Metal Mouth Message Board

Hey everyone,

I just turned 35 and have had braces for about 2 years now and am supposed to get them off soon but thought I'd tell my story for those who may be interested.

I'd never had braces as a kid. My teeth were never too bad, I just had what I thought was some slight gaps in front of the canines on both sides that I wasn't too happy about. Everything else was fine...or so I thought. I went to my regular dentist, who does a lot of cosmetic work, to talk about veneers or bonding to fill in the gaps. He took molds of my teeth and had a look at everything and said that because of the way my teeth angled in at the front, veneers or bonding would probably just end up popping off. He suggested that I go consult with an ortho to assess the situation. I didn’t know of anyone in particular so took his recommendation.

So next I went to see the ortho who proceeded to expose all sorts of unknown problems. My front teeth angled in and were wearing against each other, I had a bad overbite, and my teeth barely came together properly at the back on one side. He said he could treat me but first I had to go see the gum specialist. Being an adult, they like to get your gums checked out to make sure you can handle all the teeth moving around. So off to the gum specialist I go where I find out that I have too much gum at the front at the top and bottom so my teeth look small. He says he’s going to cut some of that off and also I don’t have enough gum on the top on one side so we’re going to have to take a graft and stick that up there. Sounds super…

So I had the gum surgery thinking that I’d like to have my teeth when I’m 80 and they’re going to fall out if I don’t. The graft was very painful, I think I’d rather take the chance of my teeth falling out if that opportunity ever comes up again. Anyway, the roof of my mouth was black and sore for about a week or so but healed up in time to get my new appliance on, step one of the braces. I needed to pull my top back teeth back and out a bit to get them lined up with my bottoms to correct my crossbite. This contraption was extremely painful since I don’t think they fitted it properly, the wire kept digging into the roof of my mouth causing extreme pain. After having the ortho adjust it about every week for a couple of months, it finally got to the point where it was digging in so bad it created this groove in the roof of my mouth which is still there today and it turned black and bruised. I was ready to pack it all in and called up and said either fix this thing for good or take it off and I’m done. He decided they’d moved enough to take it off…worst pain of my life. I’ve broken bones, torn ligaments, had surgeries, etc. but this was hands down the worst. He joked that I hadn’t experienced childbirth yet so probably wasn’t going to be the worst pain of my life…not so funny.

Next up was getting the top braces on. Took a while to get used to but was OK, the usual pain for a few days after each adjustment but tolerable. Got my bottoms on about 6 months later and on we continued. Lots of adjustments and no visible improvement to me. The gaps just kept getting bigger and I didn’t even have any teeth pulled for this process.

I was supposed to be close to being finished about a year ago now but things were not progressing as he’d hoped. I was starting to get a sick feeling about this whole thing. Finally back in the summer, he announced we were almost done. I said wait a minute, what are you talking about, the whole reason I came here was because of these gaps, they’re bigger than they were before. Basically he said that’s all he can do because my teeth are too small, I don’t have enough teeth to fill up the space. But they the bite is wonderful at the back he said, which I could care less about. He couldn’t have told me my teeth were too small before we started? WTF? I left the office in tears as I have many times since then, having wasted 2 years of my life, $7K, permanent scarring, and a lot of pain.

I went back to my regular dentist, who I like, and he consulted with my ortho a couple of times trying to sort things out. Basically, the closer I am to getting them off, the crappier they look and now I’ve got these weird spaces opening up all over the place. The ortho thinks they look fine! We’ll just fill that in with bonding, he says. I have bonding on one tooth already that I chipped off as a kid and let me tell you, bonding sucks. I don’t want a whole mouth full of it, if I did, I would have just done that in the first place! I think he’s losing it! I also think since I paid him off a year ago and he isn’t getting any more $ from me, he wants to get rid of me asap. So after speaking to my regular dentist about 3 times, he’s agreed they’re not coming off until I’m happy which I’m definitely not.

Anyway, I was supposed to get them off in Nov, then in Dec, and now again in Jan. I think they look like hell and my one front tooth has been hurting terribly for 6 months now, I think he’s moved it in too far in because I can feel the root sticking out of my gum at the top. I go back again next week, supposedly to get the molds taken for my retainer but there’s no way that’s happening. I’ve come too far to give up now but am hugely upset and frustrated and really don’t know what to do about it. I’ve thought about going to another ortho to finish the job even though it’s going to be more money out of my pocket.

Bottom line…if I could take it all back, I would.

Will keep you posted with the outcome.

Very sorry to read about your story, empire.

Are you sure that transferring to another ortho - someone you can trust and who can achieve the outcome you want - is not an option?

Hello. dont give up, check with another ortho.

newmetal

Thanks for the advice everybody. I guess a big factor is a financial one, the next ortho's definitely not going to take over for free. The other thing is I don't really want to let him off the hook out of principle, it's his job to fix my teeth and I've paid him a lot of $ to do that so it's sort of a catch 22. He could probably care less if I walked away at this point but at the same time I kind of want to make him see it through.

Anyway, I'm set for a visit next week so we'll see how that goes. I'll maybe try to set up a consult with someone else. At least I can put my mind to rest if they tell me that he's honestly done all he can then I guess that's all I can do too.

I feel a bit guilty for complaining sometimes as I'm sure other people would look at my teeth and ask what exactly the problem is. Yes, he's fixed some underlying problems that may not be visible to others but not the one I was unhappy about and the whole reason I went there in the first place.

Will check in again later...

you poor thing, what a horror story. i can relate somewhat, i had a bad experience when i was a teenager, my folks were paying for it all so I had to go through with what the ortho convinced them was right, which created more problems than what I initially had..which I wont go into here! Now 10 years later, after much suffering, I'm fixing up all the problems I've had since out of my own pocket.

Please seek a second opinion, if only to get a report to take back to your original ortho. You could also ask him to do some research or consult with his peers as to what the best course of treatment is.

I saw another ortho about 5 years ago, she wouldn't treat me, because my roots were too short. Now I have an ortho and prosthedontist working together as a team to get the best outcome: I keep as many of my teeth as possible!

Goodluck, and keep positive, get what you started out to achieve.

Hey everybody

Had my latest appointment today. This was supposed to be to get my final molds done for my retainers. I told the assistant that was working on me today that I was supposed to get my molds taken but didn't think I was quite ready. I pointed out the gaps that are still there and the root poking out at the top on one side. So she says OK, she'll let the ortho know before she does anything and have him check me out first.

So of course he dismisses everything I say as per usual and says he can move things around somewhat with the retainer and anything else can be filled in with, you guessed it...bonding. So yet another unsuccessful visit.

He's supposed to send out my molds on Monday so there's no turning back after that. So I get back to work upset as usual and call up my regular dentist and ask him for another ortho to get a 2nd opinion. He's very sympathetic and offered to call him up again directly to discuss things or have me come in to his office to have a look. I said thanks anyway, but we'd basically already tried both of those options in the past couple of months and it didn't really help.

Anyway, bottom line is I've got an consult with another ortho next week. In the meantime, I had to lie to my current ortho since I had to call back there and tell them not to send out my molds until I tell him it's OK possibly sometime later next week. I told the receptionist I had another appt. I needed to go to but didn't give any specifics. She asked if he knew I had another appointment and I sort of hesitated and said I told him that I wanted to see my regular dentist before I finalized anything. Which was true, I just left out the part about seeing another ortho too.

I don't want to tick him off just in case this other ortho confirms that he truly has done all he can do, I still have to see him periodically over the next couple years or whatever the post retainer stage involves. Anyway, it's turned into quite the drama.

Will update again after I get my 2nd opinion.

Thanks for letting me vent...

Oh yeah...forgot one funny thing. When I told him the root was poking out, he said it wasn't poking out, it's just "more prominent" on one side than the other. I think that's code for poking out...

Anyway, he said I had to choose between having the root be "more prominent" on one side or having a gap if he adjusted it back in. So now instead of trying to make things right all around, I just have to choose which is the least undesirable option. Aaahhhhh!

And the drama continues…

I went for my consult with another ortho today. This was a lady my dentist referred me to who he deals with now and again but he mostly deals with my current ortho and another guy. Bottom line is he doesn’t send much business her way so she’s got nothing to lose by telling me how it is. I’m sure it’s that way most everywhere, a small group of doctors that basically keep each other in business. Anyway, she was extremely nice and sat down and explained everything in a reasonable way and was very sympathetic to my situation.

She did say that my ortho probably had done everything correctly from an orthodontic perspective, given the size of my teeth and the way they come together and whatnot. The front and back bites lined up nicely, it’s just that these gaps are still leftover in between. She said you can usually tell before you start if this is how things are going to work out which either 1) would have made it easier to accept the end result had I known up front or 2) may have changed my mind about even doing it in the first place.

She also said he was very expensive and for that kind of money I should be happy with the outcome. She would have charged almost $2K less for the same treatment and included the retainer in her fee so that of course ticked me off even more.

She said that sometimes, even though orthodontically everything is in order, you need to take the patient’s aesthetic concerns into consideration as well and didn’t agree with how he was handling things either. She’s familiar with him and knew about his demeaner and such so my issues were not a big surprise to her.

Bottom line is it’s not possible for everything to be perfect naturally so something’s gotta give, which sucks but I have to deal with it.

Basically, she laid the options out for me

1) I can do the bonding and get my braces off in a couple of weeks as per his current plan

2) She said he may be able to move my back teeth forward to fill in the gaps that way. If he does that, I have to give up having the proper bite at the back but she said it’s probably not the end of the world. To do that will mean keeping me in braces likely until summer which will take me to the 3 year mark. She also said that he may refuse to do it since it’s not orthodontically correct.

3) So the third option is to ditch him and have her finish things up and move the teeth forward, at an additional cost of course after the fact that I’ve learned I’ve already grossly overpaid.

I spoke to my regular dentist this afternoon after my consult. He’s been playing phone tag with this lady most of the day and still hadn’t spoken to her directly when I talked to him. She basically told me that he got me into this situation and should be sticking up for me with my current ortho and even went so far as to suggest he should tell him to give me some $ back. I doubt that will happen but it would certainly be nice.

My dentist said he’d call my current ortho tomorrow after he’s spoken to her and see what he thinks about moving the back teeth forward. All without mentioning that I even went for a second opinion although I think at this point it’s going to come out anyway. The relationship is strained as is and now that I know he took me for extra $ too, this whole process cannot end soon enough.

I’m glad I went and got some honest feedback but now I’ve got to make a big decision as to how I want to proceed and I just don’t know what to do. I’m leaning toward continuing on and closing the gaps even though that means not having a perfect bite but I just don’t know…

So we’ll see what transpires tomorrow…

Thanks for listening…

Hi Denise

All the teeth line up properly and are where they're supposed to be, it's just that the top teeth are not quite big enough to fill up all the space.

You're right though, no matter what I can't just leave the gaps or spaces will start opening up somewhere else, probably between my front teeth. The retainer will supposedly keep the gaps open the way they are for about a month or so and hold everything in place until the teeth and gums settle down and then my regular dentist can put on the bonding to fill up the gaps permanently. That's the ortho's plan.

OR I close the gaps up from behind and sacrifice the bite lining up properly at the back although I would think it should still be pretty close at the front. So that's the big dilemma, they definitely have to get closed up one way or another, just not sure which is the best route.

So bottom line is I can't have it all. I can either suck it up and have a proper bite and deal with the bonding or forgo the bonding and end up with a not quite right bite.

Hi all

Thought I'd better change my subject line to something more general. Don't want to scare anybody away from getting braces because there are some pretty great success stories on this site.

My dentist spoke to both orthos today, gathered all the info and tried to sort things out. I got a call from my current ortho's office to say that he wanted to set up a "meeting" next Tuesday. I don't know what exactly was said during his phone call with my dentist but I think I pretty much know how it's going to go down next week. I think he's just going to try to talk me into the bonding route yet again so same old situation as I've been facing the last few months. I think I'm going to tell him I got another consultation since at this point I don't really care what he thinks about it and I feel a bit taken advantage of financially.

I can't hold out much longer and they're definitely wearing me down, probably going to give in soon but I've got the weekend to mull it over. Most people I've talked to seem to think I should just do the bonding and don't understand why I hate it so much. Then again, none of them actually have any bonding so don't really know what it's like.

I originally went to the ortho for aesthetic reasons and then found out about the underlying problems as part of the process. It was never a function of pain or anything. I was thinking though after reading the recent posts from Linda and Kiwi, that moving the teeth up certainly doesn't guarantee anything either. Even though I didn't have pain before even with my bite being off, if I consciously move the teeth out of position to fill in the gaps, it could potentially create pain or be uncomfortable and I could end up in a worse position. That's a real possibility.

My co-workers say they don't even notice the gaps, only after I point them out. But that's not the point 'cause I see them and they bother me. It's funny, I'm usually the one doleing out the "therapy" at work. I've got this guest chair in my cubicle that sees quite a bit of action each day. People seem to like to sit in "the chair" as they call it and let it all out with me for some reason...but it's been a lot more the other way around lately. It's a wonder I get any work done!

Anyway, all will have to be decided one way or another next week.

Until then...

Hi everyone

Thought I'd post some pics so you all can visualize what I've been talking about. After reading about the nutjob fetishists that lurk around on the site, thought I'd better get a separate email so that took a while to set up.

Unfortunately, I don't have any before pics. I moved just before Christmas so haven't uncovered them as of yet. Anyway, here's a link to a few pictures...

http://picasaweb.google.com/bracedup

Things look pretty good from straight on. You can see the gap on the right side is much larger than the left. These are what the ortho wants to fill with bonding. What do you guys think? Would you think I'm finished by looking at these pics?

Still haven't made any decisions as I've got 'til Tuesday.

Later...

Hi Empire. Where is this current guy you're seeing? He isn't in Woodbridge by Kipling & Hwy 7 by chance? My oldest son saw an ortho at that location and now 7 years later his mouth is a mess. One of his bottom front teeth has shifted and moved into his mouth. The gums are receeding on his upper right molars. This ortho is sooo bad that my youngest son's dentist won't recommend him (says he has a bad rep) and my current ortho does a lot of this guy's clean up. I feel really bad for you and what you've gone through. I'm getting braced this week and it's to correct a bad bite not to necessarily straighten my teeth - that part is just an added bonus. I haven't really begun my journey yet but I don't think I would sacrifice a good bite to cover gaps - that will probably recur once the retainer is gone anyway.

AMD
p.s. My ortho is charging me $7,500 which includes all xrays (except intial consults), molds, retainers, nightguard for afterwards, and permanent bonding of retainers.

kiwi - both orthos said the gaps were due to the size of my teeth and sometimes because of that and the way your jaw is shaped, etc. this sort of thing will happen.

amd - no worries, this guy is at Hwy 7 and McCowan out in Markham. I picked him partly because of location as I used to live and still work in Richmond Hill. Mine will be close to $7K after the retainer fees. I'm going to get one of those invisaline type ones to wear at work during the day if it affects my speech too much.

Anyway, it's not that I think he's out to consciously screw up my teeth or anything, I just wasn't 100% convinced he'd presented all the options to me. Bottom line, I think he does an OK job, he's just a cranky old man and not very personable (except on the initial consult when he's looking for business). He yells at his assistants in front of everyone which is very uncomfortable. And one time, when one of my wires popped out of the tube (eating crusty bread...bad I know), he was on holidays and I had to go somewhere else to fix it. The receptionist sent me to the wrong guy by accident. She called me up from home and asked me not to tell him where I'd been...she was freaked out he was going to be so mad. I didn't tell and he didn't ask. In addition, this poor girl didn't even have a proper working mouse to do her computer work. I felt bad and brought her a sample from my work. He was too cheap to even buy her a $20 mouse!

Welcome to the board otherwise, you'll find lots of great support and info. Linda, KK, and Denise have all been particularly helpful to me and it's always good to see other success stories. Sorry to hear your son has had so much trouble. Hopefully your adventure will go much smoother. Looking forward to hearing your progress.

L

Well folks...it's official...next Wednesday I'm getting naked!

My Tuesday "meeting" went as I figured it would. He was a little more pleasant after I told him I went for another consult. I told him how hugely disappointed I was at the outcome and said the other ortho pretty much confirmed what he'd told me although did present another option. I didn't say as much as I'd hoped to as I seem to get pretty emotional about this whole thing. Anyway, he said he wasn't going to BS me and would leave them on for another year if he truly thought it would help. My teeth just don't want to move in any further without angling in or ending up grinding against or bumping into any of my other teeth or without putting them off centre.

He showed me pictures of other people with bonding and said how happy I was going to be. I'm not concerned about how the bonding will work out. I'm confident my dentist will do a fine job, that was never an issue for me, it's the fact that I have to have it at all. He said he's so pleased as we've corrected 99% of the problems. Unfortunately, his 1% was my 99%.

Sooo...unfortunately it doesn't work out for everyone perfectly and I guess I'm just one of those few. So after a bit of a meltdown last night, I think I've about 75% accepted the situation. What's done is done and obviously no turning back. The molds are going out tomorrow for the retainers.

So it's definitely mixed emotions, disappointment at the outcome but will be happy to finally get them off. I'll have to wait about a month to get the bonding done and let everything settle down a bit.

I'm a little scared about getting them off though...the one tooth that's been bothering me for the last 6 months is going to be killer. My teeth are pretty sensitive. The electric toothbrush he gave me when I first started, I ended up throwing out. The vibrations on my teeth hurt too much so am kind of scared about them grinding the glue off, particulary on the one tooth. One of the assistants told me to take some Advil a couple hours beforehand to help.

I'm also a little worried that once there's just a retainer holding things in place, more spaces are going to open up. So many whatifs...will have to read up some on the post removal forums.

Well, that's about all I have in me today...still trying to deal with everything.

Hey everyone

Well…they’re off.

It wasn’t exactly pleasant. It was a bit painful because of the pressure they have to use to pry the brackets off. The metal ones came off fairly easily but the ceramics are tough to get off and the molar bands take a little more effort too. I only let out one “holy @#%!â€