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Hi guys,
I went in for my herbst removal today and I know it was never going to be a plesant experience but my ortho seems to forget I am a person not a machine. He managed to slip with his drill while he was drilling it off and drilled a really deep hole under my tongue (about 3mm). He then shouted at me for moving my tongue- where he drilled is the lowest part of your tongue and it can't be moved). I was in complete shock after and keep crying. It hurts so much and I can't eat without food going in it and it stinging like mad. I don't know what to do. I have lost complete faith in him and don't want to go back. He didnt even apologise
This isn't the first thing I have been unhappy with- on a previous apt he started squirting the water hose thing in my mouth way before the nurse with ready with the suction thing and I started choking on the water.
Also I never know what is going on in my treatment. Like today I was excited about getting the herbst out and then he puts in elastics which I never knew would be part of my treatment. I am litterally clueless about what will be next.
I think the main reason I have not complained before is because I am being treated as an NHS patient so the treatment is free. I am however starting to think it would be worth paying and going private as this man has no bedside manner at all. He is just plain mean and I always come away feeling battered and bruised. Don't get me wrong I know a bit of pulling about is going to happen but I come out very swollen after most appointments.
What would you do? Should I complain (baring in mind I may have him treating me for another year+). Shoudl I look into going private or is this a bad idea 8 months into treatment? Greatful for your views
I live in the US so I am not sure of the laws in England, but I would file a formal compliant with NHS and ask them for another orthodontis. If what you are saying is 100% true, this is not acceptable anywhere. This man is treating you like an animal. If you have to pay for better treatment I would. Good luck!
Braces on July 31, 2010
Braces off November 1, 2011
WOW, that's horrible. I have heard of doctors with a lack of empathy, which is often due to arrogance, continue to treat people badly because they have been put up on a "pedestal". Should the fact that his payment...YES, he is being paid!...is not coming directly from your pocket allow him to treat you this way? You should try to reason with him and establish a relationship with him. It may be that he is used to treating adolescents who don't ask questions and doesn't realize that you are interested in your treatment. As far as being rough, perhaps you could ask him to warn you when something is going to hurt so that you could be prepared (this might make him more conscious of the pain he is about to inflict.). He has poor "bedside manner" which may not have been taught very well in school. You can not change him alone but perhaps if your conversation is overheard by his staff they may be of assistance (beleive me, if the doctor works this way with everyone the staff are aware of this abnormality and might offer you suggestions as to how to deal with it). If after trying to clear the air you get no results then find a new ortho.
You should file a complaint as soon as possible. Then you should see if you can switch to a different ortho, but still have it be on NHS. If you can't do that then it would be worth it to go private. You have quite a while left and its not worth it to be crying and in pain (more than average) after every appointment. I would have went off on him for being so abusive. I feel bad for any children that aren't able to stand up to him.
29 years old
2-18-10 baby canine pulled
3-15-10 got braces
12-22-11 Moving-SO EXCITED!!
1-2-12 Meet new Ortho
1-5-12 Begin finishing treatment
3-5-12 Canine Implants...dun dun dunnnnn
4-9-12 Deband!
I had braces for Two Years and TwentyFive Days
There should not be any problem going private if you have the money.
You can also try switching orthos inside NHS itself, saying you dont feel comfortable with the current ortho. Once you switch, you can and should lodge a formal complaint.
Think of the pain to future patients you will be standing up against.
BTW, I'm sorry about your experience, and no its not acceptable behavior for a doc.
What would you do? Should I complain (baring in mind I may have him treating me for another year+). Shoudl I look into going private or is this a bad idea 8 months into treatment? Greatful for your views
The first thing I would do is try to talk to the ortho. I don't know how old you are, but maybe take a parent with you. Call and make an appointment, tell them you have a serious concern. Let him know your concerns and if he doesn't respond in a way that you feel is appropriate, then take further action. Maybe he is unaware of his actions, maybe because he is like that with everyone and you might be the first one to say something. Maybe you can try to talk to other patients, see if they are receiving the same treatment.
I would be real careful before filing a compliant, try to discuss the issue with the ortho first.
You've received all great advice so far! I just wanted to say I am sorry for what you have gone through. That is beyond unacceptable and nobody should go through that. I agree that you should try to switch and find another dr, whether through NHS or private if you can afford to do so, and lodge a complaint! Let us know what you decide!
Braced September 23, 2010 Debraced February 20, 2014 Estimated Treatment Time: 24 months Actual Treatment Time: 41 months
im sorry to hear this. my advice: file a complaint, i would write a letter to the NHS explaining with great detail how you were treated by this orthodontist. your tratment being free is completely unrelated to how you are treated. you are a human being and deserved to be treated in the same way as any other pt regardless of income. good luck and keep your head up high!
Thank you so much for all the replies. I am still feeling pretty shaky this morning. I am quite surprised at myself because I am usually a bit tougher then this.
I have decided I am going to go in and ask if they will switch me to the other orthodontist who works at the practice.
My trouble is I am the least assertive person and I am not good at complaining despite knowing the way I have been treated is completely wrong. I may speak to the dental nurse to tell her how I feel because she is really lovely.
Ashesgap- I have been thinking the same thing that I feel really bad for the poor children he treats.
Snowglobe- I am 25 so really should be able to stand up for myself. My mum has offered to come with me to speak to the Orthodontist but I feel a little silly brining a parent at my age.
I will try and pluck up the courage and go and speak to him/ the dental nurse. Thank you all for your encouragement
I wish you the best of luck. Another idea is maybe you could call the office manager, or the dental nurse if you're most comfortable with her, though the request would likely have to go through the office manager. If you are nervous about talking to them, calling and speaking with them over the phone may make it easier for you, rather than you talking to them on "their turf". Let us know how it goes for you!
Braced September 23, 2010 Debraced February 20, 2014 Estimated Treatment Time: 24 months Actual Treatment Time: 41 months
wow congrats on getting your herbst out....how is the final effect??? your ortho does sound like a t**t and yeh I would complain or ask to change orthos...just cos its nhs that doesnt give them the right not to explain treatment to you or to treat you humanely!!!!!
i'd be interested to know how the rest of your herbst treatment went? i just had mine put in yesterday....the pain is intense, it doesnt hurt in my jaw just my teeth but i now have a completly open bite apart from the front two teeth, so cant eat anything that isn't complete baby food/mush!!! and my lower jaw is pushed so far forward i now look like i have an underbite...honestly it looks horrific did u say that your face looked better after the first week??? i really hope so cos i have to go back to uni next week and i really dont want to look like this!!!
hope that your treatment is having good results so far despite your bully of an orthodontist?! ally xx
Sorry it has taken so long for me to reply! I am pretty pleased with the final results of the herbst. I hated my face shape when they first put it in and it took a few weeks or more for me to get use to the new look. I think alot of the initial negative changes were due to swelling so that all settled down after a week or so.
I think my overjet before the herbst was about 11mm and now It is maybe 1mm which i think is just teeth positioning. My side profile looks much better and front on I don't think the difference is that noticable anymore- maybe slightly better if anything. I hated the change at first though so maybe it just takes a while to adjust to the new look and kind of relearning to smile without it looking all jaw and chin!
I might try uploading some pics at some point to show the difference..
To update the rest of you on the Ortho story- I have been given a new ortho (still nhs) who I am due to meet tomorrow for the first time. I am a little nervous but hopefully anyone will be an improvement on the last grumpy, mean chap! Hoorah!
hey thanks for the reply...i hope things are going better with the new ortho now??
ive had my herbst for 2 months now and although i hate the way it looks when i smile, i have to say the effect on my teeth has been amazing so really pleased in that respect. my back teeth all touch now as well which is a relief!!
the one problem that i do have now is intense pain in my left jaw joint...its not constant but when i open my mouth there is pain and stiffness on the left side and if i bite down its so painful i cant actually bite down as hard as i would normally be able to. it also hurts on pressing on the joint with my fingers. the right side is completly fine with no pain whatsoever!! ive had this pretty much for the past 4-5 weeks and it seems to be getting worse if anything...
i mentioned to my ortho last time i visited and although he seems concerned, he doesnt really know if its normal or not as im the first person he has treated with a herbst!! i think he may x-ray the joints next time i go to see if there is any degeneration of the joints!! but i just wondered if you had any similar problems with your herbst because of the fact it is all on one side does make me think something is not right....which is a shame cause id actually be a bit gutted if i had to stop treatment now with potentially only 5 months or so left and it looks like giving a good result at the end!!!
The new ortho is really nice and so gentle! She actually talks to me and explains parts of my treatment! This is great- makes me realise just how bad the last one was! Thanks for asking.
I'm sorry to hear you are having bad joint pain one side. Has this got any better since you last posted? I didn't really have any jaw pain accept for some soreness and aching after adjustments. My pain was more the metal caps on the teeth digging into my gums. I would definately get the ortho to do an xray to check it out as I don't think this is normal.
Since having the herbst remove I do sometimes get an achy jaw (both sides but worse on the left). It is almost like I don't know where my bite should be and I can't relax my jaw. I was going to bring this up with the ortho at the next appointment becuase I was a little concerned this isn't right/ might get worse. It is fine until I think about it and the for some reason I don't know where my teeth naturally bite together and my jaw aches.
I have had no xray since having the herbst out. Does anyone know if I should have had one to check the jaw joint look normal?
hey thanks4 your reply...is interesting to hear and of course there aren't many ppl with experience of this!! since the last post i have actually had my herbst removed....the pain got ALOT worse and my ortho decided to remove it, he seemed to think at the time that the joint was just overstretched and on removal of the herbst would get better almost immediately and then he could put it back in when it had settled down. Well what actually happened was the pain got worse...i was on co-codamol and clutching a hot water bottle to my face because of the pain!!!!!! I also developed clicking in my jaw which is much louder and more noticeable than the click i was told i had previously been told i had which i was not really aware of. So next meeting with the ortho he has told me i have a displaced disc in my jaw but it should resolve by itself....(and then he wants to put the herbst back in!!!!) well its now been out for 4 weeks i think and although the pain is considerably better i still have some pain on opening my mouth too fast or too wide or when pushing my lower jaw forwards. in addition i still have the click when eating!! so in short i think it is resolving but whether i will be left with any long term clicking etc i dont know yet. as you may be able to guess i am now quite reluctant to have the herbst back in...........from what i have heard there are people with experiences of having ongoing problems with the jaw joints after removal. im seeing my ortho today and until then dont actually know if he is still keen to put them back in anyway on hearing that i am still having some problems but.....it does leave me with a bit of a dilemma as if i dont have the herbst do i live with the overjet or opt for surgery (really not that keen!!!)?!
