DAY 3 Post-Op- *pics and updates* (upper/lower/genio)

[kate0310]

Day 23

There has been so much good and positive news in the Oral Surgery boards lately, I hate to be the negative one here...but...

2 Days ago I saw my orthodontist and she seemed pretty happy with how my teeth looked (not quite the reaction I was looking for but she can be a b**ch sometimes, so i let it slide). I had my surgical wires taken off, one loose bracket fixed, and a button put on for elastics. Having new wires and bands put on...is quite the experience when you are 3wks post op....
They have me wearing one guiding elastic now (my first one!), and will add more when I can open my mouth wider to get more in. Right now my range of motion is 14mm (supposed to be 40 by the end), so I have to work on stretching my jaw to get that better.
So the night after that longggg appointment...was brutal to say the least. My teeth ached, my face ached....but by the next morning it was not so bad. BUT THEN... (drumroll...)
Last night I woke up in the middle of the night with extreme pain on the right side of my face. It is currently 6:40am, and I have been rolling around in bed for a good 3 hours trying to withstand the pain. It is the most pain I have had this ENTIRE time...I just took my last torodol....and I don't even want to stand up because it hurts so much I feel like I could faint. I am a bad pain describer, but its like a constant sharp pain/ache/intense earache/......so the surgeon is getting a call once it hits a reasonable time of day.
To be honest, pain is always worse when it is a mystery because the "What If's" scare the crap out of me. If he tells me it is normal to have this, I will be much much better at toughing it out.

So as always I will keep you posted on the outcome of this one...but 3 weeks into this I was hoping the worst would be over. Days 18-23 have been very very achy. I took week 2 for granted.

[Yarr]

kate, I am sorry you are experiencing these problems lately. I had almost the same kind of pain you are describing in week 1/week 2. I just had a headache and the pain in the ass earache at the same time. Painkillers did not really help much. If you feel like you have the strength, you should really try to walk it off. It was the only thing that helped me. For a couple nights I used to just take a walk even if it was after midnight. The combination of fresh air and motion seemed to do the trick. Then It was a race to fall asleep again before the pain hit in.

I am not sure what is causing the pain, but I am not sure if your orhto should have gone to work on you this early. My ortho decided to wait 3 more weeks. And I feel really good. No pain what so ever for almost 2 weeks. I also managed to punch myself in my right lover jaw the other day when I was putting on my jacket. It did not even hurt that much. I was just standing there waiting and thinking, ohmy... here comes the pain... but nothing. I am not saying that your ortho has done anything wrong because they all have different ways of doing things. My ortho said he wanted to wait some more to avoid to cause me any pain. Actually I was hoping he would have done stuff, because I just want this to be over as soon as possible.

There has not been much change with my recovery. The last 10% of the swelling seem sto take forever. Talking ability has improved a good deal though. I should really be heading to Oslo to resume my studies, but my mom makes the best food so I really dont want to leave. Then I have to make my own food, so I would probobly starve.

Just hang in there kate, I really think that the pain is a very temporary thing. You will prolly be ut and doing your thang' in no time!

[anabel]

I hope the rest of the day has gone better for you. I'd be surprised if that pain weren't muscle tension. I know what you mean about fear of the unknown making it worse. My ortho also went to work early after surgery on mine, for which I was grateful, but it was tough to go through. Sat in my car and cried after the appointment.

It will get better, though, I swear.

[nvcarissa]

The pain you are describing sounds a lot like what I went through. Weeks of no pain and then suddenly waking up in the middle of the night with searing pain up into my scalp. Turns out it was muscle pain as I was clenching very very hard while asleep. This is very common as your jaw is getting used to its new position. My OS gave me a prescription for valium to take every night before bed and that helped a lot.

[kate0310]

I think you guys are right about muscle pain. I never got to speak to my surgeon, we played a days worth of phone tag so I had to stick to my extra strength advil, but i've been doing OK with it.
I am no longer worried that something has gone terribly wrong or infection because the pain does not stay in one spot, nor does it stay to be the same type of pain constantly. When it gets bad, its BAD..but it seems to switch sides or go from an ache to sharp pain etc...
THe inside of mouth my also feels like a painful war zone from incision areas and my mouth getting torn apart from the braces.

I am going to the health food store in a second to pick up some Bromelain and Arnica pills to try and speed up my de-swelling. I have been putting Arnica cream on my cheeks since the very start, but the pills might work differently.

Smoothie of the Day: Milk, Banana, Peanut Butter, Honey, Soy Powder.
....it was amazing because I had a peanut craving.

Thanks for all your encouraging words as always! It certainly helps!!!!

[anabel]

I hope you're getting some salt water in there--I had the greatest thingy that was really supposed to be a sinus rinser-outer but worked wonderfully as a mouth rinser. REALLY helps with the "war zone" mouth. That and tons and tons of wax of course.

[kate0310]

FYI everyone- went to the healthfood store today and two homeopathic remedies were highly reccommended-
1. "Arnica Montana"- which there has already been much mention of on the boards and is for sore muscles/bruising/swelling
2. "Hyperlcum Perforatum"- said to be even better than Bromelain... and is for swelling and pain

So I have started both today and I will let you all know if I can feel/see a difference tommorow.

Ill try and get a pic up too! I think I'm due for one.
I have taken lots of advil today- to the point where I almost threw up from nausea and had to take some gravol- but the pain is less frequent and not as long lasting so Its bearable now and thats all that matters.

Had the most amaaaazing soup for dinner- carrot, ginger, cashew! Best one yet =)

[Brandyleigh35]

Hey Kate,
Not to be nit picky, but arnica montana is for bruising and swelling. It is often recommended by plastic surgeons in combination with Bromelain to reduce inflammation and swelling. It has little to do with muscular and bone development.

The brand I'm taking comes in a combo pack. It is actually a pretty sweet set up. It comes with an AM and PM dosages of high potency vitamins and minerals (all the stuff you really need prior to orthognathic surgery) to basically load your system with nutritients it can store ahead of time. It then comes with a separate bottle of bromelain and arnica montana sublingual (under the tongue) pellets to take, for 4 weeks post surgery. This is what the box says about the arnica and bromelain.

Among the most popular medicines in homeopathy, Arnica Montana is a natural and safe homeopathic remedy that is frequently taken in oral pill or cream form. Grown in mountain regions, this homeopathic herb not only helps reduce bruising and swelling but also promotes healing and lessens post-operative pain and discomfort. Because Arnica Montana is a natural, safe remedy, it is known for having virtually no contraindications, no drug interactions, and no side effects.

Bromelain is a natural, safe proteolytic enzyme (an enzyme that helps in the digestion of protein) that is extracted from the root of the pineapple stem and is beneficial for reducing post-operative swelling, treating tissue injury, lessening postoperative pain, and helping accelerate healing. Bromelain inhibits prostaglandins that cause inflammation (swelling). By slowing down prostaglandins, Bromelain promotes the formation of anti-inflammatory prostaglandins that lead to less swelling. Bromelain works almost exactly like Motrin, Naprosyn, Voltaren, Clinoril and many other drugs of the kind, but it is far safer and milder because it is natural and it does not have the side effects of prescription medicines that are considered negative for the healing journey. In addition to helping reduce swelling, Bromelain can lessen postoperative pain, and help accelerate the overall healing process. This product also includes Quercetin, which helps enhance the healing effects of Bromelain. Quercetin inhibits the release of histamine and further helps in reducing swelling. Quercetin is a plant pigment found in large amounts in foods such as onions and apples.

I just didn't want others to be confused about its usage. This is basically the same info my doctor gave me about it also.

Brandy

[kate0310]

Brandy- good info!
I apologize I read the wrong pamplet for what I said arnica was for- that was for a different vitamin.

Everyone said I looked better today after starting on the hypericum perforatum...so hopefully it will keep doing its 'thang'.

[Brandyleigh35]

Kate,
Just another FYI. What you are taking is more commonly called St. John's Wort. The info regarding it is below. Personally, I think you might want to get the bromelain especially if you are taking it for swelling. Bromelain addresses inflammation. St. John's Wort is really not for that at all. It is most commonly used to treat mood issues, but not inflamation.

Introduction

This fact sheet provides basic information about the herb St. John's wort--common names, uses, potential side effects, and resources for more information. St. John's wort is a plant with yellow flowers.

Common Names--St. John's wort, hypericum, Klamath weed, goat weed

Latin Name--Hypericum perforatum

Top
What It Is Used For

* St. John's wort has been used for centuries to treat mental disorders and nerve pain.
* In ancient times, herbalists wrote about its use as a sedative and a treatment for malaria, as well as a balm for wounds, burns, and insect bites.
* Today, St. John's wort is used by some for depression, anxiety, and/or sleep disorders.

How It Is Used

The flowering tops of St. John's wort are used to prepare teas and tablets containing concentrated extracts.

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What the Science Says

* There is some scientific evidence that St. John's wort is useful for treating mild to moderate depression. However, two large studies, one sponsored by NCCAM, showed that the herb was no more effective than placebo in treating major depression of moderate severity.
* NCCAM is studying the use of St. John's wort in a wider spectrum of mood disorders, including minor depression.

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Side Effects and Cautions

* St. John's wort may cause increased sensitivity to sunlight. Other side effects can include anxiety, dry mouth, dizziness, gastrointestinal symptoms, fatigue, headache, or sexual dysfunction.
* Research shows that St. John's wort interacts with some drugs. The herb affects the way the body processes or breaks down many drugs; in some cases, it may speed or slow a drug's breakdown. Drugs that can be affected include:
o Indinavir and possibly other drugs used to control HIV infection
o Irinotecan and possibly other drugs used to treat cancer
o Cyclosporine, which prevents the body from rejecting transplanted organs
o Digoxin, which strengthens heart muscle contractions
o Warfarin and related anticoagulants
o Birth control pills
o Antidepressants
* When combined with certain antidepressants, St. John's wort may increase side effects such as nausea, anxiety, headache, and confusion.
* St. John's wort is not a proven therapy for depression. If depression is not adequately treated, it can become severe. Anyone who may have depression should see a health care provider. There are effective proven therapies available.
* It is important to inform your health care providers about any herb or dietary supplement you are using, including St. John's wort. This helps to ensure safe and coordinated care.

Hope this helps some! Just don't want you taking something that is not really going to help you.

Brandy

[kate0310]

Yea I went to my homepathic lady to get some Bromelein...and she gave me this instead saying it will work better....?
She's always been awesome for homeopathic stuff since I've been seeing her so she had my convinced. I guess I will go somewhere else for a second opinion- but in the one day and one night I've used it my swelling has gone down more than in the whole week prior and I have a lot more movement in my face.

You're right though- I should check it out and a second opinion never hurts.

[Brandyleigh35]

Maybe your swelling is just coming down on its own now and it seems like it is helping. I mean I'm certainly not an expert or anything, but I just don't see how it could be helping, I would most certainly get a second opinion as I have never heard of this being used this way. Glad your swelling is coming down though....how many days post op are you now?

Brandy

[jjames]

Kate,
I don't post near enough, rather I lurk and mainly just read, but I just wanted to say way to hang in there! And this thread concerning herbal supplements has been GREAT. The information from you and Brandy has been enlightening as I take a keen interest in exchanges about herbal medicine. I'm wondering if the St. Johns Wort might not be working so well for you because it allows you to relax your mental state, thus relaxing the jaw muscles and allowing the normal healing process to kick in and work a little more smoothly?? Hmmmm... Or maybe your homeopathic advisor is just the shizznit and knows exactly what you need? But the bottom line is whatever works for you - works. But I completely see why Brandy says St. John's Wort isn't normally used for swelling, because I would go with that thought as well. SO are you taking a derivative of pineapple (is that the Bromelain?), are you drinking plain pineapple juice to help with swelling as well? Does the juice even help or is that just a myth?
Happy healing, Kate!!!

Jen
Braced: 6/5/06
Lower Jaw Surgery: Tentatively, August
Braces Off: June of 08???

[Brandyleigh35]

JJames,
Bromelain is a supplement that comes from the root of the pineapple. It is a much higher concentration and my doctor told me that it would be really hard to drink enough pineapple juice to equal what is in the pills. The amount is just not enough....she said you would have to be drinking gallons of it a day.

I agree with what you said, regarding the St. Johns Wort possibly relaxing Kate and helping her that way. It could just be time for the swelling to start coming down on its own though, or there is also the fact that she believes it is working that could be causing things to happen. The mind is very powerful tool and plays a key role in recovery. It is just hard to know what is making the actual change though, and since this supplement is not really recommended for that purpose I find it a bit surprising that she is seeing results. However, it can definitely play a role in ones mental health and as far as I'm concerned anything that helps with that during this process has got to be beneficial, and I'm just glad she is seeing some benefit out of it, even it it seems unusual.

Brandy

[kate0310]

jjames- i'm glad youve found all the posts in this thread informative!! have you had surgery, or are you playing the waiting game?

brandy- I really do appreciate you contributing your thoughts on all this stuff- your a little fountain of knowledge!!! you have some good points about the mental aspects too, who knows what force is at work..?

went to the library today to try and find out more (my curiosity got the best of me) and I found the following:

St. John's wort has been used for centuries to reduce inflammation and to stimulate the immune system. Ointments containing the herb have been valuable tools for medics on the fields of battle until this century, when they were replaced by synthetic drugs. It appears that the flavonoid component in the herb is the main anti-inflammatory agent, although others contribute to its immune-enhancing activity. Russian researchers recently discovered that this complex herb contains substances that both stimulate and suppress immunity. This allows St. John's wort to boost the ability of the immune system to fight infection, while at the same time decreasing the immune processes that promote inflammation in wounds and other injuries

that was Excerpted from St. John’s Wort: Nature’s Blues Buster
Published by Avery Publishing Group.

Today I had my first GOOD day- went shopping and saw some of my best girlfriends and went for coffee, and laughed a TON and enjoyed some of my first pain free hours.
Of course around 8pm the pain came back and has been driving me nuts for the past 2 hours, but that's fine because I had a good day so it cant ruin my mood.
Oh- my doctor also called to confirm that I was only taking painkillers when they were necessary because after this much time they can start to burn a hole in your stomach....FYI for anyone having surgery in the future.
I take the pain killers when absolultely necessary and try to tough it out when I can- but my stomach is certainly on the fritz. When I'm done with all ths pain stuff I'm going to try a detox to clear my system of its chemical overload.