 years ago when my self esteem/confidence hit rock bottom regarding my looks (was 29 y/o then). Together with committing to this surgery I started going to the gym (I was underweight for all my life) and gain weight. The changes my body went in the gym really helped with my confidence, and 1.5 years ago for the first time I started a relationship.

My girlfriend thinks this surgery is insanity. I think I probably have the confidence of going through life with the underbite I had back when I started orthodontic treatment. The thing is that my underbite now is 4X worse. I really look ugly, and it's too late to retreat.

You can offend something (or hurt feelings) of something that doesn't exist because it DID IT EXIST AT ONE TIME!! It's not like anyone wants to erase those 20 years of their life.


But why erase ?, I dedicated the last decade to my career (and quite succeeded, probably because I didn't have distractions from the opposite sex). My career has got nothing to do with how I look (and so Crazybeautiful's). I acknowledge that I didn't look very good in the last decade, but I don't define my essence just through my looks.


Audra,
There's more to a person's attractiveness than just the physical. There is also personality, of which you appear to be sorely lacking. So, even if you do become more physically appealing, my bet is that whoever you attract is not going to stick around once they get the full impact of your narcissistic personality and judgmental characteristics. So good luck with that.
Lol Audra. Just a week ago my girlfriend said to me how ugly I look (making fun of course, after I pushed her a little bit). I told her if I'm so ugly why did you hit on me ? she replied because I'm not with you for your looks (sadly I'm not rich either).

I guess you can't really know someone enough from several posts on the internet, even if he's politically incorrect in some. Right ?



Crazybeautiful,
if you hate your underbite now, if someone tells you that yes they agree they think you look awful, I don't think it would make you feel any better about your underbite and your current situation.
My girlfriend tells me this from time to time. She is not quite kidding, she really thinks my underbite is ugly but this doesn't affect her love for me by one bit (she usually say this when I push her a little bit). She tells me that guys don't need to have a good looking face (which I told her I don't buy). I can tell you that the effect of what she say on me is zero. Who cares my underbite makes me look ugly ?, it's going to go away on July 19th...

She also told me that several years ago, when we were doing first degree (we were at the same faculty, but not friends then), people thought I looked sick (me being so thin, and maybe the underbite contributed to this), and that my haircut was horrible. I can't help but laugh, who cares ?, I'm not thin anymore, my haircut is nicer, soon I won't have an underbite. Don't see a point agonizing over the past. I didn't have a girlfriend in the last decade, but why should I care I have one now (and don't think this went unnoticed, it came to a point that my grandfather asked if I'm attracted to men, my grandfather !!!) . Some people who learned with me thought I looked sick back then, but why should I care I look very healthy now and was on the dean's list every year back then (probably a direct consequence of not having a romantic life).
Just because I'm post-surgery doesn't mean I have suddenly changed mentally, and that I can look back at myself and say 'God, what a minger I was! Thankfully at least only 19 years of my life have been a waste'
But why a waste ?, you are soon going to be a clinical psychologist, an awesome career and one that is very hard to get accepted to at least in my country. You also look very good today, and you're still very young. Your future is bright Crazybeautiful :)
Noam.

shanalouis
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...............

#52 Post by shanalouis »

i've seen people become beautiful after surgery :?.........

LAJaw
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#53 Post by LAJaw »

why do people usually get attractive after surgery
Attractiveness is very subjective, but there have been scientific studies that try to quantify what makes a person "attractive." One leading area of study is that "attractiveness" is directly related to "averageness" - that is attractive features are the most average ones.

This theory had a rather amusing start. A social scientist was trying to figure out if criminals all had a certain "look", so he took a bunch of pictures of convicted criminals and merged them together. He didn't find any common facial features for criminals, but instead he found that the composite pictures were more attractive than the individual pictures.

Further studies took photos of many different faces and merged them together, so that the resulting composite face averaged together all the independent facial features. They found that the more pictures used to create the composite, the higher the rated attractiveness - in other words, the more "average" the face, the more attractive it was.

Many of us seeking surgery have poorly positioned jaws because they are too large/small/forward/recessed/high/low/unbalanced/etc. But "too <insert description>" compared to what? Why to the average! Hence when we have surgery, it corrects our jaw to a more "average" position, and with more average jaw, we appear more attractive.

For more about the theory of "averageness", Wikipedia has a great article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averageness
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MeanCactus
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#54 Post by MeanCactus »

I'm definitely excited for the changes in aesthetic appearance down the road. I'm also a little wary of the way people I've known for a long time will perceive me. If a girl I've known forever all of a sudden picks up interest in me - is it really because of genuine interest or because I look better? I have a feeling I'm going to burn a lot of bridges after jaw surgery.

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#55 Post by revolutionary »

:lol:
- Alison

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Heather
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#56 Post by Heather »

What a pleasant thread. :roll:

Insulting people and scaring those who haven't been through surgery yet, by saying it is equivelent of ' a car-crash' and 'electric lightbulb shock' Well that's just great, thanks for the confidence boost...some people are already scared to death, including me.

Josh'smom
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#57 Post by Josh'smom »

For our son, it is for better function: to help with the sleep apnea, being able to chew with his mouth closed (he cannot at present), and generally being able to eat something that requires him to chew.

Also, since at rest his mouth is always hanging open because he cannot easily put his lips together, it is for aesthetic reasons. It makes him look "low functioning" because his mouth does not stay closed without great effort!

crazybeautiful
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#58 Post by crazybeautiful »

LAJaw wrote:
why do people usually get attractive after surgery
Attractiveness is very subjective, but there have been scientific studies that try to quantify what makes a person "attractive." One leading area of study is that "attractiveness" is directly related to "averageness" - that is attractive features are the most average ones.

This theory had a rather amusing start. A social scientist was trying to figure out if criminals all had a certain "look", so he took a bunch of pictures of convicted criminals and merged them together. He didn't find any common facial features for criminals, but instead he found that the composite pictures were more attractive than the individual pictures.

Further studies took photos of many different faces and merged them together, so that the resulting composite face averaged together all the independent facial features. They found that the more pictures used to create the composite, the higher the rated attractiveness - in other words, the more "average" the face, the more attractive it was.

Many of us seeking surgery have poorly positioned jaws because they are too large/small/forward/recessed/high/low/unbalanced/etc. But "too <insert description>" compared to what? Why to the average! Hence when we have surgery, it corrects our jaw to a more "average" position, and with more average jaw, we appear more attractive.

For more about the theory of "averageness", Wikipedia has a great article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averageness

This is an excellent point. The surgery simply changes your jaws from an abnormal relationship to one that is normal; therefore by default our facial balance will be more 'normal'. This surgery doesn't make people beautiful, it makes people average in the sense that their faces look how they always should have looked.


To get this type of surgery only in order to become attractive is different from getting the surgery to improve function and to look normal, due to disliking how you look because of your bite.
~SARME, Nov 2007. 10mm expansion

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Kirish
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#59 Post by Kirish »

crazybeautiful wrote: This is an excellent point. The surgery simply changes your jaws from an abnormal relationship to one that is normal; therefore by default our facial balance will be more 'normal'. This surgery doesn't make people beautiful, it makes people average in the sense that their faces look how they always should have looked.


To get this type of surgery only in order to become attractive is different from getting the surgery to improve function and to look normal, due to disliking how you look because of your bite.
Crazybeautiful,

1. Normal is more attractive than abnormal.

2. Can you show me a good looking person with underbite/overbite ?

3. Was there ever a TV/Hollywood actor (male or female) with underbite/overbite ?
Noam.

crazybeautiful
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#60 Post by crazybeautiful »

I don't deny that surgery improves people's appearances, but my point is that this isn't the same thing as making someone beautiful or attractive. You are nothing more after surgery than simply having a features that are more normal. And because normality is better than abnormality, then by default you will look better. It's because of this that I diasgree with you, not in spite of it.


Surgery gives you normality, nothing more. Put it another way: does jaw surgery correct ugliness or jaws?


PS- Charlotte Gainbourg has a pronounced chin and jaw, certainly
~SARME, Nov 2007. 10mm expansion

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My blog: http://crazybeautifulsurgery.blogspot.com/

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