Starfish's braces

[jem]

Hi Starfish,

I am surprised that your premolars survived early NHS treatment. Mine didn't!

With regard to your current dilemma, I would want to find out more from your ortho about why he now thinks there might be possible issues with stability. I guess we will all be prone to relapse anyway unless we commit to some long-term retainer wear. So is he saying that a good retention regime will not keep your teeth stable without extractions? As you say, you should be expecting further space from the widening of your arch with the damon braces and wires. Can your ortho not find you enough additional space by doing some IPR as well? I agree it would be worth getting a second opinion.

If you really are looking at stability problems if you don't have the extractions, I have to agree with Dee and say go for the extractions. Not a great option, but better than a third round of braces at some point in the future.

As to aesthetics, your teeth already look lovely so providing you are happy with how they look from all angles and (especially) providing your bite is ok, I would say don't have the extractions unless you really need them for the sake of stability.

Good luck whatever you decide

Jem

[starfish88]

Thanks! My pre-molars only survived NHS because I got about 6 months into phase 1 (which was waaay too late at the age of 13 or 14!) Infact it was the suggestion of pre-molar extraction that encoraged my appliance to break....with a little help so I could give up! Thanks though...its a lot to think through right now!

[Dee17]

Hey honey,
I don't think your overjet looks all that bad. But then again, I'm not a dentist or an orthodontist.
But first of all, I would NOT feel bad saying that it's purely for cosmetic reasons. If it's something you're self-conscious about then maybe you should just forge ahead and do it. My shrink thinks I'm crazy for getting my teeth fixed! He kept asking me before I actually got my braces put on, "Is it purely for cosmetic reasons?" I thought, "Oh, duh!! I have a HUGE gap between my teeth. Yes, it's for cosmetic reasons!!" Of course, I could probably have done nothing if I were willing to walk around with a huge gap in my teeth for the rest of my life. The point is, even though I'm 54 years old, that was not an option. Now, I had NEVER thought of myself as a vain person before. I never spent much time fussing with my hair and only rarely even wore makeup. So, my whole reaction to the thought of getting braces really took me by surprise. I mentioned this to a friend one day and she said, "I don't think you're being vain at all. Everyone wants to look their best. If your teeth bother you, get them fixed." So, that's pretty much I would say to you. If the overjet bothers you and having these extractions will make fixing it easier, then maybe you should just bite a bullet, take some serious anxiety medications (or go under sedation) and have them done. That way you can stop fussing and fretting about the process.
Believe me, I worked myself up into an absolute state of HYSTERIA just before I finally got my braes put on. I was driving my kids crazy. The day I went in to have them put on, I was a wreck because I hadn't slept in about three weeks -- that's how crazy I had made myself. Within three hours after leaving the office, I could feel all my anxiety literally melting away. So, be a little kinder to yourself and try not to put yourself through all that mental anguish. It's not worth it. Believe me.

[Angel269]

Starfish
At the end of the day if it's cosmetic only and your happy I would leave it. If it's reduced by so much anyway that can only be the outcome you were looking for?

I had an extreme dental phobia which has only been managed in last 3 years. Fortunately I have never had fillings or extractions (just couple of fissure sealants). I put down my phobia to the appearance of my teeth and it was a vicious circle-my teeth wouldn't look any better if I wouldn't get any treatment but at the same time I was too anxious and embarrassed of my teeth to get any treatment.

[starfish88]

Thanks guys!

Angel: I totally know what you mean about the cycle of feeling bad about your teeth, so not getting treatment, so feeling worse. Thinking about it my overjet never really played a part in that, it was my crooked tooth and the twisted lateral that really bothered me and made me want braces. Now both are getting fixed I should be happy.

Dee: I'm glad you think my overjet doesn't look bad - I have been analysing photos of me from before and after and its improved insanely.

Jem: I e-mailed my ortho asking about stability - from what the assistant said there should be very little movement as long as I wear retainers - I'll ask about both the permament kind as well as the essix/hawleys so I 'double up' for extra reassurance. But i agree - if he thinks there may be the slightest chance my teeth would get worse again the extractions will be a good idea. I'll also email him about the idea of IPR. Much as the idea of shaving my teeth gives me the heeby-jeebies its preferable to extractions in my mind.

My fiance thinks I shouldn't have extractions but I'm not sure if thats because of the cost or he really doesn't see it as worth it. I guess I'm worried that whatever I do I'll wonder if it was right. It would be 'my overjet isn't perfect - i should have got teeth out' or 'am I looking old/thin...i shouldn't have had teeth out'. I'm just one of those nit-picky people who would see the fault in whatever option i pick. I just need to remember that at the start of treatment I had an agreement with myself that I wouldn't regret turning down surgery if I got my overjet below 6mm. Well now its 4mm I should be so happy...lets face it its 1/3rd of what it was! Its also within the normal range, even if its not ideal! I smile like a crazy person anyway, most often with my mouth open so I doubt I'll notice it!

I'll leave it until after Christmas to make a decision though because it may all be a moot point. My teeth feel like they are on the move again and I don't have a bite again either. If I get another mm or so off I'll be certain I don't want extractions (again assuming stability). My chin is quite pointy so some ammount of overjet suits me. It also won't be worth the risk of aging badly....so long as the dentist can reassure me the result will be stable. I also think that as my upper teeth tilt out making my upper jaw look less narrow the overjet will look better. Its just so hard to imagine how I'll look with the braces off!

[starfish88]

...if I get IPR I can get a powerchain and finally get to play with colours! Plus its the perfect compromise, get more space but don't lose teeth. Fingers-crossed my ortho agrees!

[starfish88]

Thinking extractions are a moot point now. I just measured my overjet and its 2mm! IPR can fix that and if not I'm still happy! I have perhaps figured out why I didn't get much movement last time though. Someone just posted on the main message board about expired elastics and I had a look at mine (I didn't even realise they expired!) and although my new ones (bears) are all good my last ones from before my last adjustment (foxes) expired 4 years ago!!!! I'm pretty pissed at my ortho (and a little at myself) for not noticing. I also emailed my ortho about the IPR thing and got a rubbish reply from the assistant saying he couldn't talk about it until my next appointment I felt really pissed about that because he got back to me a lot faster and with lots of detail before he got all my money and now I feel really fobbed off. I might bring in my old elastics next time and complain about both because I really feel annoyed at how I have been treated in general. I wish i had a nicer ortho - Ebony: if your ortho ever fancies heading down-under point him in my direction!

[Dee17]

Hi Starfish,
Oh, man, I'm with you on this. If my orthodontist gave me elastics that had expired FOUR years ago, you'd bet, I'd be plenty ticked off about that. I would definitely bring it up to him and ask him about it. You certainly have the right to do that.
As for not getting back to you via email, I don't think I'd be quite so mad about something like that though I can see your point. One of the things that most working people complain about is the amount of time they spend each day reading and responding to email. Look at it this way, if he didn't have email you wouldn't have been able to contact him that way. I think you should give him a little slack on this issue, but that's just my opinion.

[Dee17]

Hi Starfish,
I meant to ask you before, what does IPR stand for? It's an abbreviation I've seen a lot on this forum but I don't know what it means.
Thanks.
Dee

[starfish88]

Hi Dee, IPR is interproximal reduction. Basically they shave a tiny fraction of the enamel off the sides of the teeth which touch creating gaps. They can either use a drill thing with a sander or a flexible file (like a nail file). The teeth can then move into those gaps and close them. It can help mild overcrowding and I'm hoping even taking as little as 0.3 to 0.5mm off each tooth side can add up to give me the 2 or 3mm my ortho wants. I hope I have explained but if not there are youtube videos explaining it. I just refuse to watch them as i don't want to freak myself out about IPR too!

It sounds absolutely awful but apparently it doesn't hurt and doesn't harm the teeth. I would certainly prefer this to extractions though since I'm worried extractions would give me 5-10mm of space when I don't need that much and it will make me sunken. I asked my ortho but his assistant basically let me know he can't be bothered to reply until my next appointment!

[Dee17]

Hi Starfish,
Thanks for the explanation. Wow, I think you are brave to consider something like that but I guess it would be much better than having an extraction. I have just the opposite problem.... too MUCH space in my teeth. Anyway, it sounds like it would be a good solution for you. As far as your orthodontist not replying to your email, again, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. But I'd definitely take it up with him especially if his assistant was as rude as it sounds she was. There's not reason to say something like that to a patient. Ick.

[starfish88]

Hee hee...well i was paraphrasing but that was the gist of the e-mail!

[Dee17]

Well, still I think there are nicer ways to say something like that, don't you?

[starfish88]

Yes! Totally, especially someone who I paid several 1000s $ to!

[Dee17]

I think you should definitely mention it to him when you see him. He may not have any idea that this has occurred. Sometimes front office staff can be overly zealous in trying to "protect" the boss. That may be what has happened in this situation. Talk to him about it.