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kreyFL wrote:If you were my Mama...I would be so upset for you. The pictures were kinda shocking. I can see how beautiful your smile is going to be...once the gaps close and it gets straightened out but it does seem drastic right now.
I think as a patient with orthos we have a tendency to be understanding of their vagueness...atleast I am. I almost expect to get the 'no answer answer' from my ortho with every question I ask. However, I know that if I got frustrated or upset at any time, he would be very understanding of that and do what was necessary to make me feel at ease. I think a second opinion is a good idea...however, I do see the light at the end of the tunnel here and want you to just keep your head up and stay positive. I would ask - on your next visit - to speak in private before you go to sit in the chair. Maybe bring a little list of your concerns or a print out of your post. Asking for a de-brace date is one thing - asking for a clear understanding of what is going on and what the progress plan is from here on out is another and perfectly acceptable. As a consumer, you have that right. The receding gum does concern me...and if that was happening to me, I would probably get in with my dentist BEFORE my next ortho appointment - just to have a clear idea of what he thinks is going on from a hygiene, gum loss, bone loss stand point. I dont think there is any knee jerk reaction needed...but I do think you're gonna have to speak up loud and clear about your fear and -to be blunt- anger at this point. I would also not accept anyone, from this point forward, other than your ortho. Good luck hun - keep us posted!
kreyFL thank you for your very kind words and positive encouragement. I really appreciate it.
Regarding the receding gum, my dentist (with whom I have an excellent relationship) has been keeping a close eye on it. I go to the dentist every 3 months for cleanings and checkups. I had a tendency for excessive tartar buildup before braces but since I got my braces on two years ago, my dentist says my teeth & gums are actually healthier than ever, due to the fact that they are no longer crowded and therefore easier to keep clean. Although I had good dental hygiene habits before braces, it's true I'm even more conscientious about brushing, flossing, cleaning etc. even more so now. I feel good about that. But I am upset that the gum on the upper right tooth, which was slightly receded before braces, has become even more receded since braces. I've mentioned this to my ortho, but he brushed it off as a pre-existing condition, even though it was exacerbated by the braces. I feel there's not much more I can do at this point than have my dentist keep a close eye on it, which he has been doing. Thoughts?
So you think I should ask to speak to my ortho privately before I even get in the chair? That's something to think about. I was originally planning to just go to my appointment as usual and see what he says first before asking for the private talk. I guess I'm still hoping he'll come through for me this one last time. Hope springs eternal.
BracedSurgeryStudent wrote:WOW! That is shocking. No offense but might I ask "What is WRONG with your orthodontist?" At my place, no matter how busy the ortho is, the assistant wont touch me aside from taking the wires off to change my colours Even if it means we have to wait an hour, then we wait, no biggy. AND Kathy wont schedule me for an appointment on a date she knows the orthodontist isnt in or is on vacation.
I honestly think you need to go to the Office Manager about that, bring in the pictures as well and present your story. Or, you can also get a second opinion if you life. But that looks unacceptable. I mean you didn't even have gaps at ALL in that first picture.
Also i wanted to ask if you flossed on a regular basis. Because it could also be that you are forming periodontis and that is the reason for the receeding gum line and the triangles and spacing. I know because my family members had it and presented as such and since it seems as though your orthodontist is kind of neglectful it would not hurt to go for a Periodontic exam with a cleaning and see what they say and if I am wrong you can do what I said above.
Best of luck.
Thank you BracedSurgeryStudent. See my reply to kreyFL regarding the receding gum line, dental check-ups, dental hygiene, etc. Like most adults who have braces, I'm pretty compulsive when it comes to brushing, flossing, and in general keeping my teeth clean.
CountessDeSangre wrote:Second opinion, right away. This is unacceptable to me and I would not sit and wait for that first orthodontist to make some dental magic that may or may not even happen.
Thank you CountessDeSangre. I appreciate your no-nonsense approach. I have gotten the names of two other orthos who come highly recommended and will make appointments for 2nd & 3rd opinions on Monday (they are both closed on Friday). At the same time I will see what my ortho says/does at my appointment next Thurs., but I feel better already having gotten honest feedback and specific advice from everyone here.
Hey, yeah I agree with you on being really complulsive on the cleaning. I floss nonstop and use my flouride special braces mouth rinse I use an electronic toothbrush, Colgate Total and brush after eating stuff that doesnt get stuck in the braces.
My ortho told me she would not even put the braces on me unless she knew i had NO preexisting disease or anything. She said she did not want to mask anything with the braces that once the braces could come off there would be worse damage or the teeth would fall out etc. So I had to go to a periodontist for a full workup on me. Luckily I just had swollen gums due to not having a checkup in 3 years time. I'm sure you should go see a periodontist alongside the dentist who will better be able to let you know.
I would definitely ask to speak before the check up begins. My thought process is "Same action, same result". I think there needs to be common ground/communication established before you go through yet another appointment and leave scratching your head. This ortho has proven to "brush off" or disregard what you say or politely/hesitantly bring up during the actual visit and I fear that will happen yet again. I think looking him in the eye, as a person - not a patient - will do wonders...
I am not quite sure about the receding gum line. I had a similar issue on a lower tooth and my dentist had me switch to an electric toothbrush because I was brushing too hard and aggressive with a manual one. I have had improvement since doing so. I know they have gum grafting (think of skin grafts but for the gums) that can be used in certain situations. I do not know if bonding or a crown would be enough for that tooth...
One thing that irks me is, with the receding gum and the ortho calling it an "existing condition" I feel, even more so, that he should be the one monitoring your progress on every visit. Abnormal tooth position is most definitely a cause for receding gum line and him not monitoring that tooth, which he is responsible for moving, on every visit isn't okay.
I think you are headed in the right direction, but I think you are also going to have to be the one to change the way the wheels are turning with this ortho.....politely, of course
What does you general dentist think is causing your receding gum? The receding gum looks to me like it's caused by periodontitis. I agree with some of others here who suggest seeking an opinion from a Periodontist. I suffer with periodontis myself, so decided to visit a Periodontist for an opinion and assessment while undergoing my orthodontic treatment. In my experience General dentists and their hygienists don't always recognise and thoroughly treat periodontitis. The periodontist I went to see did root planing to treat mine, which is more thorough hygiene treatment than scaling.
If you had dental XRays before you began your orthodontic treatment they could take some new ones to see whether your orthodontics has affected bone levels.
Did you have overcrowding at the top, was that why they removed two top teeth? It is possible that removal of the top teeth has made your bite worse, which can also accelerate bone loss and gum recession.
I would definitely ask to speak before the check up begins. My thought process is "Same action, same result". I think there needs to be common ground/communication established before you go through yet another appointment and leave scratching your head. This ortho has proven to "brush off" or disregard what you say or politely/hesitantly bring up during the actual visit and I fear that will happen yet again. I think looking him in the eye, as a person - not a patient - will do wonders...
I am not quite sure about the receding gum line. I had a similar issue on a lower tooth and my dentist had me switch to an electric toothbrush because I was brushing too hard and aggressive with a manual one. I have had improvement since doing so. I know they have gum grafting (think of skin grafts but for the gums) that can be used in certain situations. I do not know if bonding or a crown would be enough for that tooth...
One thing that irks me is, with the receding gum and the ortho calling it an "existing condition" I feel, even more so, that he should be the one monitoring your progress on every visit. Abnormal tooth position is most definitely a cause for receding gum line and him not monitoring that tooth, which he is responsible for moving, on every visit isn't okay.
I think you are headed in the right direction, but I think you are also going to have to be the one to change the way the wheels are turning with this ortho.....politely, of course
kreyFL you are right. I have an already scheduled appointment with my ortho on Thursday morning. I plan to call tomorrow (Monday) morning and ask if I can meet with him privately before getting in the chair that morning. I think it would be better to call ahead rather than to ask on the spot once I'm already there. This way, I am being considerate of his schedule/other patients, and he won't be able to tell me he doesn't have time if I ask in advance.
I appreciate your comments about the receding gum line. It's possible I may be brushing too hard. I am also calling my dentist to make an appointment to consult with him about that before my next cleaning, which is in January. It will also be on my list of concerns when I meet with my ortho.
Overall I find your comments very empowering and encouraging. Thank you.
Amanda6 wrote:What does you general dentist think is causing your receding gum? The receding gum looks to me like it's caused by periodontitis. I agree with some of others here who suggest seeking an opinion from a Periodontist. I suffer with periodontis myself, so decided to visit a Periodontist for an opinion and assessment while undergoing my orthodontic treatment. In my experience General dentists and their hygienists don't always recognise and thoroughly treat periodontitis. The periodontist I went to see did root planing to treat mine, which is more thorough hygiene treatment than scaling.
If you had dental XRays before you began your orthodontic treatment they could take some new ones to see whether your orthodontics has affected bone levels.
Did you have overcrowding at the top, was that why they removed two top teeth? It is possible that removal of the top teeth has made your bite worse, which can also accelerate bone loss and gum recession.
Hi Amanda6,
See my message to kreyFL regarding the receding gum line. I trust my dentist and believe he is capable of recognizing periodontal disease and would refer me to a periodontist if he thought it might be even a remote possibility. However the gum above the one tooth is still a concern and I do plan to bring this issue up again with both him and my ortho this week. Since I am also making appointments for 2nd & 3rd opinions from other orthos, the thought of finding/seeing a periodontist right now is too overwhelming. I will keep it in the back of my mind though and pursue after the New Year depending on my other consultations and what follows.
My ortho did panoramic x-rays in February or March of this year so I will also ask him to send a copy of those to my dentist. Coincidentally, the Feb/March timeframe is exactly when my orthodontic treatment began to stall. I'm beginning to wonder if there was something in the x-rays to cause my ortho to want to consciously slow things down with my treatment. If that is the case, he should have told me. This is also on my list of questions for the ortho.
Yes, I had overcrowding on both the top and bottom in addition to an overbite. My bite is the one thing that seems to have improved over the course of my orthodontic treatment.
Thank you Amanda6! By the way, did it hurt when you had the root planing?
I hope everything does work out you should definatly get some other orthodontic opinions because if the teeth are spacing out like that WITH a powerchain there issomething wrong with your orthodontist. You should get a dentist and an ortho who will work hand in hand
See my message to kreyFL regarding the receding gum line. I trust my dentist and believe he is capable of recognizing periodontal disease and would refer me to a periodontist if he thought it might be even a remote possibility. However the gum above the one tooth is still a concern and I do plan to bring this issue up again with both him and my ortho this week. Since I am also making appointments for 2nd & 3rd opinions from other orthos, the thought of finding/seeing a periodontist right now is too overwhelming. I will keep it in the back of my mind though and pursue after the New Year depending on my other consultations and what follows.
My ortho did panoramic x-rays in February or March of this year so I will also ask him to send a copy of those to my dentist. Coincidentally, the Feb/March timeframe is exactly when my orthodontic treatment began to stall. I'm beginning to wonder if there was something in the x-rays to cause my ortho to want to consciously slow things down with my treatment. If that is the case, he should have told me. This is also on my list of questions for the ortho.
Yes, I had overcrowding on both the top and bottom in addition to an overbite. My bite is the one thing that seems to have improved over the course of my orthodontic treatment.
Thank you Amanda6! By the way, did it hurt when you had the root planing?
The root planing wasn't painful as they used local anaesthetic to numb the area first.
I had to have one of my upper front incisors removed due to periodontitis as it had lost too much bone, which is why the sooner it's treated thoroughly the better. The main signs as to whether a tooth has periodontal infection are receding gums, gum which bleed with cleaning, inflamed gums around the tooth, and a gum pocket around the tooth, or any combination of these. The Periodontist I saw thoroughly checked my gum pocket depths and bleeding around all of my teeth, the pocket checking was much more thorough than any general dentist has time for, and they found pockets which a general dentist may have overlooked.
Thought I would post an update with my latest developments since everyone has been so helpful and caring.
1. I have an appointment tomorrow morning to get a second opinion from another orthodontist (who comes highly recommended by a close friend).
2. I called my current orthodontist to ask for a one-on-one, private consultation before I get in the chair at my regularly scheduled appointment later this week. He is not in the office today but the patient coordinator said that would not be a problem and she will call me back with an appointment time.
3. I had a consultation with my dentist this afternoon to discuss my concerns re: my orthodontic treatment and overall condition of my teeth & gums. He spent a good amount of time listening to my concerns, reviewing my records, evaluating me, & providing very helpful feedback. He said all my concerns regarding my orthodontic treatment are legitimate and was glad to know I will be addressing them directly with my orthodontist. He agreed that every item on my list of concerns did not seem normal orthodontic practice/procedure. He asked that I call him after I speak with the orthodontist to let him know how it went.
The biggest relief was that my dentist said my teeth and gums are in excellent health and there are absolutely no signs of periodontal disease. He said that the receding gum on my right front tooth is a concern but only for cosmetic reasons which can be addressed once my orthodontic treatment is complete. He said otherwise my teeth are exceptionally clean, there is absolutely no tartar buildup, and that my gums are completely healthy—no inflammation, no bleeding, nothing to cause him the least bit of concern.
My husband went with me on the appointment and was as happy and relieved as I was to hear this.
I am still anxious about talking to my orthodontist re: my ongoing concerns but I feel good overall that I have taken positive action today, that I've received good feedback from my dentist, and that I will be getting a second opinion tomorrow from another orthodontist.
I will keep you all posted. Thank you again for the encouragement and support.
Hey, I think that is awesome good for you Purple. Glad to know your choppers are in excellent health. Glad.
Yeah then it definatly sounds like your orthodontist isn't doing a good job, not at all. Good that you made an appointment to sit one on one with him because that is unacceptable.
So happy to hear of your success today! I didnt see your gum issue as a hygiene problem either (teeth look clean to me lol) - just concerned that the orthodontics might exasperate the issue. I am so relieved that your dentist went over everything with you, I am sure it just gives you more confidence going into your meeting with the ortho.
I am super anxious to hear what the 2nd ortho says about ortho #1's treatment thus far.
I would hate to hear that "Your ortho isnt doing it right" or that you "need to go to a new ortho" because that is a lot of stress, time, money, etc etc. I really do hope that ortho #2 says that your progress is moving forward (maybe just not in the conventional way)...if you know what I mean.
I think it is so awesome that you have a game plan with how to deal with your concerns - and even more so, that your dentist is now in the loop and wants the feedback as well. My dentist and ortho are buddies. I found out they talk about my treatment in between visits. Kinda weird lol, but also very comforting that everyone is on the same page, and this is what I wish for you as well.
Even if it means we have to wait an hour, then we wait, no biggy. AND Kathy wont schedule me for an appointment on a date she knows the orthodontist isnt in or is on vacation. 
