Expander negative side effect: lip now covers top teeth

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#1 Post by **hk123** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:36 am

Hi all Please can you help? I wonder if anyone else has experienced the same issue.

A few years back my ortho recommended an expansion device to wide my top arch to disguise my overjet. This did work, but the side effect was that my front teeth expanded to a point where my top lip now covers my top teeth completely - which looks very weird.

Has this happend to anyone else? And what did you do to reverse it? Is there any device that helps reverse what the expander did?

I did complain to the doc, but he thought I may like the more pronounced top lip over time (but don't) and he's now moved away.

Hope to hear from someone who's been through this....

#2 Post by **Kitagirl** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:54 pm

You mean when you smile, it still covers your teeth?

#3 Post by **hk123** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:06 am

Well when I half smile it still covers. And when I very broadly smile, it's not too bad - but I have to make an effort to do it in order to make the upper lip skin move across and not go over top teeth. Hope that makes sense!!

#4 Post by **drrick** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:06 am

There is a condition called "double lip" If you have it you were born with it. Sound like you could potentially have that

#5 Post by **hk123** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:14 am

Hi Drrick, thanks for your response. Nopes wasn't born with it. I always had a normal smile and the lip issue emerged immediately after the expander was used. I only used the expander at night for a few weeks only, but it's incredible the effect its had...

Do you know of any device that reverses the effect of this expander?

#6 Post by **drrick** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:22 am

You only used the expander at night for a few week?

I am surprised it did anything?
Just dont wear it anymore and everything will probably relapse back.

The only other thing I can think of is if your upper teeth are tipped way back the lip MAY go lower. Even that seems like a stretch.

#7 Post by **hk123** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:31 am

Yup - wore the expansion device for a few weeks only (which preceded my orthodontic treatment), but that was back in 2005 and it still hasn't relapsed back since then.

I feel orthodontics would tip the teeth back a fractional amount, but to undo the severe negative effect of the expansion device requires something which works in reverse to push back teeth - and I am wondering whether this indeed exists?

#8 Post by **drrick** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:33 am

Can you return to your original doc?
If not another doc.

Still dont see how anything happened in just a few weeks -- especially with expansion which is often not that stable. (exceptions of course)

#9 Post by **hk123** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:44 am

The original doc has moved away (to another country). I've recently consulted with three orthos but none have been able to suggest a solution that would address the issue. All three have recommended very different solutions (all requiring orthodontics but only to address my alignment and other relapse issues on the bottom etc). I am happy to undergo orthodontics again and am willing to pay anything to get this sorted - but need the upper lip/teeth issue addressed mainly too ....and as yet haven't found a doctor who has been able to crack this code....

#10 Post by **drrick** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:46 am

Let tells me it is an even odder situation.

Perhaps a visit with an oral surgeon or even a plastic surgeon is in order.

#11 Post by **hk123** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:53 am

Appreciate the advice. But my gut instinct tells me that there still may be another way of solving this. If there wasn't any trauma, if this isn't congenital - and all comes down to a few weeks with that expansion device - then there must surely be non surgical options available.

I wouldn't mind at all going down a route that required 12months or even 18 months of some orthodontics but surgery wouldn't be the first option....

#12 Post by **drrick** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:11 am

I think it IS congenital or you just never noticed your lip posture before since you werent looking as closely at your mouth before your expander relative to after.

Do you have pics from before and after your expander you can compare?
It seems very odd to get such a changes from a few weeks of nightime wear from an expander. Especially without it being surgically assisted and without retention. Also since the changes are generally made in the posterior portion of the mouth not the anterior. It just doesnt add up.

Another thing you may want to check for a neurologic problem that is causing your muscles not to fire thus not elevating the lip proerly during your smile (or conversely hyeractive muscles on the side (botox could help this))

Good luck.

#13 Post by **hk123** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:25 am

Thanks. If there are any cases for orthodontic mysteries in the world, I should indeed be studied!! All my docs have said this....!

The original doc who put in the expander also acknowledged the huge difference in smile and lip positioning after the expander, and his response at the time was that perhaps as I got older I would appreciate the more pronounced top lip (as many women have thinning lips when they age)...and he said that some ladies would kill for a top lip like that.....

But no - it's not Angelina proportions. And ofcourse I wouldn't at all mind it - IF it didn't block my teeth which were expanded outward.

But I do think it's simple really. If a device widened the arch on top, then a device (not surgery, botox etc) should be able to push back the arch....No?

#14 Post by **hk123** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:27 am

Oh and by the way I do wear permanent retainers after that round of expander/orthodontics in 2005 - still have it on.

#15 Post by **drrick** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:43 am

Were your front teeth moved too?

Then we are not talking expander it is another appliance (may have an expander component but trying to do more than just laterally expand)

A permanent retainer in the front will not maintain posterior expansion.
Sounds like you had anterior tooth movement performed which is a whole different ball game than what you are describing above.

You could always have your splints removed and let them relapse if you that unhappy with your appearance now.
The teeth may be crowded/retruded again but maybe your lip will return.

You are just going to have to find a doc who can actually look at you and help you out. Ideally getting your initial records would help immesely as well.