So i consulted another ortho today.
She was really against surgery, and said that my underbite could be solved just by extracting two teeth from the bottom.
My underbite is about 2mm, i feel that it's quite minute also, but somehow i can't help but feel that surgery would give better results than just mere extractions. Anyway, she sent me to see the jaw surgeon who was soooo against the surgery, and that she wouldn't do the op herself cos then she felt she'ld be doing me injustice by operating on such a minor underbite case.
In the consult with the previous ortho (a totally different hospital), he told me that my underbite could be corrected just by braces + extraction, but surgery would be the best for optimum results.. Then when i saw the jaw surgeon, he said that if i were to do surgery, it would be a lefort 1 + BSSO, with a slight rotation of the lower jaw to correct asymmetry and if i wanted nothing but the best, additional genioplasty (my chin's pretty long, vertically speaking, although the anti-surgery ortho + jaw surgeon said that my facial proportions were in order and that its good for a man to have a strong chin)
As i have jaw asymmetry and some TMJ issues (weird popping of my right jaw when i open it wide), i'm also concerned that if i just go the braces route, those won't be corrected.
So now i'm in a dilemma, i really don't know who to believe. The cost of jaw surgery is quite daunting for me.
I guess the main reason why i want surgery is cos i want my side profile to look good.
Anybody with the same experience? Edge-to-edge underbite but did surgery/braces + extraction? Would love to hear your input on my case..
It's a headache
Underbiters come in PLS!!! Serious questions!!
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If the surgeon and your ortho are against it, I would try to do it without jaw surgery. Unfortunately, I have a huge overbite, and dislocated disc's in my jaw that need to be reconstructed, and the surgery is going to be very expensive, and from what I hear is pretty painful and requiring a lot of recovery, and lingering bone plates. I am getting surgery because I cant even seal my mouth shut and cannot chew anything other than very soft food. It is not a surgery to take lightly. I am looking at about 20k cash, since insurance is so far denying to pay despite the fact that my jaw is dislocated and obviously a medical issue.
Cersecpn
If i was in your position,i would not do the surgery.You have a minor underbite,and if ortho says it can be corrected with braces,leave the surgery.I have a 12mm underbite and yet have not decided to do the surgery or not!Remember it is a major surgery...My advice is correct your underbite with braces,even if the final result will not be so good it would have been with surgery.
If i was in your position,i would not do the surgery.You have a minor underbite,and if ortho says it can be corrected with braces,leave the surgery.I have a 12mm underbite and yet have not decided to do the surgery or not!Remember it is a major surgery...My advice is correct your underbite with braces,even if the final result will not be so good it would have been with surgery.
Hi there, I had an edge-to-edge underbite and I had surgery. I was told it was the only option. My ortho said if I didn't have the surgery, there was no point in getting braces becuase my teeth would never be stable - they would shift back to where they started.
I had more problems than the underbite - I also had a crossbite and asymmetric lower jaw. I ended up having a BSSO on just one side of my lower jaw, to correct the asymmetry. It was a small movement, just a couple mm I think. On the upper jaw, I had a 3 piece lefort to widen the arch and move it forward, and it was also shortened.
I can't decide if I like my face better now. I kind of think I looked better with a stronger chin, but it is such a small difference I don't know if it is worth fretting about. From time to time I run into people I haven't seen for a while, who don't know I had surgery, and not a single person has noticed anything different about my face.
If I were you, I would get more consults. Also, there is no guarantee that surgery will solve your TMJ clicking. It's possible, but don't count on it. If you think surgery is really going to give you the best result, keep pursuing it. Get several opinions, until you are satisfied that surgery is the way to go, or not.
I had more problems than the underbite - I also had a crossbite and asymmetric lower jaw. I ended up having a BSSO on just one side of my lower jaw, to correct the asymmetry. It was a small movement, just a couple mm I think. On the upper jaw, I had a 3 piece lefort to widen the arch and move it forward, and it was also shortened.
I can't decide if I like my face better now. I kind of think I looked better with a stronger chin, but it is such a small difference I don't know if it is worth fretting about. From time to time I run into people I haven't seen for a while, who don't know I had surgery, and not a single person has noticed anything different about my face.
If I were you, I would get more consults. Also, there is no guarantee that surgery will solve your TMJ clicking. It's possible, but don't count on it. If you think surgery is really going to give you the best result, keep pursuing it. Get several opinions, until you are satisfied that surgery is the way to go, or not.
cersepn,
My two cents: avoid surgery if possible. And, it sounds like in your case that it is quite possible.
Back in June, I had a LeFort I/BSSO to correct a LARGE underbite (13 mm). I ended up with a maxillary total relapse/delayed union. So, in December my situation was a little worse off than your current one--about 5 mm off. Stupid me, I decided to have it redone instead of live with what I had. The recovery from the second surgery has been very rough.
I know people will say that I am a very rare case, and that's true. This message board contains, however, all sorts of evidence that a variety of complications (most of them not life-threatening) can happen.
If you can avoid being operated on, why not save yourself the pain? Truth be known, after the second surgery now, I am 1-2 mm off, and the orthodontist thinks that it can be corrected with elastics. There is no way I would go through another surgery, even if you held a gun to my head!
My two cents: avoid surgery if possible. And, it sounds like in your case that it is quite possible.
Back in June, I had a LeFort I/BSSO to correct a LARGE underbite (13 mm). I ended up with a maxillary total relapse/delayed union. So, in December my situation was a little worse off than your current one--about 5 mm off. Stupid me, I decided to have it redone instead of live with what I had. The recovery from the second surgery has been very rough.
I know people will say that I am a very rare case, and that's true. This message board contains, however, all sorts of evidence that a variety of complications (most of them not life-threatening) can happen.
If you can avoid being operated on, why not save yourself the pain? Truth be known, after the second surgery now, I am 1-2 mm off, and the orthodontist thinks that it can be corrected with elastics. There is no way I would go through another surgery, even if you held a gun to my head!
There are no ordinary moments.
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Have to say i agree with phil here.
tho i had an overjet, not an underbite, mine was also 13mm, and ive had alot of problems after surgery (tho by no means as bad as phils) and theres no way id have gone through this if there was any other way.
Sure its had a pleasing effect on my profile from the right side, but due to infection and an upcoming second surgery the left side looks aweful at the moment.
Sorry i cant be more positive, but thats my opinion.
tho i had an overjet, not an underbite, mine was also 13mm, and ive had alot of problems after surgery (tho by no means as bad as phils) and theres no way id have gone through this if there was any other way.
Sure its had a pleasing effect on my profile from the right side, but due to infection and an upcoming second surgery the left side looks aweful at the moment.
Sorry i cant be more positive, but thats my opinion.
Braces on 11th June 2006,~ BSSO and Wisdom tooth removal 11th February 2008,~ Plate Removal 14th May 2008,~ Braces off 28th August 2008.
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spartanfan72
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:47 am
I just had surgery 3-weeks ago to correct an underbite. Mine wasn't too major..about 5mm. I had the 3-piece LeFort I to widen my upper jaw, it was pretty narrow. The doc said they widened it as much as they could and still feel comfortable about it.
They widened it, pulled it forward and rotated it (I also had a crossbite).
My lower jaw was left alone.
I'm feeling the best I have since surgery and even now, I wouldn't go through it again given the chance. I hoping that will change once the splint comes off, the swelling goes away and the numbness is gone.
Right now I liked the looks of my old face better, but I'm hoping it looks better once the swelling is all gone. I'm still puffy in my upper cheeks right below my eyes.
I always thought my underbite was so severe that I felt like I was walking around with my chin stuck out. Now that I had the surgery, everybody I've talked to asks me why I had it, they never noticed anything wrong with me before.
Although changing my appearance wasn't why I decided on surgery. Chewing normal was my first priority. With the underbite and crossbite I was "tearing" my food with my front teeth instead of "biting through" it. Then I would only chew with one side of my back teeth due to the crossbite (only one side lined up).
It's ultimately your decision and if I were you I'd get no less than 3 opinions from Oral Surgeons. Take what they say and weigh the pros & cons and make your choice.
They widened it, pulled it forward and rotated it (I also had a crossbite).
My lower jaw was left alone.
I'm feeling the best I have since surgery and even now, I wouldn't go through it again given the chance. I hoping that will change once the splint comes off, the swelling goes away and the numbness is gone.
Right now I liked the looks of my old face better, but I'm hoping it looks better once the swelling is all gone. I'm still puffy in my upper cheeks right below my eyes.
I always thought my underbite was so severe that I felt like I was walking around with my chin stuck out. Now that I had the surgery, everybody I've talked to asks me why I had it, they never noticed anything wrong with me before.
Although changing my appearance wasn't why I decided on surgery. Chewing normal was my first priority. With the underbite and crossbite I was "tearing" my food with my front teeth instead of "biting through" it. Then I would only chew with one side of my back teeth due to the crossbite (only one side lined up).
It's ultimately your decision and if I were you I'd get no less than 3 opinions from Oral Surgeons. Take what they say and weigh the pros & cons and make your choice.
I had a relatively minor underbite before braces, not sure of the distance to be honest but here's a picture of me the night before I got the braces on if you want to compare it to your's.
Like others have said, until I pointed the problem out to people, they never noticed it. I also liked my pronounced jaw line. And I also had minor clicking in the jaw.
I was told for years by numerous dentists and numerous orthos that the only way to correct my underbite was with surgery. Had I been told that it could be corrected without surgery I definitely would've chosen that route at the time. Before I had committed to doing it, the thought of the surgery terrified me.
Looking back now post-op (4 months today) I'm glad I opted for the surgery because had I gone the direction you're describing, I think my chin would've been way too small. The advantage of having an upper and lower done is that the surgeon can move everything together and fit it precisely to your skull and give you the best resulting appearance.
Keep in mind your case might be much different, but in my case, I think I would've looked funny and I would've been unhappy with simply moving my teeth back to fit into my top.
For what its worth, I had a friend of mine participating in the surgery and she said that after they moved my jaws and fit everything together, it was clear I needed the genio because my chin indeed was too small and I no longer looked like myself.
Anyway, more details then you want probably but that's my three cents. The surgery is a nightmare, avoid it at all costs unless you feel its necessary. Trust your gut feeling in addition to what the doctors tell you, dont just do what they say.
There are before and after photos here in the 'Photos' section if you want to see the difference in my profile. (I'll take some "4-month" photos tonight and add those to the list because I think I've lost even more swelling over the last couple months.) You'll notice my jaw is clearly smaller but its still pronounced and I still look the same to people who know me. Like others have said, above when I see people who don't know I had surgery they recognize me and don't realize anything is different. I'm very happy with my new bite and new profile.
Oh, and FYI, the clicking got worse after surgery. Much worse. I was told by everyone it would improve but it didn't. I would gladly take back the clicking problem prior to surgery as I now realize it was nothing and I easily could've dealt with it the rest of my life. So don't opt for the surgery just to fix the clicking.
EDIT: Also something to consider... if you go the braces route, your bite will probably start to improve from the moment the braces are put on. Whereas, if you opt for the surgery, your underbite will worsen and likely get pretty bad up to the point of surgery.
Like others have said, until I pointed the problem out to people, they never noticed it. I also liked my pronounced jaw line. And I also had minor clicking in the jaw.
I was told for years by numerous dentists and numerous orthos that the only way to correct my underbite was with surgery. Had I been told that it could be corrected without surgery I definitely would've chosen that route at the time. Before I had committed to doing it, the thought of the surgery terrified me.
Looking back now post-op (4 months today) I'm glad I opted for the surgery because had I gone the direction you're describing, I think my chin would've been way too small. The advantage of having an upper and lower done is that the surgeon can move everything together and fit it precisely to your skull and give you the best resulting appearance.
Keep in mind your case might be much different, but in my case, I think I would've looked funny and I would've been unhappy with simply moving my teeth back to fit into my top.
For what its worth, I had a friend of mine participating in the surgery and she said that after they moved my jaws and fit everything together, it was clear I needed the genio because my chin indeed was too small and I no longer looked like myself.
Anyway, more details then you want probably but that's my three cents. The surgery is a nightmare, avoid it at all costs unless you feel its necessary. Trust your gut feeling in addition to what the doctors tell you, dont just do what they say.
There are before and after photos here in the 'Photos' section if you want to see the difference in my profile. (I'll take some "4-month" photos tonight and add those to the list because I think I've lost even more swelling over the last couple months.) You'll notice my jaw is clearly smaller but its still pronounced and I still look the same to people who know me. Like others have said, above when I see people who don't know I had surgery they recognize me and don't realize anything is different. I'm very happy with my new bite and new profile.
Oh, and FYI, the clicking got worse after surgery. Much worse. I was told by everyone it would improve but it didn't. I would gladly take back the clicking problem prior to surgery as I now realize it was nothing and I easily could've dealt with it the rest of my life. So don't opt for the surgery just to fix the clicking.
EDIT: Also something to consider... if you go the braces route, your bite will probably start to improve from the moment the braces are put on. Whereas, if you opt for the surgery, your underbite will worsen and likely get pretty bad up to the point of surgery.
KarlClayLA: Thanks for your input
My underbite is quite similar to yours, really mild. And my lower chin has lots of vertical excess as well.
In fact, my side profile xray looks scaringly similar to yours.
Your results are just terrific, you look very good ^^
I feel really unsettled after seeing the anti-surgery jaw surgeon, because she is definitely not that old, probably in the practice for a maximum of 10 years? As compared to the other surgeon who's been doing Leforts and what have you for more than 30 years already.
I know that's hardly a good gauge of skill but when i stepped into the experienced surgeon's office, he didn't hesitate in telling me that i needed surgery for best results.. and i felt comfortable with what he was telling me, really gave me assurance that i was in good hands.
The worst thing is knowing how some orthos think, all they care about is the bite and as long as the bite works, they're good to go.. which is really worrying for me cos i felt that my ortho is approaching things from that angle, and as much as she says my concerns about lip incompetence are unfounded, and that the braces + extraction method will solve that, i still have the issue of mid face flatness at the back of my head.
Sigh! And of course the most important thing would be the cost of surgery.. Although it's not really that expensive in my country as compared to the states, but it's still quite a sum.
My underbite is quite similar to yours, really mild. And my lower chin has lots of vertical excess as well.
In fact, my side profile xray looks scaringly similar to yours.
Your results are just terrific, you look very good ^^
I feel really unsettled after seeing the anti-surgery jaw surgeon, because she is definitely not that old, probably in the practice for a maximum of 10 years? As compared to the other surgeon who's been doing Leforts and what have you for more than 30 years already.
I know that's hardly a good gauge of skill but when i stepped into the experienced surgeon's office, he didn't hesitate in telling me that i needed surgery for best results.. and i felt comfortable with what he was telling me, really gave me assurance that i was in good hands.
The worst thing is knowing how some orthos think, all they care about is the bite and as long as the bite works, they're good to go.. which is really worrying for me cos i felt that my ortho is approaching things from that angle, and as much as she says my concerns about lip incompetence are unfounded, and that the braces + extraction method will solve that, i still have the issue of mid face flatness at the back of my head.
Sigh! And of course the most important thing would be the cost of surgery.. Although it's not really that expensive in my country as compared to the states, but it's still quite a sum.
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spartanfan72
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:47 am
I don't have any quality before & after pics that I took, but I looked through my pics on my computer and came up with a couple.cersepn wrote:appreciate the replies so far ... keep them coming guys!
spartanfan72: mind if i have some pics of your before and after?
I found one pre-braces, pre-surgery. I also found one post braces, pre-surgery.
I just had a co-worker take a couple of pics of me just now (3-weeks post surgery).
I also had a deviated septum fixed and I just noticed (looking at the pics) that my nose is still "off". I don't know if it'll return to normal in time or not.
Click on the pics to supersize them.... first two are the ones just taken today. Third one is pre-braces (New Years Eve 2006), last one is with braces, pre-surgery.
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Then don't go with this ortho. You deserve better. My ortho is definitely concerned with the aesthetic side of things, like my profile, balance between upper and lower face, amount of teeth showing when I smile, etc etc. For example, when I was getting ready for surgery, my surgeon told me he was going to shorten my upper jaw to fix my lip incompetence. My ortho said whoa, just a minute, your teeth are pretty small, if you move them up higher, they are just going to disappear behind your upper lip. In the end, they did a compromise - I still have a bit of lip incompetence, but at least you can see teeth when I smile.The worst thing is knowing how some orthos think, all they care about is the bite and as long as the bite works, they're good to go..
These are important considerations, so make sure you are confident with the person you end up working with. And that they hear your concerns too.
Hi cersepn,
I was an edge to edge Class III with crossbite and 3-4mm bilateral open bite. My ortho was really keen for me to do surgery. I sweated on this for several weeks leading up to getting braces and decided that I just couldn't go through with surgery, so asked him to do what he could with braces alone (it helped talking through my anxiety with my regular dentist, btw, who'd made the ortho referral). I'm quite happy with the outcome.
At the end of the day, it's your call. If I can give one piece of advice, it's to find a professional with whom you'll feel comfortable with, can communicate and trust. My ortho experience was a very positive one thanks to an ortho with a great chairside manner and support staff to match.
I was an edge to edge Class III with crossbite and 3-4mm bilateral open bite. My ortho was really keen for me to do surgery. I sweated on this for several weeks leading up to getting braces and decided that I just couldn't go through with surgery, so asked him to do what he could with braces alone (it helped talking through my anxiety with my regular dentist, btw, who'd made the ortho referral). I'm quite happy with the outcome.
At the end of the day, it's your call. If I can give one piece of advice, it's to find a professional with whom you'll feel comfortable with, can communicate and trust. My ortho experience was a very positive one thanks to an ortho with a great chairside manner and support staff to match.
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iristurquoise
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 3:02 pm
I personally had the surgery last June. I had a minor underbite (3-4 mm). Initially, I was to have surgery on both my lower and upper jaw but the discrepancy was so minimal that the morning of the surgery my doctor informed me only my lower jaw would be operated on.
For me, I would do the surgery all over again if I had to. Recovery was really easy for me. I was eating pasta 3 days post-op and chewier things within the week.
The largest difference for me is my profile and the way I look straight on. My jaw was actually lopsidded , they moved it 5 mm to the left, which made a huge difference as well. Also, I was soo happy to wake up after my surgery to my front teeth overlapping the bottom because they had never been like this before. I really like the way I look now a lot better than before.
However, surgery where I live is only about 800 dollars and I was 17 when I got the surgery and probably quite resilient. Evidently, the surgery is dangerous and you are signing up for many risks if you decided to get the surgery done.
Hope I helped a little!
For me, I would do the surgery all over again if I had to. Recovery was really easy for me. I was eating pasta 3 days post-op and chewier things within the week.
The largest difference for me is my profile and the way I look straight on. My jaw was actually lopsidded , they moved it 5 mm to the left, which made a huge difference as well. Also, I was soo happy to wake up after my surgery to my front teeth overlapping the bottom because they had never been like this before. I really like the way I look now a lot better than before.
However, surgery where I live is only about 800 dollars and I was 17 when I got the surgery and probably quite resilient. Evidently, the surgery is dangerous and you are signing up for many risks if you decided to get the surgery done.
Hope I helped a little!