why do people usually get attractive after surgery

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#31 Post by **Audra** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:56 am

I never said I "didn't care" how I would look. I said I didn't do it for aesthetic reasons. Two completely different things.

#32 Post by **Kirish** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:13 am

Audra wrote:I never said I "didn't care" how I would look. I said I didn't do it for aesthetic reasons. Two completely different things.

I'm refering to what you said here:

I had this surgery to improve my bite. Whatever aesthetic outcome I achieved was a bonus, so I didn't need to see a prediction.

The logical interpretation of what you said is that you didn't care enough about how you'll look after surgery. You thought of enhanced facial aesthetics just as an optional bonus, otherwise you would have wished to see a prediction (or at least that your surgeon will see a prediction in order to make sure he's maximizing the aesthetic potential of this surgery).

#33 Post by **Audra** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:15 am

Don't you have anything better to do?

#34 Post by **Kirish** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:22 am

Audra wrote:Don't you have anything better to do?

Yes, there are other threads awaiting my reply, but for now I seem to handle posting here and there simultaniously.

#35 Post by **crazybeautiful** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:28 pm

The general thing is that aesthetics are just a by-product of the overall problem.

I highly doubt people are driven to get maxillofacial surgery as if it were plastic surgery, rather, they needed the treatment to improve the function of their bites, improve breathing, relieve TMJ, etc
- yet I wished that I could look normal. Not 'beautiful' or 'perfect', just 'normal'. Some people may conisder themselves quite ugly pre-surgery (myself included), but there is no drive to better oneself, just to get on par with some sense of normal facial balance. You don't come out beautiful, just changed. And often that change will be for the better, for the simple fact that your features pre-surgery were abnormal (as in not balanced, not disfigured

)

#36 Post by **Kirish** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:48 pm

crazybeautiful wrote:...You don't come out beautiful, just changed. And often that change will be for the better, for the simple fact that your features pre-surgery were abnormal (as in not balanced, not disfigured )

Well, maybe someone "beautiful" is someone without abnormalities (In fact some scientists came to a conclusion that the most beautiful human face has average features in any part of the face. This is called the "averageness hypothesis").

In any case, crazybeautiful, let me make it simple: if I saw you at the bar as you look now, I would have offered you a drink (not sure if you would have accepted, since I'm pre surgery myself

). This wouldn't have happened prior your surgery. Now, if it ended at the bar then great, but in reality it doesn't end there. We are the products of a shallow society.

#37 Post by **Audra** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:08 pm

Kirish wrote:In any case, crazybeautiful, let me make it simple: if I saw you at the bar as you look now, I would have offered you a drink (not sure if you would have accepted, since I'm pre surgery myself ). This wouldn't have happened prior your surgery. Now, if it ended at the bar then great, but in reality it doesn't end there. We are the products of a shallow society.

Did you really just tell her that she was not attractive enough before surgery for you to hit on her? Wow. Just wow.

#38 Post by **Kirish** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:41 pm

Audra wrote:
Kirish wrote:In any case, crazybeautiful, let me make it simple: if I saw you at the bar as you look now, I would have offered you a drink (not sure if you would have accepted, since I'm pre surgery myself ). This wouldn't have happened prior your surgery. Now, if it ended at the bar then great, but in reality it doesn't end there. We are the products of a shallow society.
Did you really just tell her that she was not attractive enough before surgery for you to hit on her? Wow. Just wow.

Yes Audra, that's what I said (she's post-op so I didn't see a problem). Still, the pics she chose to put as "before"s (beginning of her blog) put direct emphasis on her underbite (that's the point with such a blog though) and she probably could have taken much better ones from a different angle and expression.

It could be that I've grown to hate my underbite so much that I have a sensitivity for that of others too.

In any case, Audra, what's the point hypocrisy ? I'm sure that everyone mentioned in this thread (Revolutionary, Descantus, Crazybeatiful, etc.) will be approached much more by the other sex (whether they like it or not) now that they corrected such a facial abnormality.

#39 Post by **moonpie** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:02 pm

If I was assured that my misaligned jaws could forever act as some kind of shallow man deterrent, well maybe I would forgo surgery and sacrifice good mastication ability so that only the really good ones came my way.

I'm being tongue-in-cheek--I really can't wait for my teeth to touch, and nothing, not even the threat of more bad pick-up lines will stop me!

I'm being silly, must be pre-surgery nerves. My point is that I know from experience that, personally speaking, my dream partner would approach me at the bar no matter how crooked my jaw.

I am more addicted to orthoblogs than ever since my surgery date grows very near (one week and counting!). I have never had major surgery so I enjoy all the details and puffy-faced photos of those sharing their knowledge. CrazyBeautiful, I just discovered your blog and find it very helpful and enjoyable. I think it would make me uncomfortable if strangers were commenting on my appearance, but I feel terribly compelled to note that you were really a lovely-looking girl before surgery, and just as lovely after. The difference I see is that, as with most blogs I have read, the patient's jaw appears infinitely more 'comfortable' and usable after surgery. Not more beautiful/attractive/what have you, just seemingly more natural, imho. Does that make any sense? I bet you can chew well, and I'm envious. I hope you don't mind me commenting in this way, but I wanted to give you my perspective. I know we are our own harshest critics, and it can be difficult to see ourselves clearly. So although I didn't exactly scrutinize any of your photos, it appears that you have always been quite attractive. OK, enough touchy-feely posts from me. Thanks everyone!

#40 Post by **Kirish** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:33 pm

moonpie wrote: I think it would make me uncomfortable if strangers were commenting on my appearance, but I feel terribly compelled to note that you were really a lovely-looking girl before surgery, and just as lovely after.

According to this comment one might think her surgery failed to give her any meaningful enhancement of facial appearance.

Maybe it's the difference between guys and girls, but I would really be excited if post-op, girls will comment how better I look than before surgery, and I will be devestated to hear that I looked lovely before and as lovely after (which means it was all for nothing).

#41 Post by **moonpie** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:09 pm

I just meant that some people are already nice-looking before surgery, and that essential loveliness is retained post-surgery. That doesn't mean, of course, that our faces don't change. There better be a change, as a surgical saw is literally going to be used on my jaw and I'm paying good money to have my bite fixed!

In my case, that change means that my teeth should touch. I guess I just don't think of this change in terms of whether one is more attractive or not. I always thought of it as getting to neutral and making one's mouth the way it would if our jaws had grown in relatively straight. Before I started reading stuff online, I actually had no idea that aesthetics played such a big role in some people's decision-making process. My ortho and dentist made it sound so scary and medically necessary to make my jaws meet correctly. No judgments here, I'm just pointing out my ignorance that I didn't know much about orthognathic surgery or the many reasons people decide to go on this weird adventure. Anyway, I'm sure you will get positive feedback post-surgery. It seems like most people do.

#42 Post by **HokieTay** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:42 pm

Audra wrote:
Kirish wrote:In any case, crazybeautiful, let me make it simple: if I saw you at the bar as you look now, I would have offered you a drink (not sure if you would have accepted, since I'm pre surgery myself ). This wouldn't have happened prior your surgery. Now, if it ended at the bar then great, but in reality it doesn't end there. We are the products of a shallow society.
Did you really just tell her that she was not attractive enough before surgery for you to hit on her? Wow. Just wow.

I have to agree with Audra. After reading through this thread, there is something wrong with you Kirish. Perhaps the disdain you have for yourself is manifesting into saying things like this! It's just rude.

#43 Post by **Kirish** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:49 am

HokieTay wrote:
Audra wrote:
Kirish wrote:In any case, crazybeautiful, let me make it simple: if I saw you at the bar as you look now, I would have offered you a drink (not sure if you would have accepted, since I'm pre surgery myself ). This wouldn't have happened prior your surgery. Now, if it ended at the bar then great, but in reality it doesn't end there. We are the products of a shallow society.
Did you really just tell her that she was not attractive enough before surgery for you to hit on her? Wow. Just wow.
I have to agree with Audra. After reading through this thread, there is something wrong with you Kirish. Perhaps the disdain you have for yourself is manifesting into saying things like this! It's just rude.

To make things clear: I admire the courage of crazybeautiful to go through this surgery to fix her underbite. I admire her results and think that she looks lovely now. I pointed out that prior surgery I found her underbite unattractive (like I find mine's). So freaking what ???, are we living in the past ?, NEWS FLASH: crazybeautiful done her surgery and has a lovely face, her underbite is gone. How can you offend something that does not exist anymore ?

It's like looking at childhood pictures of someone and pointing out how he looked funny as a child, in comparison to how great he looks now. Or telling someone how a haircut he used at the past made him look unattractive, and that his current haircut makes him look extremely attractive. All these examples have the same notion: the person looks great now, but didn't look great in the past. Since we are living at the present and not at the past, what's the point of agonizing ?

#44 Post by **joebraces** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:29 am

People look "healthy" when they have a genetically well structured appearance. That's my assumption.

#45 Post by **crazybeautiful** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:26 am

Well I didn't want to become 'exhibit A' in this thread particularly, but I'll comment anyway.

I was always uncertain about posting photos of myself on my blog, for the fact that they were never meant to highlight my looks, just the extent of my underbite, and what the surgery did to change it. However I was also uncertain because I had very low self-esteem and didn't want any comments about my looks.

Kirish- your comment didn't offend me, but it upset me. Why? Because it brought back all the feelings I used to feel. I don't know how much of my blog people have read, but this particular post is what I'm being forced to remember now, and why I'm upset again now:

http://crazybeautifulsurgery.blogspot.c ... night.html

Since you hate your underbite so much, I would have thought you would have the knowledge to consider what a comment like that would do. I'm not happy that I am now suddenly attractive to you, because it has nothing to do with anything. I wholly agree with moonpie that:

The difference I see is that, as with most blogs I have read, the patient's jaw appears infinitely more 'comfortable' and usable after surgery. Not more beautiful/attractive/what have you, just seemingly more natural, imho

All the surgery does is take away the malocclusion, it does not 'enhance' or 'improve' like some plastic surgery of a page 3 girl who wants her C cups turning into a DD. A malocclusion, depending on its severity, is obviously going to affect your appearance, but getting rid of it does not make someone more beautiful, it just gives them a more balanced face, which by definition will be somewhat better because it is 'normal', not 'abnormal'.

Am I happy with how I look now? Yes, but I am not 'beautiful', and I never wanted to be. I just wanted to look normal, and I do.

I got my surgery on the NHS (ie, free) because of the severity of my case. If you want this surgery just because you want to look pretty, then you would not get your surgery done on the NHS here. An important thing for me was always that it was easy to forget about my functional issues because you just live with it, and cope, but you cannot escape how you think about yourself, so this becomes a preoccupation. But it was never the reason for the surgery. And my self-esteem is personal to me, not about how attractive I wish to be to be able to be hit on