Would you be happy with these teeth?

[lilone]

I think it is very clear too. When talking about your overbite, though, I think you should mention that you still have a 100% overbite after 5 years, not just that it's huge. It actually can't really get any bigger since your top teeth fully cover your bottoms. This is a real dental problem and often requires braces even when teeth are straight.

Do you have a before picture, by chance? Maybe your case was incredibly complicated but I have to be honest...I think that you should go somewhere else for a second opinion. I know I'm not an expert, but ortho's always say that you shouldn't tilt teeth too much because it will cause gum and bone problems in the future. You didn't have tilted lowers to start and he has put a pretty mean lean on them. I can imagine that there may be scenarios where that might be necessary briefly during treatment but nearly 5 years on? The more I think about the time you have been in braces, the less acceptable this is. I strongly suggest you pay for a second opinion. You don't even need to tell your ortho. Just have a consultation, explain your concerns and ask the new ortho where things stand and how long they would think it would be to correct these issues. Then you know if what your own ortho is saying meshes even slightly or if he is out of his depth and afraid to tell you. Also, if you haven't had a pan xray recently, request one to make sure your roots are still in good shape after such a long time in braces. I'm sure they are fine but it's important to check to avoid resorption issues.

Was it recommended that you get surgery and you chose not to? That is one reason a case may be more complicated and results might be somewhat compromised.

[kookoo80]

I agree, the letter is clear and to the point. Have you read what you signed for, eg can you quote from the initial contract? Good luck

[sharp]

Hi everyone. He has written back to my letter. There are a few things that I don't understand so could someone knowledgable please help me here.

As we have discussed on a previous occasion, you had a severe malocclusion with a deep overbite. The overbite had a skeletal component, i.e associated wih a low face height. The overbite in adults does take longer time to treat because there is no growth to assist the process. Overbites wih skeletal components may not be fully correctable without adjunctive jaw surgery. Overbite correction without surgery involves either intruding anterior teeth or extruding posterior teeth. So far we have been trying to intrude your lower incisors and extrude the molars. This has worked to some extenet, however not completely. I would like you to have some x-rays done before your next visit so I can objectively assess the overbite correction, and to plan for future treatment corrections.

What do you think of this?
And what does extruding and intruding mean?
I had the x-rays yesterday (3rd time).

[Ruby Tuesday]

Congrats on receiving a reply. I would be pleased with this reply as he is not dismissing your concerns but has explained what he is trying to do.

Intruding means to push in, like to push your teeth further in. To extruct mean to bring out, so to sort of pull the teeth out a bit more.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[lilone]

I'm glad that he replied. Perhaps it is a very complex skeletal case that you have. I would have thought you could get some correction, at least, but I'm not qualified to have an opinion about that. Still, he speaks as though there has been some success with the deep bite but it's hard to imagine it being possible to be much deeper than it is right now. I personally would still have reservations for the following reasons. 1. It seems he had not been planning to address the overbite problem until you brought it up because he had already informed you the braces would be coming off next visit. 2. Unless you only put up a small portion of his letter, he has failed to address the numerous other issues you brought up (the tilt, the canine, the incisor, etc.) all of which he must have been planning to leave as is if he was ready to take them off.

Did you have a bite plate or any appliance to help with the deep bite or does he feel this won't work for you? Did you know ahead of time that you would be aiming for a compromised result?

Let us know what happens next and whether or not you decide to get a second opinion:)

Lil

P.S. I am just curious about something in his letter. Being a lay person I have no idea about the physics of orthodontics but if he is wanting to correct the overbite doesn't it seem like intruding the lowers alone would be pointless? The uppers are covering them fully so it doesn't matter how much they are pushed downward into the bone unless you are also intruding the uppers, right? Or is he doing both? Here is a deep bite video from the internet that shows a bite plate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTQcR8lc ... re=related

[diegorgeous]

I think you should get a second opinion from another/or other orthos and demand your money back??
5 years is way too long and the fact that he even tipped your bottom teeth so much inwards is a little strange.
And why did linguals fail? it's seems as though the ortho may not be highly skilled?? . Linguals should be able to do what labial braces can with an ortho thats skilled to use linguals.
If it were me, i'd definitely demand my money back. At least a portion of it. because with braces treatment, your bite as well as teeth should be fixed not just one . Unless he told you from start that surgery was the only way to fix it completely

[drgnchsr36]

Just from looking at the pictures, it looks like you have a deep bite issue. If you look at my pictures, they're pretty similar.. I have a 100% deep bite and it's the ONLY reason why I got braces since they could cause further harm to my teeth later down the line. It's not cosmetic, it's a functional issue. I would talk to your ortho that you need to get this fixed. It may mean getting ceramic on top.. I still have yet to get my bottom braces on since there's no space for them. I'm supposed to get them next month, but will either need the build ups or a bite plate to keep my bite from completely closing so I don't bite off any brackets. Definitely bring it up though and see what they say.

[Dressy1]

[quote="sharp"]Hi everyone. He has written back to my letter. There are a few things that I don't understand so could someone knowledgable please help me here.

[i]As we have discussed on a previous occasion, you had a severe malocclusion with a deep overbite. The overbite had a skeletal component, i.e associated wih a low face height. The overbite in adults does take longer time to treat because there is no growth to assist the process. Overbites wih skeletal components may not be fully correctable without adjunctive jaw surgery. Overbite correction without surgery involves either intruding anterior teeth or extruding posterior teeth. [b]So far we have been trying to intrude your lower incisors and extrude the molars[/b]. This has worked to some extenet, however not completely. I would like you to have some x-rays done before your next visit so I can objectively assess the overbite correction, and to plan for future treatment corrections. [/i]

What do you think of this?
And what does extruding and intruding mean?
I had the x-rays yesterday (3rd time).[/quote]
He meant that he tried to open your bite by pulling out your molars.

[Dressy1]

Objectively speaking,
even if he cannot fix the deep bite, still I think your upper teeth are not leveled. It looks like one side is lower then the other. I would be very upset. I can hardly picture though, how he can fix it with ligual brackets.
I would definitely ask for a second oppinion regarding the nature of your deep bite. Is it really sceletal?

[houseofcash]

i have the same problem, my bottom teeth go right behind my top teeth, this was cause by my lower jaw stopped growing as a kid/teenager. my ortho said there is no way to properly fix my teeth without jaw surgery. i just started this process last month. it will take a min 2 years to a max of 3 years to correct this.

even if he did get your teeth straight? once he takes your braces off your lower teeth will just push your top teeth out again. i cant beleive he would put you through 5 years for nothing. thats crazy, but on a good note your teeth look to be straight enough to proceed to a jaw surgery

also once all is done i would request some shaping of your teeth. some look to be out of shape and some seam to large for your mouth. IMO

House

[Minerva]

The ortho. should have mentioned the surgery way

sooner and let you decide what to do since what he is

doing sounds like camouflage and not actual correction

Am I right?

[ShainaMichelle]

Sharp I hope everything works out for you. The letter seems good enough.. Well explained

[sharp]

Well

I've gone to another orthodontist, he seems to know what he's doing.

I need normal front braces top and bottom for 14 months, then upper and lower jaw surgery.

I think that's my only hope.

I talked to my current ortho about a full refund. He said he would "get some advice about that" and get back to me.

Everyone, what is the best way to make sure I get my money back? What he has done to me is a disgrace.

[Huggypillow]

Hi Sharp,

I would take all your photos to a Lawyer and ask them what a " expected reasonable outcome " would be for a case there are lawyers out there that do dental/surgical cases.

1. within the 5 years of treatment your ortho should have discussed surgical option more than once with you, not just saying " oh remember 5 years ago I told you that" given that most people can't remember conversations a year ago.

2. orthos around the country have treated way more complex cases than yours and in less than 5 years.

3. I am an adult and I had a deep bite and mine is getting corrected, if he knew that you would'nt be able to get a perfectially desired result without surgery he should have spoken up, even scheduled you a consult with a surgen to confirm his treatment discussion, in my opinion this guy is well kinda asking for some sort of litigation.

I would get as much information as you can from either a lawyer and another orthodontist and then you will be prepared when you next go back, If it were me I would want to get my money back and start treatment with a new orthodontist. Once people mention the word "lawyer" they usually just pay up because it's cheaper than court and paying for a lawyer.

Dont feel bad your not the first person who has sort refunds from Dr's. Just to reinforce how you feel you have ligitimate concerns, and you are not imagining it.

Best of luck with everything.

[sharp]

he's offered me a 30% refund....

what a joke!!!!!

I will fight this until my dying breath.

Any suggestions?