Desperate! Please Help-Q about Switching Orthos and Refund

[hopeful2011]

This is kind of long post, but please read it and respond if you have time to go through it! I don't know many people with braces so anyone's feedback would be really helpful.

Despite the title of this topic, I must start out by saying the person I thought was my "ortho" is not an orthodontist at all. After doing a little research as a result of my last appointment (will give details later), I found out his credential was only a 6-8 week course with continuing education...He lists on his site that he is a gradaute of the "prestigious" Gp Academy of Orthodontics and I mistook this for real degree. I am so mad at myself for not catching this sooner because there was no idea I would have gone to him if I knew he was not board certified! But it is what is and I just need to figure out what to do from her on out

I will have been in braces for two years this February, and at my last appoint, he told me--only because I asked why they bonded my molars with cement--what they were trying to accomplish. He tells me he has been working with a team of "specialists" on my case because he has been fighting a losing battle with my lower teeth.

He told me he has been trying to fix my cross-bite, as a tooth problem but after consulting with others, he figures it is actually my jaw! He says he will continue to consult with a "specialist" and at this point is "just taking orders." He may decide to send me to this "specialist" for a few appointments or transfer me to him if he feels like my issue is beyond him, but for now he wants to see how things go. When I asked him how much longer he thinks I have for treatment he said he had absolutely no clue and it was one of those things he just can't say. He just said you and I will be getting really close over the next year... He also claims that there will be no extra costs required from me on my end?

I interpret his statements as 1) him not knowing what he is doing 2) him already wasting my time and 3) him wasting even more time because he doesn't have direct knowledge of what he is doing and I am a sort of learning experience/lab rat for him.

I would love any general advise about this situation.

1) If you were in my shoes, would you look into switching?
2) How do people go about requesting refunds in the event of a switch? I paid in full within 18 months to the tune of $5200, and there is nothing in the contract about transfers. I am a student and saved up for this for over a year so cost is an issue because I know I'll have to pay more at a new ortho :(
3) What is the minimum I should expect to pay if I transfer to a new ortho?

I have set up a few consultations just to get a fresh perspective on what has been going on.

Thanks in advance,
hopeful

[Ellebraced]

Wow that sucks. I think that is all our fears. When we trust that someone knows what they are doing that they can fix our teeth.

I personally have no idea about transfers or anything but I would see if you could get a free consultation with another ortho or 2 in your area. Get their opinions and then discuss it with your dentist.

OR

Maybe be honest with your dentist and let him know your concerns and ask him to let you see a specialist so that you can be assured he is on the right track. Tell him maybe your teeth were a bit more complicated then he first thought and you think that a 2nd opinion is needed for your assurance. Maybe not blaming him so he would be defensive but more like it's the teeth that were more complicated then thought for his expertise.


3rd option ( I THINK) Not sure where you live but in Canada I believe there is a Dental Association that you can complain to if you have concerns about your treatment BUT I think this would be the last option after you have tried everything else. I really don't know much about this but maybe do a search on the internet. **** Again I really don't know about this but I think there is something out there **

GOOD LUCK!!! Let us know what happens, Hopefully some of the Orthos on this site can give you better advice.

This is probably one of the biggest personal investments any of us will ever make and we expect a quality outcome.

Elle

[plugnickel69]

I recommend you immediately seek the services of a lawyer. One call could solve the problem for you, especially since your ortho has already indicated further treatment even by the "specialist" will be at no cost to you. It's cheaper for him to agree to pay for proper treatment from a certified orth than to fight a losing lawsuit. The attorney cost should be minimal, you should be able to get a no cost consult, and you'll have the piece of mind that you have someone working for you and protecting you. And since this guy has been treating you unsuccessfully for two years, you may very well have grounds for a lawsuit and may be able to recover money for pain and suffering.

My guess is the lawyer will advise you to seek other orthodontic consult as well.

Please seek professional assistance. It will be cheaper in the long run even if it costs you upfront. Please don't go this alone. Best of luck to you!

[bbsadmin]

Sounds to me like you may need to sue to get your money back, if you can prove real misrepresentation.

You should have a frank conversation with your dentist and tell him your concerns and see if he will be willing to send you to a real orthodontist to finish the work for free. If he agrees to that, then your problem will be solved. However, you should do some research on THAT orthodontist first, to make sure it's someone you'd actually want to treat you. If you indeed have a real crossbite issue, that is usually rather complicated to fix.

If he is not willing to cooperate with you, you need to take a good long look at the contract you signed, and possibly show it to a lawyer, along with any marketing material (including what is said on his website, if he has one), to see if there is actually any misrepresentation. It seems to me that proving "misrepresentation" might be the only way for you to get your money back. It's also possible you could take the case to Small Claims Court (not sure if it qualifies; you'd need to check your local court to see).

If he doesn't agree to pay for a real orthodontist to finish the job, you can go to another orthodontist on your own to finish the work, but it will cost you more money. Usually you need to start over with a new orthodontist, because he would need to develop a new treatment plan for you -- he would be seeing you as a "new patient" even though you already have braces. He may also need to take new x-rays and molds, and those would not be free.

However, something that IS usually free is a consultation. You may want to at least get a consultation with a few real board-certified orthodontists in your area to get some other opinions on what is going on in your mouth.

I'm sorry you've gone through this. I wish you the best of luck in resolving your situation!

[hopeful2011]

Thanks so much to all of you for taking the time to respond. The responses are all very helpful. I definitely need to have a serious conversation with my dentist, but either way at this point I am leading towards going elsewhere--unless he can hand me over to a new ortho for free. If I am lucky and he has been consulting with an orthodontist, I will definitely research him as suggested.

But...I suspect his "specialist" is not an orthodontic either. I looked at the website for the 'Academy of Gp Orthodontics' and none of their instructors seem to be formally trained in orthodontics. I was reading some of their material online and it seems like his consultation with "specialists" simply meant he was taking advantage of his membership by talking with other non-ortho Gp Academy members to get feedback about my case. Realizing that his instructors and specialist consultants are probably not trained orthos either finally brought on the tears. I don't know how far he/they are in the dark with my case and how much precious time they have wasted.

I looked at his website, and he does say he provides orthodontic treatment "in the comfort of a dentist's office." He doesn't call himself an orthodontist, but a cosmetic dentist who provides orthodontic treatment. This plus the whole academy thing is what threw me off, but I am not sure how strong a case can me made for misrepresentation?

In regards to the payment, his office has like a 22% interest rate if it is not paid off within 18 months, so this is why I paid early? Shouldn't I be entitled to something back if he doesn't finish? I should at least get the cost of retainers back, and he has not completed my treatment...He has an incentive to give me nothing, but I feel it is only fair I get some sort of refund

[hopeful2011]

Also, a little more about my case...I can't say I have had no progress because some things have changed. I am just worried he doesn't know--and hasn't known--how to address certain issues for sometime.

There have been some hiccups along the way, but there has been some progress. I had a big gap btwn my front teeth, and a few small spaces between my bottom teeth. He extracted 2 bicuspids from the top, and 2 from the bottom. I still have my wisdom teeth.

I have a small extraction space left on the top, but the other three are closed. The gap btwn my front teeth has been gone although it is opening a bit because of them playing with my arch/cross-bite. The spaces between my bottom teeth have gone back and forth between being closed and open...now they are open and the teeth are kind of crooked. I hope this info helps.

I am also concerned that he didn't tell me he was confused about case earlier. He wouldn't have mentioned anything at all if I hadn't asked a question and I have no definite way of knowing the length of time he has been confused. Don't dentists have a duty to inform the patient and tell them to consult someone else if they are not able to peform the service to the level of a trained specialist?

[bbsadmin]

Unfortunately, there are too many dentists who think they can perform orthodontic work with just a few hours of extra training. We've had so many posts over the years from unhappy patients who got bad ortho work done by dentists who didn't really know what they were doing. Many times these are patients who got faulty Invisalign treatment and need to go into traditional braces with a real orthodontist.

I'm sorry that you got misled by this dentist. You need to talk with him and try to get him to admit that your case was just too complicated for him to handle. See if you can get something in writing from him. Then insist that a real, board-certified orthodontist take over this case, at no charge to you. If he is getting instruction from people who also are not board-certified orthodontists, that is not good. You need someone who understands orthodontics properly to take over your treatment.

I looked up the Academy of GP Orthodontics, and it doesn't look like any of the instructors, or the founder, are/were board certified orthodontists. The founder's bio says that he assisted an orthodontist when founding the organization. It merely looks like an organization that gives "continuing education" courses for dentists. There are a lot of those around. Many times, those type of courses are given by companies that make brackets and orthodontic appliances (for instance, if an orthodontist wanted to treat with Damon brackets, he gets training from the company that makes Damon brackets or a company associated with them). Many other types of dental organizations and private lecturers and companies also give these types of seminars.

Sometimes a dentist can do some very simple ortho work if your case is not complicated. Many dentists do that sort of thing. If it's really simple to correct, sometimes it's OK for a dentist to do it. But to take on a case that involves extractions and possibly a cross bite -- it's a shame he couldn't admit in the beginning that he was beyond his realm of knowledge. And it's a double shame that you unfortunately thought that you were seeing a dentist who had some sort of board-certified training.

Please see 2 or 3 real board-certified orthodontists and get second opinions on what needs to be done. Usually they can do this for free.

Please keep us in the loop and continue to post updates on your situation.

[plugnickel69]

Again, I think you should consult at attorney who can give you good legal advice on how best to proceed.

[bbsadmin]

Again, I think you should consult at attorney who can give you good legal advice on how best to proceed.

Yes, I agree with that, too, especially if he refuses to help you fix the situation properly.

[BracketRacket]

I'm sorry you're having troubles. Certainly a second opinion or two couldn't hurt.

I'm not sure I understand why people are discussing legal actions, though -- from what you describe, it sounds like his "qualifications" were outlined correctly on his website. Whether he should have taken on your case in the first place comes down to a judgement call, and if he hasn't done any harm to your or left you with lasting issues, I'm not sure what good suing would do, especially since it sounds like you haven't even spoken to him yet to go over your options moving forward. At that point, if you are unhappy with what he is offering, then I could see possibly looking into your options, but it seems premature to me.

Hopefully you and he can come to an amicable solution and you end up with the results you desire.

[plugnickel69]

In response to BracketRacket, speaking to a lawyer doesn't constitute legal action, it just helps to inform you of your rights, the possible legal actions, and if the lawyer is a good one, he or she will suggest non-legal solutions as a first step. To me, knowledge is power, and if I have a problem I want to know as much as I can to solve it in the best possible way; the same reason so many of us visit and communicate on ArchWired. Thank you Lynn!

[DrJasonKTam]

Most licensing bodies have guidelines against general dentists representing themselves as specialists. However, there are many grey areas, including general dentists that have taken continuing education courses on orthodontics. Many of these organizations have names that may fool the general public into thinking that someone is a specialist. In your case, the GP in the title likely stands for General Practitioner.

Some examples are the International Association for Orthodontics, FORCE Orthodontics (Faculte for Orthodontic Research and Continuing Education), American Orthodontic Society, etc. There are not specialty organizations.

In searching for orthodontists, you should be looking for terminology like "specialist", board certified orthodontist, and that they have graduated from an accredited graduate orthodontic program. In general, orthodontists do not do anything other than orthodontics, such as cleanings, extractions, fillings, with rare exceptions.

The best case scenario is that you have your work completed by an orthodontist at the expense of the general dentist. In most jurisdictions, there is very little in "pain and suffering" with orthodontics. Before speaking to your lawyer, you may want to communicate all of these issues with your dentist, and let him know you would like treatment completed by an orthodontist. Unfortunately, we have all too often seen patients come in with orthodontic treatment from general dentists. In some cases, the dentists have actually paid us a full treatment fee on behalf of the patients in order for us to restart treatment.

Good luck!

[tsmurfenator]

I'm confused,
I thought in US one had to have specific orthodontist certification in order to practice, and general dentists were not properly licensed for orthodontics.

Is this not correct?

[drrick]

No that is not correct.

Any GP can perform any 'specialty' procedure whether it be orthodontics, endodontics, oral surgery, periodontics, prosthodontics, etc. A GP cannot call himself a specialist if he is not one. Most often the doc states that he is a GP in your informed consent you sign prior to treatment as well.

I think you should express your concerns with your current doc to see if an amicable solution can be met. Doubtful a case can be won legally here and will cost alot of money (expert witness, lawyer expenses and fees (even though delayed))

FWIW, I am a GP who does ortho almost exclusively. I have retreated cases from both orthodontists and GP's.
It isnt a one way street by any means.

[hopeful2011]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks again for all your responses. I have found encouragement as well as useful information in all of them. Hopefully there can be an amicable and fair resolution to this issue so things don't have to get ugly. There is nothing in my contract stating that he is a general practitioner...

Thanks Dr Tam for clearing things up in terms of what dentists vs. orthos should perform. My guess is that a lot of people, like me go to dentists who provide orthodontic services on the assumption that all dentists with orthodontic work have the same training. I can't tell you how many family members and friends I've spoken to that are absolutely shocked that dentists can take on orthodontic work (and other special cases) with minimal training. I don't know many people whom if they knew the difference would go to a general practitioner--as opposed to an ortho--if they had the choice. I am finding that the amount he charged me is similar to what board certified orthodontists in my area charged. (sigh) Oh well, it is water under the bridge now.