Upper Teeth Move or Flex Five Months after Surgery

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#1 Post by **nomadic myth** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:27 pm

I had a Lefort I and BSSO about five months ago. I had it done when I lived in Korea, and two months after I moved back to Canada. The ortho and surgeon were in Korea, and now I have a new ortho in Canada. Everything seems fine except my top teeth appear to push or move up when I bite together. At first it looked like it was the teeth moving in the gums, but apparently the whole upper jaw is flexing a bit--don't ask me how.

My orthodontist wants me to see a surgeon about this jaw flexing or movement. I'm rather scared myself. First, because I wanted things to be near perfect by now, and second because I can't deal with more surgery so I'm scared of that. AHHHHHH!!!!!

#2 Post by **chicago29** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:32 pm

This seems awfully odd to occur so late after surgery. The only thing I would think of is a fibrous union, but I really don't know if this is indicative of that.

Many times us jaw surgery patients imagine problems that don't really exist, but if your Ortho noted it I would absolutely get to the OS as quickly as possible.

Are you in any pain? Does your jaw feel "spongy" or like it moves when you chew?

This is very interesting and I'll be interested in hearing what your OS says. I wish you the best of luck and I hope nothing is wrong.

-Chicago29

#3 Post by **nomadic myth** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:04 pm

[quote="chicago29"Are you in any pain? Does your jaw feel "spongy" or like it moves when you chew?

This is very interesting and I'll be interested in hearing what your OS says. I wish you the best of luck and I hope nothing is wrong.

-Chicago29[/quote]

Yeah, spongy is a good word. You'd think it was the teeth in the gums, except the whole top row does it, and the ortho said it's the jaw.

He doesn't seem too panicked about it other than getting me into a surgeon for a consultation. He said that if something isn't quite right it is better to catch it than let it get worse six months down the road. It just seems, well... weird.

#4 Post by **nomadic myth** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:36 pm

chicago29 wrote:Are you in any pain? Does your jaw feel "spongy" or like it moves when you chew?

This is very interesting and I'll be interested in hearing what your OS says. I wish you the best of luck and I hope nothing is wrong.

-Chicago29

Yeah, spongy is a good word. You'd think it was the teeth in the gums, except the whole top row does it, and the ortho said it's the jaw.

He doesn't seem too panicked about it other than getting me into a surgeon for a consultation. He said that if something isn't quite right it is better to catch it than let it get worse six months down the road. It just seems, well... weird.

#5 Post by **nomadic myth** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:39 pm

Actually, the more I think of it, fibrous union sounds like something the ortho might have said today. I was a little in shock, and he was just suggesting a consultation, so I wasn't actually paying attention to the details--I was figuring I wouldn't have to think about it until the consultation. Of course, now I'm at home I'm worrying.

I hope it is easy and insured.

#6 Post by **chicago29** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:30 pm

nomadic,

Check out this post from 'phil':

viewtopic.php?t=20903&postdays=0&postor ... on&start=0

He is debraced now and has all of this stuff past him, so I'm not sure if he'll come on the board to chime in. He is the only person I know of on this board that had a fibrous union.

I know reading through phil's story may not make you feel great (he did need another surgery), but I think it may help to read through what he experienced. And, in the end, phil's result was very positive.

Please keep us posted on what you find out, and again best of luck.

-Chicago29

#7 Post by **loveyourself** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:34 pm

Oh my goodness please keep us posted. I am so sorry and you are in my prayers

#8 Post by **nomadic myth** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:37 am

chicago29 wrote:I know reading through phil's story may not make you feel great (he did need another surgery), but I think it may help to read through what he experienced.

Yeah, it didn't make me feel great, but I think I can understand more about where things may go. Interestingly, I'm not scared of another surgery, I'm just scared of the inconvenience of it all.

I'll know what's up on Monday when I go in for a CT scan with an oral surgeon. It may be fine, or it may be serious. Unfortunately I'm an impatient patient.

#9 Post by **nomadic myth** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:29 am

OK, I phoned my ortho because I was worrying too much. He said that the movement is small, and he wants the surgeon to look because it's better to check now than later. Once they do the CT scan they will know if the bone is healing well and needs to be left alone, or if it just needs more fixation (which would require minor surgery under local anesthetic and feel no worse than a filling, in his words).

He said if they leave it and it's not really OK now, then fibrosis or fibrousity (not sure how to make the noun) may develop. Then in a year he would be telling me that I need surgery to clean everything off and then they would re-do the original surgery and fixation.

#10 Post by **nomadic myth** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:30 pm

I saw the surgeon today and he said it should be fine. He wants no elastics and gave me a muscle relaxant for jaw clenching. He expects to see improvement over the next few months, and if he doesn't, then he'll consider more intrusive measures....

#11 Post by **phil** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:43 pm

hi Nomadic,

My case is well documented here on AW. Feel free to read through my posts.

I suggest that you find another surgeon and get a second opinion. If you are near a teaching hospital with a reputable dental program, go there for your second opinion. Five months is a very long time for you to not have bone growth after surgery, in my opinion.

In my case, I did have some bony contact eventually (as the surgeon discovered during the re-do), but only after a complete relapse of the first surgery.

If you do not have to have another surgery, it is better. My second surgery came with a bone graft from my hip, more nerve damage, and pain for about three months afterwards. I still believe it was the right thing to do given my circumstances, but it was a difficult ordeal. I am OK now, but it took me a long time to recover from all of that (both physically, and perhaps more importantly, psychologically).

Let me know if there is anything I can do, and remember that we are here to help each other.

Be well, and at peace,

Phil

#12 Post by **nomadic myth** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:11 am

Thanks for the advice and encouragement, Phil. I think I will see another surgeon just for my mental well being. I'm worried about what's going on in there with the tissue fiber and bone. What I wanted to have heard was that everything is perfect and as it should be and I never have to think about my mouth again.

On a positive note, though, after a night's sleep on a muscle relaxant my jaw clicking is extremely reduced and my face feels lighter. I suspect my clenching may have been a lot worse than I imagined. We'll see how it progresses.

#13 Post by **phil** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:04 am

nomadic,

I'm glad that you seemed to have a more restful night last night. May you continue to sleep with a more relaxed jaw.

I'm also glad that you are planning on seeing another surgeon for a second opinion. The second opinion never hurts!

Keep us posted on how things progress. It's a good thing to share information.

Be well, and at peace,

Phil

#14 Post by **nomadic myth** » Tue May 18, 2010 11:23 am

phil wrote:I'm also glad that you are planning on seeing another surgeon for a second opinion. The second opinion never hurts!

Keep us posted on how things progress. It's a good thing to share information.

I never got around to seeing a second surgeon. I was too lazy, and the movement decreased after muscle relaxers for a month.

About five weeks ago I got bite turbos. They feel great, as my bite was quite deep. Here's the interesting thing--with the turbos in the two top front incisors meet the bottom incisors, and that's the PRIMARY contact point. The top teeth hardly move at all. Yesterday part of the extra cement added to the bite turbos came off, letting my bite go deep again. Because the incisors were contacting the lower braces, the movement was greater again.

Somehow strong pressure on the incisor moves the teeth a bit, but total pressure from the bite turbos doesn't move them. I'm guessing that as my molars come together better the moving will stop altogether. However, I'd still like to know if the healing is a strong bone heal, or a fibrous bond. Is there a way to x-ray or MRI and see a bone heal or a fibrous heal?

#15 Post by **phil** » Tue May 18, 2010 6:16 pm

Nomadic, there is no diagnostic tool to give you a conclusive answer. Your best answer comes from a qualified specialist.

I am giving you the same advice that I gave you before. If you have uncertainty in your mind about your condition, see another specialist, preferably a oral/maxillofacial surgeon at a major university teaching hospital.

I wish you all the best.

Be well, and at peace,

Phil