Age 23+, Maxillary expansion without surgery. Experiences?

[Nothingcametomymind]

Hello,
My first post under my first topic. Great forum, thanks to everyone that share their experiences.
I am 23 years old and braced for about 4.5 months. Rather than the order of my teeth, I am actually interested in the maxillary extension. My dentist is applying SME (Slow Maxillary Expansion) using Quad Helix. Had my 2 upper premolars extracted when I started orthodontic treatment and braces that I quit in the middle 5 years ago, anyway now a fresh and determined start.
Did anyone get satisfying results with SME and quad helix at that age or above? I acced to wear these metals as long as it takes (3 or more years), I just want the result.
Thank you

[PuppySmiles]

Welcome to the forum!

I've been told by the total of 4 orthodontists and 1 oral surgeon I consulted that maxillary expansion through non-surgical means wasn't possible past the age of about 16.

I had to pass up the surgery option and just live with my weird bite as it is, unfortunately. So, if adults are beginning to get good results with non-surgical means, I'll be very interested! Keep us posted how it goes?

[Nothingcametomymind]

Main thing to keep your eyes open for is your teeth just tipping instead of just moving outwards,

Thats correct. I dont want my jaw stay in same position and teet moving outwards creating a V angle.

I've been told by the total of 4 orthodontists and 1 oral surgeon I consulted that maxillary expansion through non-surgical means wasn't possible past the age of about 16.

Hmm thats weird. Because my 20 years old sister got braced at the same time with me, got SME quad-helix applied, and the expansion is simply incredible in such short period of time.

I had to pass up the surgery option and just live with my weird bite as it is, unfortunately.

m8 I suggest you to have a look at following topic to the end. This is my first concern rather than weird bite or aesthetic.
viewtopic.php?t=26405&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Mouth breathing which is caused by narrow jaw has a HUGE! impact on human life in my opinion (and from my experience) that as it seems. I live the symptoms that people mention in above topic like being tierd all day, cant get the needed amount of sleep with quality, hard to concentrate, performance degredation and so on for my entire life! which is so life quality degrading! Then these symptoms ends up with being same symptoms as "depression" that you are not aware of. Then you get lost in a circle between you and your physciatrists untill you find the issue on your own.
As I first discovered that, I got a rhinoplasty. Before rhinoplasty, I was waking up so messed no matter how long or short I slept (15 hours or 5 hours or 7-8 hours). That surgery made me breath better which made a significant improvement, now waiting for the day I wake up energetic.

[Flaka]

Main thing to keep your eyes open for is your teeth just tipping instead of just moving outwards.

I agree with Meryaten on that. Look out for your teeth moving outwards. I was never told I will need surgery from neither dentist or ortho. At the moment, I am being treated with elastics to widen my upper arch and correct bite, but what I have been seeing in the last 3 months, is that all of my right molars (the sides I wear elastics on) have been tipping instead. I wonder now if surgery was the way to go + braces.

As for the mouth breathing, I have been a mouth breather since I can remember. I do suffer from sinuses and wass thumb sucker as a child for a long long time which lead to a very narrow and high palate. I also have a deviated septum.

One of the reasons I got braces was the hope that it might help in the long run to be able to breath normally.

Did you get a septoplasty or just a rhinoplasty?

[Nothingcametomymind]

I was never told I will need surgery from neither dentist or ortho

Flaka how old are you?

Did you get a septoplasty or just a rhinoplasty?

I got both.

How can I understand the difference between tipping and moving?

[Flaka]

Hey Nothingcametomymind, I am 30 years old.
I am not really sure of the difference to be honest. I though it was almost the same thing. Now you got me thinking if they are tipping or moving outwards, lol. Mine look like they are moving kind of sideways and up.

Maybe Maryaten can help us with the difference.

[Nothingcametomymind]

I am 30 years old.

Oh thanks, I am not alone Do you have quad helix too? Do you see a noticable difference in your jaw width ? For me, my mouth started not to close exactly at molar range which is a sign for movement

As for tipping, it can only be understood visually I think. A tipping upper jaw should look like ∩ while moving upper jaw looks like ^ . Dont know if the ticking feeling that at molar and premolars I get when I push my tounge to my upper jaw, is a sign for tipping or not.

[Flaka]

I don't have a quad helix. My ortho is treating me only with elastics. By reading different stories here, I noticed that some people are treated with expanders and others only with elastics. I wonder why now. How does the ortho determined if you will get an expander or not. Maybe it is a preference?

I guess based on your explanation, my teeth are tipping and not moving outwards.....all these terminology is making me confused

I am thinking about getting a septoplasty next year. How was the recup?

[Nothingcametomymind]

What does elastics look like? Placed inside the jaw?

How was the recup?

what does recup mean?

[Flaka]

Thanks for the explanation Maryaten.

Nothingcametomymind, recup means recuperation. Sorry, I should have written the whole word.

I wear the elastics going from top two molars to lower second molar:

[Nothingcametomymind]

Thanks for explaination Meryaten, exactly as I thought. I am wondering if surgery is possible for expanding the palate without moving cheeks?

Flaka, my Plastic surgeon was the best in the city, operation went through without breaking the bone (using some micro-motor technology or something)completed in 2.5 hours, stayed one night in hospital, no tampon in nose, no purple eye, no external entry so no scar on face.

Right after the surgery, vommited some blood a couple of time which was told to be a usual reaction to narcosis. Blood went on dripping from my nostrils in a decreasing fashion, lasted 1 day

Just a plastic plaster outside the nose which stayed just for one week. I was able to go to work in third day, was able to breath a little from one nostril in 3 days and from other in 7 days. When the plaster was removed in first week, first look to myself was damn frustrating, my nose looked like so... dont know the right word.. so "hand made", so noticable that an opertion was done, but doc said that it was actually caused of the nose tissue took the shape of the mold. He said "tissue will now continue to shape naturaly", and it happened as he said. The shape was natural in a week, went on getting better and better. After two weeks, none of my friends ever noticed that I had operation . There were some dry blood in nostrils which was completely cleaned in 2 weeks using nasal spray. Using the suggested pomade, little swelling at face gone in one week, and swelling in nose was fairly less in 3 weeks or so. Good breathing in one month, I was permiited to be on plane in 1.5 months, and excellent breathing in 3 months.
Visited my doc every week in first month, he was pushing my nose externally (lol he was still shaping) and checking swelling internally. That pushing thing looked weird at first, but the explaination made on this by doc totally made sense. He said "Surgeon intervention with tools should be kept at minimum, and let the human body do its thing naturally with little external aid". That way, the bone structure will stay same after years, unlike breaking and shaping way that nose starts falling and collapsing after years as he said.

Its now 11th month over surgery, the result is just AMAZING. Only side effect which actually has not that much importance for me is you slightly lose feeling at the tip of your nose because of septoplasty

[Elspeth]

I'm 19 and I wore a... quad helix thingy, I think, well some permanent device in my mouth which I had to turn every day for 6 months to expand.

I'm not sure what to say about the back teeth only 'tipping' but I definately noticed my smile became MUCH wider! Looking at old photos from a few months before and now, there's less dark space on the sides of my smile. My back teeth are definately slanting a bit outwards instead of straight down but they have also moved from being inside my bottom teeth to actually sitting over them.

So, I think it can work, it just depends on your individual case...

[RMK09RR]

Hi,

I'm 25 and have a cross-bite, I think a palatal expander will do the trick, I'd prefer not to do surgical, but I I've read that at my age, non-surgical would not do much. I need only 2 or 3 mm on the right side, not sure though if I will be able to just get palatal expansion on one side though, but even if it happens on both sides, I think my biting will improve.

I was wondering if anyone got good results with little or no tipping, and most of the movement being translation of the entire tooth. Any ideas on how many mm did your teeth move with the palatal expander?

Thanks for your answers

[dbala]

Hi Nothingcametomymind- I see this was posted about 7 years ago but I'm about to embark on the same journey and would love some insight. I have a posterior crossbite and an anterior open bite. I'm opting out of the surgical option as I just can't stomach my jaw being cut apart and screwed back together. In all my research and the published clinical studies I've read, SME seems like a very plausible and successful method to expand and "tip" a narrow and high alveolar arch to flatten and widen it. I've come to realize there is a difference between this "alveolar tipping" and a suture reopening and expanding. Do you have any photos of your arches during throughout the expansion phase of your treatment? My biggest worry is having my teeth tip and risking root exposure/recession. Any insight is appreciated! :)

[quote="Nothingcametomymind"]Hello,
My first post under my first topic. Great forum, thanks to everyone that share their experiences.
I am 23 years old and braced for about 4.5 months. Rather than the order of my teeth, I am actually interested in the maxillary extension. My dentist is applying SME (Slow Maxillary Expansion) using Quad Helix. Had my 2 upper premolars extracted when I started orthodontic treatment and braces that I quit in the middle 5 years ago, anyway now a fresh and determined start.
Did anyone get satisfying results with SME and quad helix at that age or above? I acced to wear these metals as long as it takes (3 or more years), I just want the result.
Thank you :)[/quote]

[mindinggaps]

I'm also about to embark on this journey! 26 and expanding without surgery. My ortho wants to do SME first with a removable Schwartz appliance, then braces combined with a quad helix. It seems a ton of people have had success expanding without surgery on this forum. My ortho said he regularly achieves success with adults. I'm excited although the appliances involved seem a bit scary.