hello lingual land,
first of all, i want to say thank you to everyone here for your personal entries. they all have encouraged this "mid-thirties" newguy to take the necessary steps toward getting lingual braces - top (ceramic - bottom).
here in new york city, there are enough othodontists that work with lingual braces, but i was hoping someone here would be able to recommend an ortho. i've done my research but would love to hear from you guys.
also, the ortho i recently went to said i would NOT be a candidate for linguals because of my overbite. he said when i bite down my bottom front teeth would hit the linguals on the top front teeth causing possible breakage (of the linguals), etc. i was very disappointed hearing this and now am seeking a second opinion.
thanks.
new here, need recommendation/advice
Moderator: bbsadmin
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Ibraces2007
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:39 am
I have an overbite also, when I bite down my bottom teeth comes in contact with my upper lingual just like you describe. You might want to try several other orthodontics and see what their opinion is. For me, the only problem I have incurred has been my bottom teeth coming in contact with my upper linguals and wearing out the O-Rings.
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ibraceface
- Posts: 131
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:14 pm
- Location: PA
Hey-
I have a full set of linguals-- and a very deep overbite! I was so nervous as to how i'd bite down without biting mybrackets off!
My ortho did infact give me molar build ups... which made me have to get creative when it came to meal time!
I had them for about 8 weeks and she popped them off last week and now im biting somewhat more normally! (not hitting brackets anymore)
I have a full set of linguals-- and a very deep overbite! I was so nervous as to how i'd bite down without biting mybrackets off!
My ortho did infact give me molar build ups... which made me have to get creative when it came to meal time!
I had them for about 8 weeks and she popped them off last week and now im biting somewhat more normally! (not hitting brackets anymore)
thank you everyone for your input. very helpful.
also, i had another consultation with a different ortho. he said i WAS a candidate for linguals (he has plenty of xp's with linguals) and was surprised at what the other ortho said. this doc was very cool and gave me straight forward answers. i may go with him but i have a couple of more consultations in the coming week(s).
keep you posted.
also, i had another consultation with a different ortho. he said i WAS a candidate for linguals (he has plenty of xp's with linguals) and was surprised at what the other ortho said. this doc was very cool and gave me straight forward answers. i may go with him but i have a couple of more consultations in the coming week(s).
keep you posted.
Quest for a Lingual Orthodontist in New York Metro Area
I am also seeking a good lingual orthodontist in the NY area. I just started my research and it didn't start off with linguals or an orthodontist! Here's what I've found so far:
1) My first consultation (no charge) was with a general dentist who does Invisalign. He has a compact, well-decorated office on CPS with a friendly and courteous receptionist. After a short wait (<5 min), I was escorted to the treatment room and after brief intros, he did a visual exam of my teeth. He said my teeth were in good shape and that I was a candidate for Invisalign and that it would take about 18 months. He talked about how many hours per day it had to be worn, etc. the normal stuff you can find from the brochures. He was very friendly and easy-going and made me feel comfortable. We talked about payment, for my case it would be about $5200 if I prepaid. I left the office feeling ready to take the plunge but wanted to at least get a second opinion to feel 100% good about my decision. I did a whole bunch of research that weekend and ... ironically, came across quite a few stories of Invisalign failures (that required conventinal treatment afterward) and also came across quite a bit of info out there regarding effectiveness of general dentist vs. orthodontist for treatment of orthodontic cases. In the end, I felt that I would be doing myself a disservice if I didn't go to a specialist, so decided not to go with the general dentist but to keep Invisalign as an option, if I was eligible.
2) My second consultation (no charge) was with Ortho #1 who has an office on the UES of Manhattan. The waiting room was tiny (it is NY!) and the receptionist was courteous. After completing some forms, I was soon taken into one of the rooms for digital pan, ceph, and pictures - the room was exceptionally clean, almost sterile, which is a good thing for a dental office. The images were taken methodically and professionally. Ortho #1 and the treatment coordinator came in and Ortho #1 proceeded to review my case with me. She was very professional and seemed knowledgeable, although frankly I did very limited research before this appointment and so I did not ask many questions. She did tell me that although I was not experiencing pain or clicking in my jaw that she saw evidence of 'asymptomatic' TMJ, as manifested in the noticeable erosion of the tips of my front lower teeth (from grinding at night). Because I have an overbite and moderate crowding, she told me I was not a candidate for Invasalign. This was disappointing but not totally unexpected, based on my own research of Invisalign contraindications. Ortho #1 left and the TC proceeded on. The TC basically presented me with three options, clear (ICE), metal, or a clear/SS combo (DAMON 3), and asked me to pick the one I wanted. I asked her for the pros/cons and she said they were pretty much all the same and left the decision to me. Completely based on cosmetics, I picked the clear (ICE) just to pick something and move on to the next step, which was the discussion of finances. Bottom line, $9,450 for 16-18 month, no extractions, and this was after the 5% pre-payment discount. This included a bonded retainer for the lowers and a clear retainer for the uppers and 3 years of retainer checks post-treatment. I left feeling pretty shocked about the pricing (somehow I assumed that conventional would be less than Invisalign) and a growing feeling of unease regarding the way in which I was asked by the TC to choose an appliance option without any information. That said, this was balanced by a favorable impression of Ortho #1 herself and her knowledge and thoughtful analysis of my case. Due to the way in which the TC handled the 'education' part of the consult, I realized I had to be an educated consumer. Today, enlightened with a bit more info, the pricing seems actually pretty average for Manhattan and may even be a good deal considering all of the extras (and adjusting for the UES address). In doing the post-consult research, however, I've decided to go for linguals if I'm eligible, and Ortho #1 does not do linguals. So, for those interested in ceramics or metal, I think Ortho #1 would have done a very careful, thorough and professional job but do your own research on the appliances before hand so you can ask the right questions (i.e. don't rely on the TC for insights or info).
3) My third consultation (no charge) was with an Ortho #2 who has a variety of office locations in Northern NJ. Not convenient if you don't have a car, but easy enough to get to if you do (actually I think there is a train station right across the street from one of them). The office definitely looks like it caters more to pediatric dentistry, but I was assured on the phone that Ortho #2 also does adult cases. A few minutes after completing the form I was brought back to one of the rooms. Ortho #2 was there and after quick intros, he did a visual exam of my teeth. No xrays, pics. He immediately identified the overcrowding, overbite and the malocclusion problems identified by Ortho#1, and asked if I had any pain or noticed teeth grinding (which I still don't notice any of). He did not specifically mention the slight erosion/wearing of my front lower teeth. He told me I was not an Invisalign candidate and also told me they are not completely invisible (they are somewhat reflective and the tray line can sometimes be seen depending on how much of your gums show when you smile). He mentioned that, depending on the xrays, I might have to have my bicuspids removed. He then recommended linguals and proceeded to describe the iBraces system, i.e. the iBraces brackets are custom designed to the contours of the patient's teeth and the archwires are pre-bent to the stage of the treatment plan. I assume this means much less time for the ortho in installing (though possibly less control) and better fixation of the brackets to the tooth (presumably fewer mishaps). I asked him about the STb lingual system and he was not really familiar with it. The best part of the visit was finding out that Ortho #2 has iBraces himeself - how's that for an endorsement! I did not see them at all and did not notice any speech impediment until he pointed out to me his slight lisp (which he said he had before and if anything having the iBraces have forced him to enunciate and actually improved his lisp). He's 12 months into the treatment and says it's going well. Price was $7800 for iBraces. Ortho #2 is a possibility, but I am nervous now about the possibility of having to extract teeth and this is not something that Ortho #1 mentioned at all, so now I feel compelled to get more opinions.
From the three experiences to date, what I've learned is that there's nothing like educating yourself and knowing what questions to ask. I now have appointments in the next two weeks with 3 more orthos, one in Northern NJ and two in Brooklyn. Depending on how these go, I may bite the bullet and do consults with a couple of Manhattan orthos. The Manhattan lingual orthos that I've found so far all charge consult fees ranging from $175 to $650, and from what I hear the case fees start at around $12K. I don't have insurance, so I'm somewhat price-sensitive and this just seems like a lot of extra $ to pay ... unless convenience and expertise is really significantly better. I'm also trying to do some research on the different lingual appliance systems, e.g. iBraces, STb, GAC In-Ovation L, etc.
Will update as the story unfolds! Would love to hear any feedback from your experiences!
1) My first consultation (no charge) was with a general dentist who does Invisalign. He has a compact, well-decorated office on CPS with a friendly and courteous receptionist. After a short wait (<5 min), I was escorted to the treatment room and after brief intros, he did a visual exam of my teeth. He said my teeth were in good shape and that I was a candidate for Invisalign and that it would take about 18 months. He talked about how many hours per day it had to be worn, etc. the normal stuff you can find from the brochures. He was very friendly and easy-going and made me feel comfortable. We talked about payment, for my case it would be about $5200 if I prepaid. I left the office feeling ready to take the plunge but wanted to at least get a second opinion to feel 100% good about my decision. I did a whole bunch of research that weekend and ... ironically, came across quite a few stories of Invisalign failures (that required conventinal treatment afterward) and also came across quite a bit of info out there regarding effectiveness of general dentist vs. orthodontist for treatment of orthodontic cases. In the end, I felt that I would be doing myself a disservice if I didn't go to a specialist, so decided not to go with the general dentist but to keep Invisalign as an option, if I was eligible.
2) My second consultation (no charge) was with Ortho #1 who has an office on the UES of Manhattan. The waiting room was tiny (it is NY!) and the receptionist was courteous. After completing some forms, I was soon taken into one of the rooms for digital pan, ceph, and pictures - the room was exceptionally clean, almost sterile, which is a good thing for a dental office. The images were taken methodically and professionally. Ortho #1 and the treatment coordinator came in and Ortho #1 proceeded to review my case with me. She was very professional and seemed knowledgeable, although frankly I did very limited research before this appointment and so I did not ask many questions. She did tell me that although I was not experiencing pain or clicking in my jaw that she saw evidence of 'asymptomatic' TMJ, as manifested in the noticeable erosion of the tips of my front lower teeth (from grinding at night). Because I have an overbite and moderate crowding, she told me I was not a candidate for Invasalign. This was disappointing but not totally unexpected, based on my own research of Invisalign contraindications. Ortho #1 left and the TC proceeded on. The TC basically presented me with three options, clear (ICE), metal, or a clear/SS combo (DAMON 3), and asked me to pick the one I wanted. I asked her for the pros/cons and she said they were pretty much all the same and left the decision to me. Completely based on cosmetics, I picked the clear (ICE) just to pick something and move on to the next step, which was the discussion of finances. Bottom line, $9,450 for 16-18 month, no extractions, and this was after the 5% pre-payment discount. This included a bonded retainer for the lowers and a clear retainer for the uppers and 3 years of retainer checks post-treatment. I left feeling pretty shocked about the pricing (somehow I assumed that conventional would be less than Invisalign) and a growing feeling of unease regarding the way in which I was asked by the TC to choose an appliance option without any information. That said, this was balanced by a favorable impression of Ortho #1 herself and her knowledge and thoughtful analysis of my case. Due to the way in which the TC handled the 'education' part of the consult, I realized I had to be an educated consumer. Today, enlightened with a bit more info, the pricing seems actually pretty average for Manhattan and may even be a good deal considering all of the extras (and adjusting for the UES address). In doing the post-consult research, however, I've decided to go for linguals if I'm eligible, and Ortho #1 does not do linguals. So, for those interested in ceramics or metal, I think Ortho #1 would have done a very careful, thorough and professional job but do your own research on the appliances before hand so you can ask the right questions (i.e. don't rely on the TC for insights or info).
3) My third consultation (no charge) was with an Ortho #2 who has a variety of office locations in Northern NJ. Not convenient if you don't have a car, but easy enough to get to if you do (actually I think there is a train station right across the street from one of them). The office definitely looks like it caters more to pediatric dentistry, but I was assured on the phone that Ortho #2 also does adult cases. A few minutes after completing the form I was brought back to one of the rooms. Ortho #2 was there and after quick intros, he did a visual exam of my teeth. No xrays, pics. He immediately identified the overcrowding, overbite and the malocclusion problems identified by Ortho#1, and asked if I had any pain or noticed teeth grinding (which I still don't notice any of). He did not specifically mention the slight erosion/wearing of my front lower teeth. He told me I was not an Invisalign candidate and also told me they are not completely invisible (they are somewhat reflective and the tray line can sometimes be seen depending on how much of your gums show when you smile). He mentioned that, depending on the xrays, I might have to have my bicuspids removed. He then recommended linguals and proceeded to describe the iBraces system, i.e. the iBraces brackets are custom designed to the contours of the patient's teeth and the archwires are pre-bent to the stage of the treatment plan. I assume this means much less time for the ortho in installing (though possibly less control) and better fixation of the brackets to the tooth (presumably fewer mishaps). I asked him about the STb lingual system and he was not really familiar with it. The best part of the visit was finding out that Ortho #2 has iBraces himeself - how's that for an endorsement! I did not see them at all and did not notice any speech impediment until he pointed out to me his slight lisp (which he said he had before and if anything having the iBraces have forced him to enunciate and actually improved his lisp). He's 12 months into the treatment and says it's going well. Price was $7800 for iBraces. Ortho #2 is a possibility, but I am nervous now about the possibility of having to extract teeth and this is not something that Ortho #1 mentioned at all, so now I feel compelled to get more opinions.
From the three experiences to date, what I've learned is that there's nothing like educating yourself and knowing what questions to ask. I now have appointments in the next two weeks with 3 more orthos, one in Northern NJ and two in Brooklyn. Depending on how these go, I may bite the bullet and do consults with a couple of Manhattan orthos. The Manhattan lingual orthos that I've found so far all charge consult fees ranging from $175 to $650, and from what I hear the case fees start at around $12K. I don't have insurance, so I'm somewhat price-sensitive and this just seems like a lot of extra $ to pay ... unless convenience and expertise is really significantly better. I'm also trying to do some research on the different lingual appliance systems, e.g. iBraces, STb, GAC In-Ovation L, etc.
Will update as the story unfolds! Would love to hear any feedback from your experiences!
i went to see my dentist recently for some minor work. btw, the first ortho works here also. their office does just about everything, has convenient hours and a few blocks from my home. my dentist and the ortho explained to me that labial braces would work the best for my situation and i would receive the optimal results with labial vs. lingual in less time as well. they said something about the type of force that labial braces generate would be best for me. does that sound somewhat familiar to anyone? there was some ortho jargon that i missed. my guess is a "push" versus "pull" kind of thing.
anyway, as mentioned before i have a few more consultations coming up. i'm going to meet at least 2 ibrace orthos. the fees for manhattan orthos ($12K) that rogna mentioned scares me. i couldn't get anyone of them to tell me the cost of ibraces over the phone.
keep you posted.
anyway, as mentioned before i have a few more consultations coming up. i'm going to meet at least 2 ibrace orthos. the fees for manhattan orthos ($12K) that rogna mentioned scares me. i couldn't get anyone of them to tell me the cost of ibraces over the phone.
keep you posted.
Maybe this is particular to your case? In mine, choice of bracket would have made no difference to treatment time, I was told.the ortho explained to me that labial braces would work the best for my situation and i would receive the optimal results with labial vs. lingual in less time as well. they said something about the type of force that labial braces generate would be best for me. does that sound somewhat familiar to anyone? there was some ortho jargon that i missed. my guess is a "push" versus "pull" kind of thing.
As for cost, I don't have much change out of A$14K for lingual uppers/ceramic lowers and I shelled that out 2 years ago.
Linguals
Hi newguy, my ortho told me that if I had lingual braces and I had a problem hitting the brackets and breaking them off that they could fit me with some sort of little mouth piece that would stop that. Try asking about that, or find an ortho that knows how to use those. Good luck!