Got my 3rd set of alligners yesterday - now 3 months into the AOA Pro / RWB treatment. As i've mentioned, I've gotten very comfortable with the treatment, and settled into a good routine. My speech is at about 98% (to my ear), which was my biggest complaint early on. There is a noticable amount of discomfort each time I get a new set of aligners, and my dentist indicates that this is one downside of RWB versus the others - 1 set of trays every 6 weeks means each tray has to do more work and therefore more discomfort. But the trade-off is that I then get to go 5+ weeks with no issues at all.
Had a chance to talk to my dentist a bit more during this visit. I guess this approach (as mentioned by chrisd in an earlier post in this thread) doesn't utilize computer modeling - they just take the mold of your teeth, remove the teeth, re-place them, and then make an aligner - move them again, and make another tray, and so on. The treatment comes in groups of 3 sets of trays, but do to a lawsuit by Invisalign, they can only deliver 2 at a time to the practitioner. After wearing the 3rd set in each sequence, they take another mold and begin another 3-set-sequence.
He actually uses all 3 of the SPAMMERS LIKE ME in this space - RWB, Invisalign, and Orthoclear - in his practice. He was a bit vague in answering when I asked what criteria he uses to decide between the different options for a given patient. He did say that the RWB treatment is less expensive, and implied that he uses it when the correction required isn't all that significant. I also got the impression that he uses RWB when he has a patient that is more concerned about "getting in and out" than they are worried about pain - for example, he indicated that my 9-month treatment with RWB may have been much longer with Invisalign... He made a comment that "not many people know about (RWB) accept the orthos" - a fact which seems born-out by the very limited information about it on the web. He said the trays that I have are a bit thicker, and less fragile... he gave an example of one of his invisalign patients that wasn't progressing, so Invisalign used a thicker material on the next set of trays to get the movement needed. He said "the RWB people don't often have that problem". The downside of that, tho, is that it takes a bit longer for one's speech to adjust to RWB than invisalign, becuase the thicker trays get in the way a bit more. Finally, he indicated that his local Ortho colleagues seem more comfortable with RWB, maybe because it's more like their own approaches - adjustments every 4-6 weeks with time for the teeth to "settle in" before the next move...
"New kid on the block"
Moderator: bbsadmin
Just got my new aligners today. I must say I am very pleased. My speech is just slightly compromised (if at all) but I would feel comfortable talking in front of anyone already. I think part of this is the fact that I had a spring aligner last year which made speaking difficult. The red, white and blue has such a small "footprint" inside your mouth compared to the spring aligner. I had a couple of bumps attached to two of my upper teeth and some ARS to make some room for movement. Scheduled to go back in 6 weeks. They are a little hard to get out but I'm sure I will develop my own method soon. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!
Mark
Mark
good to hear you aren't having the speech issues. it really bugged me for a while (as you can tell from my earlier posts). The other thing that became an issue for me on day 2 or 3 was significant rubbing / tenderness in the tip of my tongue and along the inside of my cheek along the outside edge of the upper tray. But it cleared up after a week or so...
re: getting the trays off - this was a real issue for me on the 1st set. less so on the next 2 sets i've had. The bottom was always easy - just use my thumb-nail right in the front and pop them up. For the uppers, tho, it's tight with each new set. My trick is to start with the back of the upper tray on one side and pull that down first - then grab the back of the tray on the other side and pull down and out simultaneously (hurts like hell the first couple days!). Use trial and error to see which side to loosen first - for me I've always found it easier to pull down on the tray at my last molar on the left first, but I imagine that can vary by person.
re: getting the trays off - this was a real issue for me on the 1st set. less so on the next 2 sets i've had. The bottom was always easy - just use my thumb-nail right in the front and pop them up. For the uppers, tho, it's tight with each new set. My trick is to start with the back of the upper tray on one side and pull that down first - then grab the back of the tray on the other side and pull down and out simultaneously (hurts like hell the first couple days!). Use trial and error to see which side to loosen first - for me I've always found it easier to pull down on the tray at my last molar on the left first, but I imagine that can vary by person.
Day 6 and I sometimes forget I even have the aligners in anymore. They did adhere "bumps" to two of my teeth on the upper arch. Not sure what these are actually for. Maybe someone can fill me in.
The trays have really loosened up already and I'm experiencing no pain at all. I can already see that my upper teeth have moved a little bit. Very encouraging. My ortho. has me wearing the first set for six weeks which seems like a lot but I guess most of that is for retention purposes to allow the bone to break down/regrow in relation to the tooth movement.
I had an Easter lunch with about 15 family members and nobody noticed my aligners (or they didn't say they did!). Even if they did, I was comfortable enough to wear them around all of these people--a far cry from my previous spring aligner.
The trays have really loosened up already and I'm experiencing no pain at all. I can already see that my upper teeth have moved a little bit. Very encouraging. My ortho. has me wearing the first set for six weeks which seems like a lot but I guess most of that is for retention purposes to allow the bone to break down/regrow in relation to the tooth movement.
I had an Easter lunch with about 15 family members and nobody noticed my aligners (or they didn't say they did!). Even if they did, I was comfortable enough to wear them around all of these people--a far cry from my previous spring aligner.
interesting - didn't know that the RWB treatment ever used the "bumps"... I haven't had any applied yet.
regarding the 6 weeks - My practitioner indicates that this approach has you wear each alligner for 6 weeks - your comment seemed to indicate that your ortho implied that you would wear the subsequent sets for less? I'm on my 3rd set and have worn all of them for 6 weeks.
I'll be going in for an appointment in a couple weeks that will mark the end of the 1st 3 sets of aligners (18 weeks) - my dentist indicated that he'll make a new impression of my teeth for the lab and they'll use that to make the next 3 sets. I guess that means I'll be wearing this set of aligners for a couple extra weeks while they make the new ones based on the updated mold... we'll see! The original plan was for 6 sets of aligners, so I'm almost half-way there already. woohooo!
regarding the 6 weeks - My practitioner indicates that this approach has you wear each alligner for 6 weeks - your comment seemed to indicate that your ortho implied that you would wear the subsequent sets for less? I'm on my 3rd set and have worn all of them for 6 weeks.
I'll be going in for an appointment in a couple weeks that will mark the end of the 1st 3 sets of aligners (18 weeks) - my dentist indicated that he'll make a new impression of my teeth for the lab and they'll use that to make the next 3 sets. I guess that means I'll be wearing this set of aligners for a couple extra weeks while they make the new ones based on the updated mold... we'll see! The original plan was for 6 sets of aligners, so I'm almost half-way there already. woohooo!
I soak them twice a day (when I'm showering and when I'm eating dinner). I actually prefer the RetainerBrite things - I think they can be found on a site http://www.Dentakit.com ... I also use a mixture of household bleach and water at times, but I don't think it does as good a job. I'm also pretty good about brushing them before and after I soak them - that seems to make a difference.
I also find that I need to do something mid-day after lunch, or they get a bit nasty. I usually try to brush (teeth and aligners) but sometimes have to settle for a swig of mouthwash on the go...[/url]
I also find that I need to do something mid-day after lunch, or they get a bit nasty. I usually try to brush (teeth and aligners) but sometimes have to settle for a swig of mouthwash on the go...[/url]
Had my appointment with the dentist yesterday - marking 18 weeks (3 sets of aligners worn 6 weeks each). They took new impressions, as expected, and will send those off to the lab for them to create the next 3 sets. That means I will continue to wear the current set for another 3 weeks, which will be 9 weeks total by the time the new ones come in. He was happy with the progress to date and felt that we're on schedule to be complete after 3 more sets of aligners.
One thing that raised the alarm for me, though, in a big way - he left to see other patients, and came back a bit later while we were finishing up the new molds and said "hey - if we have to do some finishing touch refinement at the end, we may use brackets and wires"!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was a little offended by the fact that he said "brackets and wires" instead of "braces". Like he was trying to hide the reality.
Having read this message board for the past several months, I certainly know that many folks have had this result. But it was the 1st time MY practitioner had ever mentioned it. I couldn't tell if he was just giving me a disclaimer (maybe the word has gone out to dentist and orthos that they need to be warning their patients of this?) or if he sees something in my case that makes him think this will be necessary. He said he hasn't ever had to do it yet in his practice, but he wanted to let me know it was a possibility.
One other thing he said that is interesting. He indicated that we may do some "slimming" of the lower front teeth to allow them to fit nicely - which we have discussed before. He went on to say that many orthos don't like to do that - that they'd rather do an extraction. He feels that this may be because "orthos aren't very good with a drill". He says slimming teeth is old-hat to a dentist who is used to drilling, but no so for an ortho...
Anyway - thought that was interesting.
One thing that raised the alarm for me, though, in a big way - he left to see other patients, and came back a bit later while we were finishing up the new molds and said "hey - if we have to do some finishing touch refinement at the end, we may use brackets and wires"!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was a little offended by the fact that he said "brackets and wires" instead of "braces". Like he was trying to hide the reality.
Having read this message board for the past several months, I certainly know that many folks have had this result. But it was the 1st time MY practitioner had ever mentioned it. I couldn't tell if he was just giving me a disclaimer (maybe the word has gone out to dentist and orthos that they need to be warning their patients of this?) or if he sees something in my case that makes him think this will be necessary. He said he hasn't ever had to do it yet in his practice, but he wanted to let me know it was a possibility.
One other thing he said that is interesting. He indicated that we may do some "slimming" of the lower front teeth to allow them to fit nicely - which we have discussed before. He went on to say that many orthos don't like to do that - that they'd rather do an extraction. He feels that this may be because "orthos aren't very good with a drill". He says slimming teeth is old-hat to a dentist who is used to drilling, but no so for an ortho...
Anyway - thought that was interesting.
Yep, my ortho. slimmed my teeth without batting an eye. Definitely seemed to know what he was doing. Can't see the gaps anymore since my teeth have moved. Got my second set of aligners on Monday and these babies are much tighter than the first set! A little pain but I like it--tells me they're working I could notice movement the very next morning. I'm only slated to have two aligners on my uppers so this set will be it. I've got one more set for the lowers coming (3 total). I'm hoping I don't have to do brackets like you mentioned. It seems like the uppers could probably benefit from a third set but we'll see how the second set does. I'm assuming they can make a third set if need be?
I'm a bonehead
wow - only 2 trays on the top and 3 on the bottom? that's nice! and on your last question, I get the impression that they certainly can make another aligner, but at a cost to you.
quick update on my situation... a couple weeks ago I finished with the 3rd set of aligners and they took an updated impression for AOA to make the next 3 (I'm scheduled for 6 total, for both upper and lower)... This weekend, however, I decided to eat ice cream with M&M's in it and cracked a piece off of one of my molars
. I was in yesterday, and the new aligners had arrived from AOA. My dentist indicates that I'll have to have a crown replace the molar that I cracked, and that he has 1 of 2 choices:
1) do the crown now and basically risk that the aligners that AOA just made won't fit any more, or
2) leave me with a cracked tooth for the next 3 months until I get through these next 2 sets of aligners, then place the crown, then do a new impression for AOA to use to make my last aligner... that means that I'll live with this jagged-edged tooth for 3 months, and I will lose about a month of time between my 5th and 6th aligners while we wait for the crown to be made and then wait for the new aligners to be made... during that time he proposes to make me a temporary retainer (assuming I won't be able to fit aligner #5 any more) so my teeth don't move back while we wait for aligner #6.
We're going with option #2 - sounds like it's gonna cost me some bucks, but not as much as having to pay AOA to "re-do" aligners 4 and 5...
sheesh I'm an idiot.
On the positive side, tho, the overall treatment is going very well and my dentist certainly expects to be finished on-schedule (except for this crown thing)... I too got new aligners yesterday, and my teeth ache a fair-bit this morning. Every time I get new trays I end up skipping meals because it's SOOO painful to take them off and put them back on in those first 24 hours! and I'm a pretty tough guy in terms of pain threshold! but as you say - I don't mind because I know it means we're making really good progress!
quick update on my situation... a couple weeks ago I finished with the 3rd set of aligners and they took an updated impression for AOA to make the next 3 (I'm scheduled for 6 total, for both upper and lower)... This weekend, however, I decided to eat ice cream with M&M's in it and cracked a piece off of one of my molars
. I was in yesterday, and the new aligners had arrived from AOA. My dentist indicates that I'll have to have a crown replace the molar that I cracked, and that he has 1 of 2 choices:1) do the crown now and basically risk that the aligners that AOA just made won't fit any more, or
2) leave me with a cracked tooth for the next 3 months until I get through these next 2 sets of aligners, then place the crown, then do a new impression for AOA to use to make my last aligner... that means that I'll live with this jagged-edged tooth for 3 months, and I will lose about a month of time between my 5th and 6th aligners while we wait for the crown to be made and then wait for the new aligners to be made... during that time he proposes to make me a temporary retainer (assuming I won't be able to fit aligner #5 any more) so my teeth don't move back while we wait for aligner #6.
We're going with option #2 - sounds like it's gonna cost me some bucks, but not as much as having to pay AOA to "re-do" aligners 4 and 5...
sheesh I'm an idiot.
On the positive side, tho, the overall treatment is going very well and my dentist certainly expects to be finished on-schedule (except for this crown thing)... I too got new aligners yesterday, and my teeth ache a fair-bit this morning. Every time I get new trays I end up skipping meals because it's SOOO painful to take them off and put them back on in those first 24 hours! and I'm a pretty tough guy in terms of pain threshold! but as you say - I don't mind because I know it means we're making really good progress!
Wow, that is no good but it sounds like everything will work out for you.
Yah, these things are great. My previous ortho. that made me the spring aligner (which did not work at all) said I would see no improvement with clear aligners. I think he was probably just a little irritated that I was leaving his practice to pursue other means--he had to refund a good chunk of my money. My new ortho. did not even hesitate--"Yep, we can align your teeth easily with red, white and blue."
Always get a second opinion folks!!!
These are vastly superior to any spring aligner and the cost was almost exactly the same--but I got upper and lowers! The spring aligner was just upper.
I'm hoping for another good report in five weeks.
Thanks for the continued updates.
Yah, these things are great. My previous ortho. that made me the spring aligner (which did not work at all) said I would see no improvement with clear aligners. I think he was probably just a little irritated that I was leaving his practice to pursue other means--he had to refund a good chunk of my money. My new ortho. did not even hesitate--"Yep, we can align your teeth easily with red, white and blue."
Always get a second opinion folks!!!
These are vastly superior to any spring aligner and the cost was almost exactly the same--but I got upper and lowers! The spring aligner was just upper.I'm hoping for another good report in five weeks.
Thanks for the continued updates.
haven't posted my progess in a bit, thought I'd give an update. 1 week into set 5 of 6, both top and bottom, of the Red, White and Blue treatment.
All the teeth, both top and bottom, are straightened up now, and the last set of aligners will do some relatively minor fine-tuning. tooth 7 and 8 are still banging on the teeth below, and I still can't bite down fully as a result... My dentist made a call to the lab today to "ensure" that they finally get that corrected with this last set of aligners. It's been that way for about 4 months!
Assuming they can fix that issue with the last set of aligners, and there are no other bite issues that are being masked because I can't close my mouth fully , things are looking very good.
After I wear the last set of aligners for the prescribed 6 weeks, and then potentially another 6 weeks to be conservative, my dentist will place the crown on the molar that I cracked 2 months ago. He'll then have to make me a new retainer, since it's very likely that the last RWB aligner won't fit over the new crown.
Then I'll be done! The end is in sight!
All the teeth, both top and bottom, are straightened up now, and the last set of aligners will do some relatively minor fine-tuning. tooth 7 and 8 are still banging on the teeth below, and I still can't bite down fully as a result... My dentist made a call to the lab today to "ensure" that they finally get that corrected with this last set of aligners. It's been that way for about 4 months!
Assuming they can fix that issue with the last set of aligners, and there are no other bite issues that are being masked because I can't close my mouth fully
, things are looking very good.After I wear the last set of aligners for the prescribed 6 weeks, and then potentially another 6 weeks to be conservative, my dentist will place the crown on the molar that I cracked 2 months ago. He'll then have to make me a new retainer, since it's very likely that the last RWB aligner won't fit over the new crown.
Then I'll be done! The end is in sight!