Relationships with Braces

Message

#46 Post by **kudos213** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:47 am

i'll respond to the last post here...

My whole point is that they are temporary. It may be four or five years, but it's still something that is going to go away and no longer be a part of someone's life or appearance. As such, I do not think braces are a big deal AT ALL, for a man or woman. I would expect someone with braces, if anyone, to be sympathetic to that.

You may not think they're a big deal, actually I don't either, but just because they are temporary has nothing to do with how we should feel about them. The same argument can be made about ANYTHING we experience in life. Just because there is a conclusion to our experiences doesn't mean we can't be affected by them.

This whole discussion is dumb, we shouldn't be arguing about whether or not braces are attractive/unattractive, because it's more about feeling good about yourself no matter what. Braces will come and go and before you know it will be ancient history.

I just want everyone in this forum to feel good about themselves and to not ever feel like braces can stop them from doing anything. Only you can do that.

This kind of epitomizes how i've felt about this board from the beginning. First of all, this discussion is not dumb. The original poster felt bad I think about their love life and wanted some opinions. Secondly you can't always feel good about yourself no matter what, unless you're on drugs. Braces do come and go, but that doesn't mean at some point you won't feel down about it, yourself or everything else.

Lets be clear, braces aren't a crutch. If you get a C on an exam it's not the braces fault. But when we deal with relationships its a bit different. I've said from the beginning that I think girls with braces have it easier than guys with braces and if you want to go out and feel great about yourself, then go right ahead. But i'm not disregarding the people who might feel bad about their appearance, even though they appreciate what the metal in their mouth is doing for them.

Everyone feels down in the dumps from time to time and that's fine. I think it's wrong to try to avoid it, to try to just think happy thoughts and disregard how you're feeling, or to listen to the somewhat superficial remarks on some of these threads that just try and pad the posters into thinking they're GREAT!! and everything's ok.

#47 Post by **SnowSara** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:35 pm

double post

#48 Post by **SnowSara** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:36 pm

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I fully believe that you can control how you react to anything that happens to you in life. There is a moment in everything when you can step back and choose to be positive, or let things drag you down into the negative. You absolutely have a choice. I'm not going to feel sorry for anyone that lets their braces make them feel bad, because it doesn't have to be that way.

And yes, I think being temporary is a big reason not to feel all that bad about them. This, too, shall pass.

#49 Post by mg » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:51 pm

I've started and deleted this more than once............

1. Positive attitude. An important and difficult quality to maintain throughout the commitment to being braced which is a very good reason to belong to this site chock full of like stories, education and reputable information. Braced for health reasons; crowding, crossbite, grinding, TMJ, and more, none of which include vanity.

2. Gender. Irrelevent to the topic of braces. Period. (More than one male has posted)

3. Cheerleading, motivation and morale. You BET I will continue to and have been uplifted by others who have responded to my questions. It helps me and others maintain that Positive Attitude (see #1) through the pain of the process and major decision to drop of chunk of $$ into oral health today rather than later (cost benefit analysis), to name just two.

4. Good sense of humor. Important to maintain.

#50 Post by **SnowSara** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:12 pm

So true!
The reason I still post here post-braces is to help answer questions when I can or lend some moral support. I'm not saying it's easy to think positive all the time by yourself and that's why we're all here... but you have to at least acknowledge the fact that you CAN think positively, have the choice to think positively, even if you need the support of others to do so.

#51 Post by **kudos213** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:44 pm

Good posts, guys. But let me ask you this, SnowSara. You say you can just choose to think positive all the time? Well, then why get braces in the first place? Health concerns, well those don't matter either, just think positive. What's that? You'll develop oral conditions later on in life that will compromise the quality of your teeth? So what, just think positive.

My point isn't that you can't think positive, what i'm saying is that maybe you shouldn't try to be happy ALL the time. There are times where you're disappointed, sad etc. and that's fine. What i'd rather get at those times are accurate advice, not just think-happy, you-look-great complacent advice.

i'm not saying I disagree with everything that's being said here. If a girl dislikes me because of my braces I don't think of them as shallow (and it's most likely not solely because of the braces, obviously). But that doesn't mean if someone asks for an honest opinion of relationships and braces i'm just going to say that it doesn't affect it whatsoever. It may or it may not. But if the OP is going through some tough times because of how his/her smile looks while braced i'm going to empathize and say I understand. No, don't disregard it and don't dismiss people who aren't romantically attracted to you due to braces. If you're brave enough to put yourself out there while braced (and while not braced) you'll have to expect that there are obviously people who will form opinions about you based on how you look, just like most people here do as well. The ones who claim that looks aren't important are displaying some sort of reverse-shallowness. Apparently they think it's somehow superficial to be attracted/unattracted to someone due to looks. As long as it's in balance with other things I feel there is nothing wrong with it. End rant

#52 Post by ***melissa*** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:19 pm

Kudos- You seem like an intelligent guy, but some things you say really make me wonder. Like asking why everyone here is always so positive. Hmmmmm!...could it be because this message board is not only for brace faces (like myself) to find information, but also to *GASP*...receive SUPPORT from other adults going thru the same thing?! And ever hear the saying "If you don't have something nice to say, then don't say it at all!"?????? From reading this board I gather everyone here tries to be as nice and supportive as possible. WHICH IS A GOOD THING! No one would come here if everyone was mean and negative! I personally love this message board because almost everybody here is so freaking friendly. Of course, we have come across some not-so-pretty braceface pictures, but that does not mean a person has to go and point out the obvious! There is no point, except to make that member feel even worse about themselves!

Also, so you say:

kudos213 wrote:The reason I got braces was because I like girls with a good smile. Dental hygiene is definitely important to me and I felt I would be the biggest hypocrite to demand a decent smile but not try and have one of my own.

and...

kudos213 wrote: you bet your butt I expect negative consequences if I fall short of my own standards

..but yet you are still wasting your time and breath asking out girls even though you already know they will turn you down or end up leading you on in the long run. Are you bored or something so you're performing your own experiments to see what a girl would say????? Or are you practicing for when you get your braces off?

#53 Post by **kudos213** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:30 pm

Melissa, I hear what you're saying. Support is obviously a good thing and being in braces is definitely a time when you can use it. I'm not trying to be negative but rather when someone feels down about being in braces I just want to say that THAT IS OK. If I feel bad about my appearance I don't want someone telling me that I actually look GOOD and that everyone who thinks otherwise is wrong. That in turn makes me feel bad for having thought I didn't look my best in the first place. Be supportive, but I think a dose of reality is in need as well.

I'm not sure what you're getting at in your final paragraph. I'm not saying no one will date you or me if we have braces on, i'm just saying that it does take away from your overall appearance. Which is fine. I'm still going to ask girls out. I'll still get some numbers and some rejections, which I have. People are getting the wrong impression apparently since i'm not all cuddly and super-nice like everyone else here. Braces should not stop you from trying to have a romantic life (although I think it might slow it down if you're not already in a relationship).

..but yet you are still wasting your time and breath asking out girls even though you already know they will turn you down or end up leading you on in the long run. Are you bored or something so you're performing your own experiments to see what a girl would say????? Or are you practicing for when you get your braces off?

They may like me, so I don't think they will necessarily be leading me on. But yes, I am bored and I am ALWAYS performing my own experiments to see what the ladies will say and I am also always practicing for the day I get debraced. Good call.

Kudos- You seem like an intelligent guy

This is also a correct assessment

#54 Post by **SnowSara** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:31 pm

That's ridiculous. This was a thread about self esteem and dating, not miraculously curing physical ailments with the power of positive thinking. Self esteem and changing the way people see you is very much about being positive.

Again, no one said you couldn't find whomever you wanted unattractive, but IN MY OPINION I think it is absolutely silly to blame it on braces. And I'm glad that you are in a minority.

I appreciate that you're trying to show some empathy to those who are feeling a bit down, but MY point is we can't wallow in our sadness forever, you need to get up and get on with things and realize in the big scheme of things this isn't a big burden at all. Life is short, enjoy it.

#55 Post by **kudos213** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:58 pm

That's ridiculous. This was a thread about self esteem and dating, not miraculously curing physical ailments with the power of positive thinking. Self esteem and changing the way people see you is very much about being positive.

Snowsara, no one said you can miraculously cure anything with positive thinking. Furthermore, self esteem and the way people see you is somewhat about being positive, but it is not the only thing. Sometimes you need to take a hard look at yourself and see what you can improve. This requires a dose of reality. Walking around thinking positive all the time will help somewhat, but i've met a number of people who think if they just act happy all the time they'll be fine. No. You can be even more happy if you think positive but are honest with yourself. We all have shortcomings and the point is to not gloss over them (nor accept them) but to understand them and improve on them. Sometimes this leads to less than positive thinking, but is essential.

Again, no one said you couldn't find whomever you wanted unattractive, but IN MY OPINION I think it is absolutely silly to blame it on braces. And I'm glad that you are in a minority.

Read carefully, I am not saying people will dislike you SOLELY because of braces. But you are naive to think that a person can't be turned off by a certain feature someone has. If you looked at someone and they were great except they had a big nose, or a bad hair day, or a missing tooth or whatever it is not shallow to be turned off by that. It may even be a deal breaker. So what? Everyone here is so scared of thinking that braces may actually not be seen as a positive thing and, gasp, may actually be viewed as less than attractive, that everyone has put up all these walls against it.

You know what, i'm actually glad my braces don't make me look good. I try and get the ugliest ligs I can so that when I smile the first thing people see is how metal filled and unfinished my braces are. I enjoy the fact that I can turn some people off with my braces. Because more than once i've seen friends who had horrible, horrible smiles with braces get them off and I couldn't help but think "WOW, they look phenomenal." These were both guys and girls. That is why I got braces. I accept my bracefaced unattractiveness, because I can see the changes in my smile. And i'm making it a point to see the girls that weren't interested in my during my stint in braces after I get them off. Some might still not be interested in me. However, if one of them does feel differently it'll be good to have the opportunity to treat them as they've treated me. That's all.

Life is short, and I am enjoying it. That means experiencing it. Not being afraid of feeling down once in a while.

#56 Post by **SnowSara** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:15 pm

Snowsara, no one said you can miraculously cure anything with positive thinking.

Uhhhh you asked the question a page back dude.

I basically disagree with everything you said and there's no point in talking to you further. I'm with meryaten, i give up.

#57 Post by **fluffybottom** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:17 pm

I think there is a difference between empty positivity and being constructively supportive. Saying 'No, you look GREAT!' or 'If s/he isn't interested in you because of your braces, you're better off without her/him!' doesn't strike me as particularly supportive because it doesn't truly acknowledge the problem at hand and is somewhat dismissive of the underlying feelings (the former statement more so than the latter). Telling a person that they shouldn't fee bad conveys the impression that they are not entitled to their feelings. Sometimes, it is okay -- and perfectly understandable -- to feel crappy about things.

Instead of saying 'You look GREAT!', a more constructive approach would be to lend advice on how to improve ones self-esteem in regard to braces, dating tips and strategies on how to get through that mental road block. There are external tricks: Spa day! New haircut! A kicky new pair of shoes! There are internal tricks: Take part in activities that you are good at and have confidence in! And so on and so forth.

And while one certainly is better off not being with a suitor who would judge them because of their braces, that truth doesn't remove the pain of rejection. Attraction is a key part in a relationship -- not the only part, not the most important part, but certainly a big part -- so it is completely understandable to be stressed out about something that will potentially affect someone's first impression of you. Personally, I find the idea of being involved with someone I am not attracted to just as depressing as the idea of being involved with someone I can not respect on an intellectual/moral level. I don't want to have to close my eyes and imagine someone else when playing the horizontal hokey-pokey!

I feel that the issue of attraction is a very sensitive topic, especially with women, and to say that attraction plays a key role in relationship will many times cause people to react with defensive outrage. How DARE you judge me on my looks instead of the qualities that truly define me, you pig!! The thing to keep in mind is that attraction is subjective. Attraction does not mean a small nose, a trim waist, a muscled body, or blonde hair. There is nothing demeaning about finding your partner attractive; being attracted to your boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife is a good thing! Physical attraction is important, especially in the beginning -- afterall, you don't notice an impressive command of five syllable words or a big heart for charities from across the room! Personality, intelligence, kindness, etc. is what is going to make the other person love you and stay with you but that doesn't change the fact that most people will be more likely to approach a stranger they personally find attractive in some way than someone who doesn't catch their notice/has something about them that turns the other person off.

Anyhoo, I kind of rambled all over the place. Basically, I just wanted to say:

1. It is okay to feel bad sometimes
2. Physical attraction is perfectly natural and nothing to be outraged about
3. I like cake

The third point has no relevance to the discussion but it is still very true!

#58 Post by **kudos213** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:17 pm

That was an exaggeration to prove a point. Not a claim. Read more carefully.

#59 Post by **kudos213** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:20 pm

fluffybottom wrote:I think there is a difference between empty positivity and being constructively supportive. Saying 'No, you look GREAT!' or 'If s/he isn't interested in you because of your braces, you're better off without her/him!' doesn't strike me as particularly supportive because it doesn't truly acknowledge the problem at hand and is somewhat dismissive of the underlying feelings (the former statement more so than the latter). Telling a person that they shouldn't fee bad conveys the impression that they are not entitled to their feelings. Sometimes, it is okay -- and perfectly understandable -- to feel crappy about things.

Instead of saying 'You look GREAT!', a more constructive approach would be to lend advice on how to improve ones self-esteem in regard to braces, dating tips and strategies on how to get through that mental road block. There are external tricks: Spa day! New haircut! A kicky new pair of shoes! There are internal tricks: Take part in activities that you are good at and have confidence in! And so on and so forth.

And while one certainly is better off not being with a suitor who would judge them because of their braces, that truth doesn't remove the pain of rejection. Attraction is a key part in a relationship -- not the only part, not the most important part, but certainly a big part -- so it is completely understandable to be stressed out about something that will potentially affect someone's first impression of you. Personally, I find the idea of being involved with someone I am not attracted to just as depressing as the idea of being involved with someone I can not respect on an intellectual/moral level. I don't want to have to close my eyes and imagine someone else when playing the horizontal hokey-pokey!

I feel that the issue of attraction is a very sensitive topic, especially with women, and to say that attraction plays a key role in relationship will many times cause people to react with defensive outrage. How DARE you judge me on my looks instead of the qualities that truly define me, you pig!! The thing to keep in mind is that attraction is subjective. Attraction does not mean a small nose, a trim waist, a muscled body, or blonde hair. There is nothing demeaning about finding your partner attractive; being attracted to your boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife is a good thing! Physical attraction is important, especially in the beginning -- afterall, you don't notice an impressive command of five syllable words or a big heart for charities from across the room! Personality, intelligence, kindness, etc. is what is going to make the other person love you and stay with you but that doesn't change the fact that most people will be more likely to approach a stranger they personally find attractive in some way than someone who doesn't catch their notice/has something about them that turns the other person off.

Anyhoo, I kind of rambled all over the place. Basically, I just wanted to say:

1. It is okay to feel bad sometimes
2. Physical attraction is perfectly natural and nothing to be outraged about
3. I like cake

The third point has no relevance to the discussion but it is still very true!

^^^TITCR 100%. Well said.

#60 Post by **fluffybottom** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:25 pm

Especially the cake part, right?