Hello.
I am new to this site, but basically I have know for some time that there is something not right with my jaw. I have just turned 20 and am based in the UK. My face looks like the right jaw looking longer than the left. When I open my mouth, the chin and whole face opens towards the left. My mouth seems to approach my left more even when closed and each year my face seems to be growing towards the left, with my right eye brow and eye drooping downwards. (Right eye appears bigger than left when smiling.) This seems to be getting worse year on year.
I don't have an over-bite or under-bite as far as I can see.
Symptoms: Jaw ache/pain. Feeling tension particular with right jaw. Right side headaches. Occassional right eye pain. Clicky/popping jaw. Facial assymetry. Chin & mouth wonky towards left. Even my bite/teeth are to the left, and this can be seen from my 2 front teeth not being in the centre of my mouth.
Anyway, 1 year ago I told my dentist who referred me to the maxillofacial department at the hospital. Dr. at hospital just told me to open/close and felt both sides of my jaw in front of the ears. He gave me a slint and told me this would close the gaps? I took the clear splint, as it didn't work and he didn't seem to care, I saved up for orthodontic treatment. This is my 2nd time with braces, I had the usual braces during my teenage years (14-16). I am now 2 months into private orthodontic treatment, and with no improvement in bite. This orthodontist just said that she will align my teeth? My jaw aches more than before and the assymetry is getting worser.) My right side is so uncomfortable and the tension just makes me want to whack my right side against a brick wall. I feel I am losing patience and am desperate. I have lost all confidence, and just hide away in my room pretty much all day/month/year (Apart from to attend appointments).
Basically, I am just wondering how people in the UK pursued to get the jaw surgery, and how your Dr. handled your situation. No one has taken any x-rays of me and I have heard that MRI scans are expensive, so I am not sure if Dr's are trying to avoid giving me an MRI.
I am sorry for this long post, but I am just incredibly distressed and do not know how to pursue the situation. I am just watching myself go more and more asymmetric and suffering aches (Plus, the fact that I am paying for orthodontic treatment) I don't think my age helps either, without my parents attending with me. I seem to just feel like I'm not taken seriously and tossed to the side.
A rough detail of what you went through would be helpful/time-span/anything really. Would be much appreciated
Jaw asymmetry. Help please!
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kittenmaisey
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:39 am
- Location: uk
Sorry to hear you are experiencing all this discomfort.
I, like you were braces in my early teens. Since I was 18yrs, I have experienced similar symptoms as yours.
I have been diagnosed with TMJ. I am surprised you have not had x-rays done, if you are second time in braces.
I also wear a splint. I went to a private Dentist, who also referred me to a cranial Osteopath. The reason for this is that depending on your type of splint, your joints will also need attention. hence working in conjunction with an Osteopath.
Speak to your Ortho again. Or get a second opinion fast!
I, like you were braces in my early teens. Since I was 18yrs, I have experienced similar symptoms as yours.
I have been diagnosed with TMJ. I am surprised you have not had x-rays done, if you are second time in braces.
I also wear a splint. I went to a private Dentist, who also referred me to a cranial Osteopath. The reason for this is that depending on your type of splint, your joints will also need attention. hence working in conjunction with an Osteopath.
Speak to your Ortho again. Or get a second opinion fast!
It sounds a bit odd that your orthodontist didn't take any x-rays, as that seems to be standard practice when they get a new patient. If you're paying for private treatment and not getting what you want, then you should probably start asking questions. Maybe the problems you're having are just because you're at a specific phase of treatment and once your teeth are in their final position it'll all be better, but if this is case then you should have had that explained.
The key to getting NHS treatment seems to be to keep pestering people (in a polite way) and asking for stuff - as my mum always said "if you don't ask you don't get". Then there's a lot of waiting, which is the stage I'm at at the moment. Waiting times vary hugely between regions, but from personal experience I would suggest that if your current orthodontist is going to pass you over to the NHS system, ask if they can send your models and records because this is one less appointment to wait in a queue for, and there's no point in them duplicating records that would otherwise sit in a cupboard unused.
The key to getting NHS treatment seems to be to keep pestering people (in a polite way) and asking for stuff - as my mum always said "if you don't ask you don't get". Then there's a lot of waiting, which is the stage I'm at at the moment. Waiting times vary hugely between regions, but from personal experience I would suggest that if your current orthodontist is going to pass you over to the NHS system, ask if they can send your models and records because this is one less appointment to wait in a queue for, and there's no point in them duplicating records that would otherwise sit in a cupboard unused.
The splint that was given to me (before me 2nd orthodontic braces), was a clear gum shield-like one. It was only given to me for my top set of teeth.
I also have torticollis/wry neck, which I'm not sure whether complicates matters. The 1st orthodontic treatment was free on the NHS as I had an over-bite. I had x-rays done 1st time round. However, I am now in my 2nd orthodontic treatment which I have to pay for, but no x-rays were done this time. My 2nd orthodontic treatment is done by the same orthodontic surgery/orthodontist. I thought it would be better to go back to the same one seeing as she had all my info/records from the past. It also looked like the maxillofacial Dr. at the hospital wanted to give me a splint hoping my troubles would disappear and tell me to 'go away'.
I am just wondering whether any one knows how much private medical care is i.e. BUPA in the UK, and how do I go about joining this. Is it similar to medical insurance? or is it 'pay by session', where each time you attend, you get billed? I just have no faith in this maxillofacial Dr. and if I am referred back to him and it turns out surgery may be required, would he be the surgeon?
I was referred to him by my dentist as that is where I raised my concerns. However, I am attending my GP practice this week where I will be demanding x-rays. Does the GP refer people to the maxillofacial department as well?
Apologies for all the questions
Like I said, I look more like 16/17 rather than approaching 21, so I've resorted to coming here to ask for advice.
I also have torticollis/wry neck, which I'm not sure whether complicates matters. The 1st orthodontic treatment was free on the NHS as I had an over-bite. I had x-rays done 1st time round. However, I am now in my 2nd orthodontic treatment which I have to pay for, but no x-rays were done this time. My 2nd orthodontic treatment is done by the same orthodontic surgery/orthodontist. I thought it would be better to go back to the same one seeing as she had all my info/records from the past. It also looked like the maxillofacial Dr. at the hospital wanted to give me a splint hoping my troubles would disappear and tell me to 'go away'.
I am just wondering whether any one knows how much private medical care is i.e. BUPA in the UK, and how do I go about joining this. Is it similar to medical insurance? or is it 'pay by session', where each time you attend, you get billed? I just have no faith in this maxillofacial Dr. and if I am referred back to him and it turns out surgery may be required, would he be the surgeon?
I was referred to him by my dentist as that is where I raised my concerns. However, I am attending my GP practice this week where I will be demanding x-rays. Does the GP refer people to the maxillofacial department as well?
Apologies for all the questions
Like I said, I look more like 16/17 rather than approaching 21, so I've resorted to coming here to ask for advice.-
sauerkraut
- Posts: 573
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:57 pm
- Location: Germany
Perhaps if you could say where you live (just general area) one of the Brits on here might be able to recommend a good surgeon near you. Then you could ask for a referral to that specific person. Or you could look into any teaching hospitals near you, check out their maxillofacial department and if it sounds good ask to be referred there.
I'm not sure exactly how BUPA works, but since you're already receiving orthodontic treatment I have a horrible suspicion they would regard it as a pre-existing condition and refuse coverage (possibly for ever, possibly for a certain number of years).
Anyway from what you describe, it sounds to me (in my absolutely non-expert opinion) as if you should still be pushing for NHS treatment. I know it was the case when I sought treatment in the UK many years ago, and from another discussion on here recently it sounds like it might still be the case in some areas, that dentists and orthos tend to give a standard "Oh, adult orthodontics aren't covered by the NHS" response. But if there is appropriate clinical need then adults can still be covered. The sad fact is that you'll probably have to be rather pushy. Polite, of course, but pushy -- and make sure the experts know just how this is impacting on your life.
I do hope you can get something sorted soon. All the best
I'm not sure exactly how BUPA works, but since you're already receiving orthodontic treatment I have a horrible suspicion they would regard it as a pre-existing condition and refuse coverage (possibly for ever, possibly for a certain number of years).
Anyway from what you describe, it sounds to me (in my absolutely non-expert opinion) as if you should still be pushing for NHS treatment. I know it was the case when I sought treatment in the UK many years ago, and from another discussion on here recently it sounds like it might still be the case in some areas, that dentists and orthos tend to give a standard "Oh, adult orthodontics aren't covered by the NHS" response. But if there is appropriate clinical need then adults can still be covered. The sad fact is that you'll probably have to be rather pushy. Polite, of course, but pushy -- and make sure the experts know just how this is impacting on your life.
I do hope you can get something sorted soon. All the best
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sauerkraut
- Posts: 573
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:57 pm
- Location: Germany
PS Just adding a little linky to the british orthodontic society's website, in case you haven't found it already. Quite a lot of useful info here.
http://www.bos.org.uk/orthodonticsandyo ... thenhs.htm
http://www.bos.org.uk/orthodonticsandyo ... thenhs.htm
Hello.
Thanks to everybody replying to this thread. I know that already the NHS does treat adult patients with problems considered severe. I do believe I should have got the 2nd orthodontic treatment on the NHS, however, nobody wanted to know or help my case. To speed things up before leaving the problem to go worser and worser over the years, I was left with no choice but to save up and start the 2nd orthodontic treatment - sad I know, but there really was no choice.
Now that 2nd orthodontic treatment has begun, it has come to my senses that something is really not right with the bite/top jaw/bottom jaw/facial shape etc. etc. I will upload a picture of my bite later on.
Anyway, my GP appointment is this week. Is it possible to request for an x-ray of either side of the face, or are jaw x-rays done by MRI?
Thanks to everybody replying to this thread. I know that already the NHS does treat adult patients with problems considered severe. I do believe I should have got the 2nd orthodontic treatment on the NHS, however, nobody wanted to know or help my case. To speed things up before leaving the problem to go worser and worser over the years, I was left with no choice but to save up and start the 2nd orthodontic treatment - sad I know, but there really was no choice.
Now that 2nd orthodontic treatment has begun, it has come to my senses that something is really not right with the bite/top jaw/bottom jaw/facial shape etc. etc. I will upload a picture of my bite later on.
Anyway, my GP appointment is this week. Is it possible to request for an x-ray of either side of the face, or are jaw x-rays done by MRI?
I am sorry that you are having such a time of it schnapple and that you feel soooo bad about it. I wish however that you could allow yourself to think that perhjaps other people might not see the "imperfections" as much as you think they do and let this get in the way of you being able to get out and about and interact socially.
I hope you read this in the way it is intended..... everyone is asymetrical to a greater or lesser degree so although you might be a bit more noticable ( no pics) what other people think really does not matter no matter how self conscious you feel. Having said that I know how conscious my daughter feels about her image and she is your age........ she lost most of her hair some months ago and at first avoided all contact with other people. however she did come to recognise that being a hermit was rather lonely and that if people who lost hair through chemo etc and people with burns or other "different" faces could get out and about the world so would she.
re nhs treatment
I think saffie is quite right
Despite that the first large teaching hospital in birmingham turned me down for treatment ( maybe I was not frantic enough about my problems to them , I am rather stoical
) but luckily my new nhs dentist referred me to my local non teaching hospital ........and after a year in braces I am now getting surgery in June.
so just keep explaining the physical problems you have to dentist ( I dont know if gp will refer but it wont harm to ask)
I know it makes sense to fix the problems before it gets dire but the protocols for getting adult treatment really are quite stringent ( as you have found out ) ... if its your concept of your face shape rather than the actual bite / teeth alignment / jaw shape being detrimental to teeth / gums etc then you might still have a very hard job getting nhs treatment
so just keep asking.... even over the years. ..... and try not to let it affect your social life
you dont need an mri scan btw for jaws ( well not to my knowledge for most diagnosis) I had panoramic films done ....... camera moves around you ..... as well as the ordinary x rays.
I hope you read this in the way it is intended..... everyone is asymetrical to a greater or lesser degree so although you might be a bit more noticable ( no pics) what other people think really does not matter no matter how self conscious you feel. Having said that I know how conscious my daughter feels about her image and she is your age........ she lost most of her hair some months ago and at first avoided all contact with other people. however she did come to recognise that being a hermit was rather lonely and that if people who lost hair through chemo etc and people with burns or other "different" faces could get out and about the world so would she.
re nhs treatment
I think saffie is quite right
I told various dentists over the years about my problems and had lower teeth braced when Iwas 32 (20 years ago) ...... the problems with my deep bite just kept getting worse but it was not till the bite meant an upper vrown kept coming out then abcessing that I fintally got an orthodontist referral.... and he said that my bite was so bad I'd loose all my teeth in a few years if i did not get fixed !The key to getting NHS treatment seems to be to keep pestering people (in a polite way
Despite that the first large teaching hospital in birmingham turned me down for treatment ( maybe I was not frantic enough about my problems to them , I am rather stoical
) but luckily my new nhs dentist referred me to my local non teaching hospital ........and after a year in braces I am now getting surgery in June.so just keep explaining the physical problems you have to dentist ( I dont know if gp will refer but it wont harm to ask)
I know it makes sense to fix the problems before it gets dire but the protocols for getting adult treatment really are quite stringent ( as you have found out ) ... if its your concept of your face shape rather than the actual bite / teeth alignment / jaw shape being detrimental to teeth / gums etc then you might still have a very hard job getting nhs treatment
so just keep asking.... even over the years. ..... and try not to let it affect your social life
you dont need an mri scan btw for jaws ( well not to my knowledge for most diagnosis) I had panoramic films done ....... camera moves around you ..... as well as the ordinary x rays.
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After you mentioned the panoramic camera thing, I actually remember having those x-rays done the for the 1st orthodontic treatment. I am quite disgusted frankly, that for the 2nd orthodontic treatment 'at the same orthodontic practice, by the same orthodontist' has not given me a single x-ray before beginning treatment. I am now not sure whether she could see from photos or in person that I had facial assymetry etc. and may have avoided telling me more so that she could continue treatment and bill me for it???
You have stated, "the first large teaching hospital in birmingham turned me down for treatment". Can they do this? even if you are willing to wait?
I am just trying to search on the internet 'UK's best maxillofacial/orthognathic treatment hospitals', because I wanted to be referred and be able to pick where I wanted treatment? Preferably by the best surgeon if possible. Can you be turned away for not being 'severe' enough? Because I would be willing to wait, as long as I didn't have a botch job done. Obviously it is human nature to want the best possible treatment.
The maxillofacial Dr. who I was referred to by my dentist, was at my local small town hospital. If anybody in the UK has had successful treatment, then please do say where (Which hospital, Dr. etc.), because I am willing to commute
You have stated, "the first large teaching hospital in birmingham turned me down for treatment". Can they do this? even if you are willing to wait?
I am just trying to search on the internet 'UK's best maxillofacial/orthognathic treatment hospitals', because I wanted to be referred and be able to pick where I wanted treatment? Preferably by the best surgeon if possible. Can you be turned away for not being 'severe' enough? Because I would be willing to wait, as long as I didn't have a botch job done. Obviously it is human nature to want the best possible treatment.
The maxillofacial Dr. who I was referred to by my dentist, was at my local small town hospital. If anybody in the UK has had successful treatment, then please do say where (Which hospital, Dr. etc.), because I am willing to commute
yes there are certain criteria ......... but then again it is the interpretation of that criteria that can vary a just like opinions vary form surgeon to surgeon.Can you be turned away for not being 'severe' enough?
I think once its agreed by a consultant that you DO need treatment then I think is the time one can actually "go shopping" to chose which hopsital does the treament because I think the trust in the aare you live foots the bill ... of course I could be wrong cause things change.
I was kinda guaranteed to get the treament in my local hopsital once in a way bacuse the independant consult that reccomeneded the treatment was needed and advised try first at birmingham. ....is the consultant at the local hospital
i dont know if he does private
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I had my braces at Crewe hospital and my brilliant surgeon works out of Chester and Liverpool hospitals if that is any help. I was treated on the NHS
With regards your jaw problems you need to make a stand and explain the pain is terrible and you can't cope with it and the way your jaw is. I would either mention it to your ortho or make an appointment with your dentist who should refer you. Most orthodontists work in conjuction with maxillo facial surgeons but I suppose it depends when you next appointment is with the ortho and if you want to wait. Personally I would go to the dentist asap. The last maxillo treatment has obviously not worked and you need something else sorting out. Take someone with you, your mum perhaps? who can back you up on how all this is affecting you.
Polly x
With regards your jaw problems you need to make a stand and explain the pain is terrible and you can't cope with it and the way your jaw is. I would either mention it to your ortho or make an appointment with your dentist who should refer you. Most orthodontists work in conjuction with maxillo facial surgeons but I suppose it depends when you next appointment is with the ortho and if you want to wait. Personally I would go to the dentist asap. The last maxillo treatment has obviously not worked and you need something else sorting out. Take someone with you, your mum perhaps? who can back you up on how all this is affecting you.
Polly x
I've read your posts now, and see you are from the UK (I sent you a private message before reading these).
I hope there's some way for you to search all my posts from the last years, you can see what happened to me.
The way to check if your jaw is longer on one side than the other is to put your pointing fingers into each earhole, and your thumb onto the corner of your jaw. Now remove them and put them together to compare the length. My right was about 4cm longer than the left. It just grew and grew, very slowly over the years and my teeth ended up looking as though they were falling over. In effect I had to have my whole face reconstructed. Sounds like I must have looked really bad, but in fact I looked okay, except in photos you could see it more. Some people thought I looked fine and shouldn't have bothered going through it. But if it grew 4cm from 20 to 40, then imagine what I would have looked like at 60!
I am thrilled with the outcome. Really thrilled. I think my surgeon was very skilled. I'll tell you who he is if you want (in a private email). I didn't have the money to go private, but certainly would have if I had to speed things up. Beg, borrow if you can. Get it done sooner rather than later!
I hope there's some way for you to search all my posts from the last years, you can see what happened to me.
The way to check if your jaw is longer on one side than the other is to put your pointing fingers into each earhole, and your thumb onto the corner of your jaw. Now remove them and put them together to compare the length. My right was about 4cm longer than the left. It just grew and grew, very slowly over the years and my teeth ended up looking as though they were falling over. In effect I had to have my whole face reconstructed. Sounds like I must have looked really bad, but in fact I looked okay, except in photos you could see it more. Some people thought I looked fine and shouldn't have bothered going through it. But if it grew 4cm from 20 to 40, then imagine what I would have looked like at 60!
I am thrilled with the outcome. Really thrilled. I think my surgeon was very skilled. I'll tell you who he is if you want (in a private email). I didn't have the money to go private, but certainly would have if I had to speed things up. Beg, borrow if you can. Get it done sooner rather than later!
Hi Polly,Polly wrote:I had my braces at Crewe hospital and my brilliant surgeon works out of Chester and Liverpool hospitals if that is any help. I was treated on the NHS...
Thanks for replying. I am actually based not far from you, but I was referred to another hospital. I'm not even sure whether I should name and shame them here, as I have no idea whether maxillofacial Dr.s come on this site??? Anyway, I would just like to ask what was your jaw surgery for?
As for the parent support, I don't think they want to know. They tell me everyone's face is not symmetrical and to live with it. As for my siblings, they actually tell me, 'Wow, your face & head shape is weird!' Even in the past when people have stared or made comments, I have not been bothered by this as I can happily move on...However, when it comes from a sibling or someone in relation to you, you actually realise maybe it is very obvious. I realised that if a sibling can see it, then I am just in denial to think the public cannot notice it. Besides, if I don't get it corrected it now...it'll only get worse, as each year in photos I can tell it is worsening. I'm not even sure if I end up going for surgery, I should tell the parents...I just feel there support isn't there. They are more likely to be put off, and to think the risks aren't worth it.
Schnapple...don't worry about what anyone else thinks about your looks or whether or not you should have the surgery. You should do it (or not) for YOU. If YOU are not happy with the way you look and are tired of dealing with the pain...then go for it!
My family mostly said I looked fine pre-op and worried about me having it done. I have had people make comments about my weird nose or buck teeth. I've always been self-conscious about the way my teeth, nose and jaw looked...at least for the last 30 years since I was in jr high. I'm about 2 1/2 weeks post-op and I am absolutely thrilled with the results.
Seriously, if it means that much to you - you should do it.
--Tina
My family mostly said I looked fine pre-op and worried about me having it done. I have had people make comments about my weird nose or buck teeth. I've always been self-conscious about the way my teeth, nose and jaw looked...at least for the last 30 years since I was in jr high. I'm about 2 1/2 weeks post-op and I am absolutely thrilled with the results.
Seriously, if it means that much to you - you should do it.
--Tina