Metal Mouth Message Board

hello to everyone! my name is Mari and I am writing from Italy. I just discovered this forum and am thrilled.
first of all sorry for any mistakes but, as you can guess, english is not my mothertongue.
I am currently in braces from February 2020, for preparation of jaw surgery for skeletal II class malocclusion. fro, a dental Point of view, I was/am probably a I class since my teeth were compensated, although both arches were pushed forward and we are now working to push backwards. in order to do this, for upper arch the orthodontist is using the space left from a loss of 2 molars that I had in the past. for lower arch, I had my premolars removed in June, and have been braced in lower arch in July.
for now, I have not been given any elastics, powerchains or anything in particular - just a chain to push back the upper premolars in the space where the molars used to be.
when the treatment will be completed, I will go under jaw surgery as the main issue is with my upper maxilla which has "grown too much" (gummy smile). my chin is underdeveloped, although my mandible actually is really not that recessed/small.
I could have chosen to go with orthodontic treatment only, with no operation, but I decided to go the hard way.
since it will still take a long time for my operation, I would like to know what changes I can expect in my profile just with braces. my orthodontist told me my profile might change a bit, but I am not sure to which degree. my main concern is my weak chin. I also have lip incompetency and am a mouth breather, but my main issue is the chin. I would be so grateful if I could improve my profile with braces, but I am not sure that the movements we will obtain with braces will be sufficient to notice a real difference.
I would like your advice or opinion on the following points:
- I had an estimation of treatment plan of 15/20 months, so my finish line should be from May to November 2021. based on your experience, how realistic do you think this is? what is your personal experience for similar treament (moving the arches backwards)?
- is there any picture or personal experience I could see of side profile improvement with braces? I have noticed there is a topic opened of a few years ago, but cannot see the attachments. I would love to be able to see some pictures of similar results
- do you think I have a chance to have some improvements with my side profile considering the movements I have to make?
(see photos attached - side profile with mouth closed, side profile to show inclination of the arches, and mouth in relaxed position)
https://ibb.co/w068cKG
https://ibb.co/2d6hpZD
https://ibb.co/2FF3XfR

thank you so much to anyone who would want to advise me

I HOPE someone will reply! and I really want to be able to look at pictures

I had jaw surgery 10 days ago for the same thing--weak chin, gummy smile. I didn't have much of a gummy smile until my braces moved my uppers way down, so the top was impacted and the mandible advanced with a slight rotation. My surgeon suggested I forgo the genioplasty and it would look great. I made a thread on here a few days ago because I was not happy with my results--it didn't make much of a difference in my side profile. I could live with it, but it's not what I was hoping for and the reason I got the surgery at all was for my side profile, so I will have choice words for my surgeon when I see him next week.

I'll tell you what I know, and bear in mind I'm just a normal person and not trained in any way:

When it comes to facial symmetry, the chin needs to project somewhere between the projection of the upper lip and the projection of the nose, otherwise your nose looks disproportionately large for your face. You can check this out by looking at images of side profiles. I was looking up stuff about genioplasty yesterday and it mentioned you really do need one if your chin is weak because jaw advancement simply isn't enough in almost all cases. Likewise, sometimes people get chin implants or a genioplasty but nothing done to their small jaw, and it looks better (as does my jaw surgery without a chin adjustment) but not its best.

Genioplasty can also help with lip incompetence and mentalis strain, which is the chin dimpling that occurs when you have an underdeveloped mandible and try to close your incompetent lips. For me it's not just that my profile isn't much different without the chin adjustment, but that my lips still hang open and my chin still dimples. The tradeoff for genioplasty is that you usually have permanent numbness in your chin and if you search this forum, some have problems with pain and tightness. Whether that's worth the risk for you is personal. For me, I'd gladly have some numbness (which doesn't seem to most) in order to look normal.

Your question is whether your side profile will improve with braces, and the answer is no because it isn't going to change the projection of your chin. Even if your teeth were moved back it doesn't have the projection necessary to look proportionate to your nose. But I want you to remember it's not about what I think you should do and I shouldn't be the last word on what you should do. When I got into all this, it became really easy to pick apart my appearance and start taking issue with things I never even noticed before. After surgery, it's much worse, and I have had to stop taking pictures in order to stop obsessing and panicking over how it will turn out or if things are symmetrical--for example, my nose is crooked now from both swelling and because they had to move my maxilla slightly to the left. It can be easy to get upset and filled with regret that things don't look perfect or because there is plenty of information online saying you need to look this or that way. I felt called to give you a response because I had the same problem, but I feel guilty because I know this information can change how you look at yourself. It's the honest truth if you want to change your side profile, but it can also make you unhappy once you hear it because you can't un-see it and it can be difficult to accept your appearance after.

Anyway, I hope I nonetheless helped answer your question.