Metal Mouth Message Board

My gaps are almost closed. My surgery is scheduled tentatively for next March. I originally got my extractions March 2008, so it's been a LONG ride. However, all I'm filled with is thoughts of regret. I'm hating my ortho so much right now as he never mentioned how much narrower my arches would end up. My face is much narrower. And as a male, I don't like it one bit. I feel cheated though. A year ago, it was already looking narrower, and I asked him if things would get even more narrower, and he told me no. Fast forward to now and it's very noticably narrower, especially the bottom.

My questions....

1. How realistic is reversing extractions, ie. opening up the gaps again and widening my smile/arches/face/jaws again??

2. Do you think my ortho would either give me a huge discount or even possibly do it for free? lol. I'm totally not satisfied, and I'm shelling out $6000 to him. He never mentioned it'd get narrower. That's not why I was getting extractions. It was to push my bottom front teeth back because they were tipped quite a bit outwards.

3. Let's say we do reverse the process, is the only option to fill the gaps to pay for implants?? Man I'm in so much debt as is, and that sounds like another, what, 10-12 grand? (4 teeth)


This is so stressful. 2 years in braces when your 23-25 is stressful enough. Now I'd almost be happier where I was before the extractions since it narrowed my face so much. Any help would be appreciated!

Hey jonathon003,

You're alive! lol. I don't know if you remember me but you replied to one of my post awhile ago, and I sent you a PM, however, I never received a response back.

But I'm really hoping to get to talk to you.

Sorry, my response isn't very helpful or related to your post. I'm just glad to hear from you lol.

hey man, yeah it's been a loong time since i've been here. unfortunately it hasn't been because everything is going great either! lol. but yeah i just PM'd you back. give me a shout.

I just sent you an e-mail, thanks.

Edward

Ugh...I had the same thing happen to me as a teenager and it absolutely contributed to the train wreck that followed. Extractions should be an absolute last resort, but many orthodontists use them as some sort of cure-all. When done correctly with somebody that does not have an underlying skeletal issue, they can often work fine. Unfortunately most of the time extractions are not the answer, and they absolutely are not the answer for somebody that should be looking at jaw surgery. I wish my parents would have questioned this and never let it happen because I wonder how things would have turned out if my quack orthodontist didn't remove 4 of my permanent teeth.

Back to your situation...You cannot "reverse" extractions. When they expand your jaws, either upper or lower, the "extra space" comes only along the midline (the palatal midline for the upper and the sympheseal midline for the lower). That's true when you do expansion the typical way. For all I know there are other ways to expand the lateral areas of the jaw...it's just I've never heard of them and personally I don't see how that is possible. You expand using an expansion device that will require turning. The logical place to do this is the center midline...but as I said who knows if it can be done elsewhere.

Anyway, think of it this way. If your jaws are a "U" (or even if you are in bad shape and they are really a "V"), the extra space is going to come at the bottom of those letters. Once you are healed and the bone has grown and you've achieved expansion, you can move teeth along the arch line to a new position. All teeth can "gain space" this way. However, you are never going to gain space where those premolars were without some magical orthodontic work. I won't say it is impossible but it sure sounds really difficult. The orthodontist would need to move teeth, secure the extra space, and hold that space. That is pushing the line of what's possible, and I can assure you in an adult that's going to take a lot of time.

I sincerely doubt you need that space back to fix your teeth/bite/jaws if you are willing to do surgery. Cosmetically you may never be the same, and you're just might have to live with that. Surgery might get you closer, but it is really impossible to know for sure. People have told me my face looks "fuller" after my surgeries, but I'm not sure I see that.

If I were you, I'd look at surgery if your teeth/bite/jaws are off and a board-certified surgeon says they can help you. Otherwise, I'm afraid what's done is done and I would work with your orthodontist to ensure your bite is good and stable.

I wish you the best of luck.

Chicago29

chicago29 wrote:Ugh...I had the same thing happen to me as a teenager and it absolutely contributed to the train wreck that followed. Extractions should be an absolute last resort, but many orthodontists use them as some sort of cure-all. When done correctly with somebody that does not have an underlying skeletal issue, they can often work fine. Unfortunately most of the time extractions are not the answer, and they absolutely are not the answer for somebody that should be looking at jaw surgery. I wish my parents would have questioned this and never let it happen because I wonder how things would have turned out if my quack orthodontist didn't remove 4 of my permanent teeth.

Back to your situation...You cannot "reverse" extractions. When they expand your jaws, either upper or lower, the "extra space" comes only along the midline (the palatal midline for the upper and the sympheseal midline for the lower). That's true when you do expansion the typical way. For all I know there are other ways to expand the lateral areas of the jaw...it's just I've never heard of them and personally I don't see how that is possible. You expand using an expansion device that will require turning. The logical place to do this is the center midline...but as I said who knows if it can be done elsewhere.

Anyway, think of it this way. If your jaws are a "U" (or even if you are in bad shape and they are really a "V"), the extra space is going to come at the bottom of those letters. Once you are healed and the bone has grown and you've achieved expansion, you can move teeth along the arch line to a new position. All teeth can "gain space" this way. However, you are never going to gain space where those premolars were without some magical orthodontic work. I won't say it is impossible but it sure sounds really difficult. The orthodontist would need to move teeth, secure the extra space, and hold that space. That is pushing the line of what's possible, and I can assure you in an adult that's going to take a lot of time.

I sincerely doubt you need that space back to fix your teeth/bite/jaws if you are willing to do surgery. Cosmetically you may never be the same, and you're just might have to live with that. Surgery might get you closer, but it is really impossible to know for sure. People have told me my face looks "fuller" after my surgeries, but I'm not sure I see that.

If I were you, I'd look at surgery if your teeth/bite/jaws are off and a board-certified surgeon says they can help you. Otherwise, I'm afraid what's done is done and I would work with your orthodontist to ensure your bite is good and stable.

I wish you the best of luck.

Chicago29

thanks for the reply chicago29. really appreciate it.

i've been doing a lot of thinking today. what about jaw implants that make my face look wider?? for argument's sake, let's assume my jaw head-on looks like \_/ ...basically implants that would take those angles on either side, and tilt them so they're less upright and heading more towards the right and left..if that makes much sense. would something like that be that difficult to throw in with my current upcoming surgery (moving both jaws forward, and shortening maxilla for lip incompetence/gummy smile, also genio). i would LOVE to get jaw impants to broaden my face back to normal; then i think I could live with this a little easier. even with a narrower bite/arch.

also my 2nd question, can tipping of the molars be done?? i think part of the reason my bottom arch looks more like a V then a U is that my back teeth are all tipped inwards. can they be tipped outwards so to give the illusion of more space?? actually maybe it wouldn't even be an illusion, but actually give more space for the tongue.

You're asking questions that nobody really can answer except professional doctors. In your case I can't tell what your primary complaint is - Is it your bite or is it your appearance. Or, is it both?

If you need this surgery for functional reasons, then I say do that and get through it first. That in and of itself is more than enough to go through. Then, once you are healed, have a look at where things are at and then make a determination for cosmetic surgery.

If your bite is currently fine, I say do not do jaw surgery. I just can't recommend this surgery for purely cosmetic reasons...although I FULLY understand why some people go through it. If your bite is fine then I say you should talk to a cosmetic surgeon about jaw implants, etc.

Also, tipping of molars is a terrible solution to any orthodontic or skeletal problem. You do not want this as it will do nothing to the overall jaw structure, and it is proven to be a less stable result as opposed to teeth not being tipped. Generally, tipping is "camouflage" treatment.

Best of luck.

-Chicago29

[quote="jonathon003"]My gaps are almost closed. My surgery is scheduled tentatively for next March. I originally got my extractions March 2008, so it's been a LONG ride. However, all I'm filled with is thoughts of regret. I'm hating my ortho so much right now as he never mentioned how much narrower my arches would end up. My face is much narrower. And as a male, I don't like it one bit. I feel cheated though. A year ago, it was already looking narrower, and I asked him if things would get even more narrower, and he told me no. Fast forward to now and it's very noticably narrower, especially the bottom.

My questions....

1. How realistic is reversing extractions, ie. opening up the gaps again and widening my smile/arches/face/jaws again??

2. Do you think my ortho would either give me a huge discount or even possibly do it for free? lol. I'm totally not satisfied, and I'm shelling out $6000 to him. He never mentioned it'd get narrower. That's not why I was getting extractions. It was to push my bottom front teeth back because they were tipped quite a bit outwards.

3. Let's say we do reverse the process, is the only option to fill the gaps to pay for implants?? Man I'm in so much debt as is, and that sounds like another, what, 10-12 grand? (4 teeth)


This is so stressful. 2 years in braces when your 23-25 is stressful enough. Now I'd almost be happier where I was before the extractions since it narrowed my face so much. Any help would be appreciated![/quote]
you could have dental implants to reverse the extractions.that's what I am planning to do.

This practice should be outlawed. This is why I told my orthodontist to shove that sesame up his ass.