braces at 17
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braces at 17
Well, braces would have to the most challenging thing to try get!
I've finished year 12 and I'm 17.
Back in 2010, it was really obvious I needed braces. My teeth were disgusting, canines were protruding out of my gums.
We went to a private ortho and damn, you need to be a millionaire to afford this stuff.
They reviewed my teeth, charged $100 and told me to come back a month later.
Came back, got moulds and xrays done, charged $300 and shuffled away again.
Came back, got seperators put on and DAMN these are annoyingly painful, charged $250, come back in a month.
Come back, get told I need to get an expander because my upper arch is tiny (in which it really was), charged $100, shuffled away.
Come back, no expander had arrived but I get told I need my two upper bicuspids extracted, charged $100, shuffled away.
Getting quite silly, hey?
Come back, get my expander put on. Charged.... $2000, shuffled away.
Come back after 3 months to get my expander ripped off, charged $200.
Then they're like "alright, braces. $6000."
my mum was like "nooo way no no no I can't do this anymore, I have no more money to do this".
I can not explain how upset I was. I was so hearbroken. After all this pain and money, everything was going to go to waste!
So I was determined to get braces, any way I could!!
Start of 2012, I pestered my mum so much, "call around, see if we can get braces for cheaper".
We ended up finding out about the Government dental system. I had to do so much to make this happen. This was not easy!
We went to the hospital dentist and got my teeth reviewed for "dental urgency", there's a catagory of 1,2,3 or 4 with one being 'not serious' and 4 being 'extremely urgent'. I was a 4, the worst case which NEEDS attention. If I was a 1,2 or 3, I instantly would have got rejected, even having a 4 was hard enough to get approved.
I had to get moulds taken of my teeth and have them sent to perth for reviewing to see if I'd get accepted or not.
We had to get into contact with so many people, it was so confusing and my mum kept being slack about it so I had to keep pushing her, and pushing her and if she was like "I can't do it now, remind me tomorrow", I'd be like "MUM, DO IT NOW, YOU WILL SAY THE SAME TOMORROW AND NOTHING WILL EVER GET DONE ABOUT MY TEETH". She listened
After talking to about, 30 different people and waiting 3 months, we finally get a letter saying we have been accepted and... placed onto a waiting list ): a waiting list... This waiting list was for 9 months. End of 9 months, we get told we have to wait another 6 months because they're behind in treating people and more people need to be seen before me. End of 6 months, get told we need to wait 4 months! Then I started having gum pain, my teeth were rotting because of how crowded they were and how hard they were to clean! We call them and they say "If you can give us the money for the treatment, in cash, we will do you straight away".
YESYESYES!
I save all my work money $1300 and we went to perth on the 26th of June.
(keep in mind it's a 4 hour trip one way, a 4 back again. 8 hours. I live in Geraldton)
Go there, not knowing what kind of braces I'll get.
Walk in the room, wait around for 20 minutes as the main guy was busy with another patient.
He comes over, reviews my teeth, says I need two upper bicuspids removed.
*Literally crap myself mentally, but hold it together because I've tried so hard to get this*
My mum says "were the braces going to get put on today?" and he says "Oh, we were reviewing the teeth today, why's that? where were you from?"
"geraldton".
He became my hero when he said "To save you the trip, we'll put braces on today!"
They needed an xray of one side of my face though, so we went and got that done and came back 2 hours later.
They procceded to clean my teeth and attach my braces, still not knowing what kind of braces they were. Literally, 5-6 people standing around watching my braces get put on, all students, I felt famous. hahaha. (This orthodontist is a school of orthodontristy, if you were wondering)
After 1 hours, they sit me up and I'm like "Woooooooooah, are you going to put elastics on my brackets or what?!" in my head. Turns out they're like Damon braces, but mine are called "Speed braces".
No pain after getting them put on but a student was telling me that "you'll feel some pain and discomfort", but it was just like "I FEEL NO PAIN RIGHT NOW! I'M INVINCIBLE!" I felt it about.. 2 hours later ): They gave me a little bag with dental things in it which are really helpful.
Instantly, the next morning, I could see CHANGE! It was incredible. my bottom row was almost completely straight by the 3rd day and they were up, down, overlapping, all over the place beforehand.
Eating was so difficult for me for the next 2-3 weeks because my teeth hurt and were so sentitive. I was also sick so that didn't help.
on the 10th of July, I had to get my bicuspids extracted. Oh the fun.
I got sedation tablets to calm me and I have a MASSIVLY HUGE needle phobia (it's like a life and death situation with me, I compare it to getting shot or stabbed, I don't want it!). I didn't get put under, I was awake.
These tablets did something good because I was laughing when they were pulling out my teeth. LAUGHING!
WHO the hell laughs when having these things done?! People crying during these things hahaha.
The pain that came a day later, oh my.
Lasted 2 weeks and had to end up getting panadine forte and antibiotics which helped sooo much.
All my teeth decided it was a good time to get moving so they did, and they helped hurt me.
They're healing nicely now and I have my second ortho appointment on the 14th this month!
No idea what's going to happen but it's worth it!
If there's any mothers or fathers out there that have kids with extremely bad teeth and don't have a good enough job to pay for braces, please enquire about the public dental system. It'll save you so so much. It all depends on your income and wether you're employed or not. My mother was unemployed at the time due to medical reasons.
My braces cost $1300, $650 for each row. No joke.
My total treatment cost is $4000, which includes my retainer.
Crazy yeah? But this had been the hardest things to get in my life. Having to pester and push my mother to call people, leaving me crying my eyes out at night because I'm thinking theres no hope to get braces, but I kept pushing on, I was determinded and was like 'there's the path, take it, you gotta clear the path or you can't move ahead".
And this has been the best thing in my life that I've forcefully made happen. A private ortho makes you pay, and pay, and pay. Work hard and you'll pay less.
I hope this has given some people hope if they're finding it really hard to get braces.
I'll keep you updated and post some pictures of my teeth on here, once I find out how to (:
I've finished year 12 and I'm 17.
Back in 2010, it was really obvious I needed braces. My teeth were disgusting, canines were protruding out of my gums.
We went to a private ortho and damn, you need to be a millionaire to afford this stuff.
They reviewed my teeth, charged $100 and told me to come back a month later.
Came back, got moulds and xrays done, charged $300 and shuffled away again.
Came back, got seperators put on and DAMN these are annoyingly painful, charged $250, come back in a month.
Come back, get told I need to get an expander because my upper arch is tiny (in which it really was), charged $100, shuffled away.
Come back, no expander had arrived but I get told I need my two upper bicuspids extracted, charged $100, shuffled away.
Getting quite silly, hey?
Come back, get my expander put on. Charged.... $2000, shuffled away.
Come back after 3 months to get my expander ripped off, charged $200.
Then they're like "alright, braces. $6000."
my mum was like "nooo way no no no I can't do this anymore, I have no more money to do this".
I can not explain how upset I was. I was so hearbroken. After all this pain and money, everything was going to go to waste!
So I was determined to get braces, any way I could!!
Start of 2012, I pestered my mum so much, "call around, see if we can get braces for cheaper".
We ended up finding out about the Government dental system. I had to do so much to make this happen. This was not easy!
We went to the hospital dentist and got my teeth reviewed for "dental urgency", there's a catagory of 1,2,3 or 4 with one being 'not serious' and 4 being 'extremely urgent'. I was a 4, the worst case which NEEDS attention. If I was a 1,2 or 3, I instantly would have got rejected, even having a 4 was hard enough to get approved.
I had to get moulds taken of my teeth and have them sent to perth for reviewing to see if I'd get accepted or not.
We had to get into contact with so many people, it was so confusing and my mum kept being slack about it so I had to keep pushing her, and pushing her and if she was like "I can't do it now, remind me tomorrow", I'd be like "MUM, DO IT NOW, YOU WILL SAY THE SAME TOMORROW AND NOTHING WILL EVER GET DONE ABOUT MY TEETH". She listened
After talking to about, 30 different people and waiting 3 months, we finally get a letter saying we have been accepted and... placed onto a waiting list ): a waiting list... This waiting list was for 9 months. End of 9 months, we get told we have to wait another 6 months because they're behind in treating people and more people need to be seen before me. End of 6 months, get told we need to wait 4 months! Then I started having gum pain, my teeth were rotting because of how crowded they were and how hard they were to clean! We call them and they say "If you can give us the money for the treatment, in cash, we will do you straight away".
YESYESYES!
I save all my work money $1300 and we went to perth on the 26th of June.
(keep in mind it's a 4 hour trip one way, a 4 back again. 8 hours. I live in Geraldton)
Go there, not knowing what kind of braces I'll get.
Walk in the room, wait around for 20 minutes as the main guy was busy with another patient.
He comes over, reviews my teeth, says I need two upper bicuspids removed.
*Literally crap myself mentally, but hold it together because I've tried so hard to get this*
My mum says "were the braces going to get put on today?" and he says "Oh, we were reviewing the teeth today, why's that? where were you from?"
"geraldton".
He became my hero when he said "To save you the trip, we'll put braces on today!"
They needed an xray of one side of my face though, so we went and got that done and came back 2 hours later.
They procceded to clean my teeth and attach my braces, still not knowing what kind of braces they were. Literally, 5-6 people standing around watching my braces get put on, all students, I felt famous. hahaha. (This orthodontist is a school of orthodontristy, if you were wondering)
After 1 hours, they sit me up and I'm like "Woooooooooah, are you going to put elastics on my brackets or what?!" in my head. Turns out they're like Damon braces, but mine are called "Speed braces".
No pain after getting them put on but a student was telling me that "you'll feel some pain and discomfort", but it was just like "I FEEL NO PAIN RIGHT NOW! I'M INVINCIBLE!" I felt it about.. 2 hours later ): They gave me a little bag with dental things in it which are really helpful.
Instantly, the next morning, I could see CHANGE! It was incredible. my bottom row was almost completely straight by the 3rd day and they were up, down, overlapping, all over the place beforehand.
Eating was so difficult for me for the next 2-3 weeks because my teeth hurt and were so sentitive. I was also sick so that didn't help.
on the 10th of July, I had to get my bicuspids extracted. Oh the fun.
I got sedation tablets to calm me and I have a MASSIVLY HUGE needle phobia (it's like a life and death situation with me, I compare it to getting shot or stabbed, I don't want it!). I didn't get put under, I was awake.
These tablets did something good because I was laughing when they were pulling out my teeth. LAUGHING!
WHO the hell laughs when having these things done?! People crying during these things hahaha.
The pain that came a day later, oh my.
Lasted 2 weeks and had to end up getting panadine forte and antibiotics which helped sooo much.
All my teeth decided it was a good time to get moving so they did, and they helped hurt me.
They're healing nicely now and I have my second ortho appointment on the 14th this month!
No idea what's going to happen but it's worth it!
If there's any mothers or fathers out there that have kids with extremely bad teeth and don't have a good enough job to pay for braces, please enquire about the public dental system. It'll save you so so much. It all depends on your income and wether you're employed or not. My mother was unemployed at the time due to medical reasons.
My braces cost $1300, $650 for each row. No joke.
My total treatment cost is $4000, which includes my retainer.
Crazy yeah? But this had been the hardest things to get in my life. Having to pester and push my mother to call people, leaving me crying my eyes out at night because I'm thinking theres no hope to get braces, but I kept pushing on, I was determinded and was like 'there's the path, take it, you gotta clear the path or you can't move ahead".
And this has been the best thing in my life that I've forcefully made happen. A private ortho makes you pay, and pay, and pay. Work hard and you'll pay less.
I hope this has given some people hope if they're finding it really hard to get braces.
I'll keep you updated and post some pictures of my teeth on here, once I find out how to (:
Re: braces at 17
I wish every middle school and high school student in the USA who gave their parent a hard time about braces could read your story. I hear teenagers whining about their teen invisalign, and middle schoolers crying about how their food gets stuck in their expander. They don't think how fortunate they are that at least they don't have to have fear that they will have to live with teeth crooked forever and worry about them rotting out.
For me, I was searching for expander information and I came upon a bunch of posts from breast cancer survivors dealing with some type of tissue expander to prepare them for prosthetic breasts. That sure made me feel like a whiny idiot...oh, poor me, my teeth feel funny and I have to cut or tear my food into tiny pieces and I am going to lisp for probably a year.
Except for a couple of posts I saw from people who went to someone who seemed like they weren't quite ethical or maybe had poor communication, and ended up with some nerve damage or teeth looking worse than when they started, most of us are so lucky that we have a path to get the improvement we are looking for at all, even when sometimes it frustrates us due to discomfort or taking longer or costing more than we want, or we have a little embarrassment over our appearance or speech temporarily.
For me, I was searching for expander information and I came upon a bunch of posts from breast cancer survivors dealing with some type of tissue expander to prepare them for prosthetic breasts. That sure made me feel like a whiny idiot...oh, poor me, my teeth feel funny and I have to cut or tear my food into tiny pieces and I am going to lisp for probably a year.
Except for a couple of posts I saw from people who went to someone who seemed like they weren't quite ethical or maybe had poor communication, and ended up with some nerve damage or teeth looking worse than when they started, most of us are so lucky that we have a path to get the improvement we are looking for at all, even when sometimes it frustrates us due to discomfort or taking longer or costing more than we want, or we have a little embarrassment over our appearance or speech temporarily.
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Re: braces at 17
Wow you have an incredible story! I'm sorry that you had to go through all of that but now you are braced and on your way to the smile you've always wanted!
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Re: braces at 17
I don't think of braces as ugly. I actually quite like them
There really is so many teenagers out there with rich parents. The kid sooks about braces and how "ugly" they'll look and how it'll ruin their life. They get the easy way in, they don't have to pay a cent, their parents are paying for all of it. Me? I had to pull $700 out of my pocket, and my parents split the rest and helped me.
Orthodontists use to argue the case of "why didn't you get her to a ortho quicker?"
It's not easy to pull $6000 out of the blue. It sucks, it's horrible, crying like hell every night because of the fear of living with crooked teeth for the rest of my life and damn, I got bullied for the way my teeth looked. I want to be able to smile in wedding photos and not have horrid shark teeth.
When I got my expander, I was so thrilled. I talked like an idiot, had a lisp for a month and food got all stuck up in it. It didn't make me upset, or angry, it made me happy because I was finally getting something done about my teeth. I'm so self conscious about them, but it's becoming less and less, and I never use to smile. I saw all my friends getting braces, and getting them off, and I'm just left there will ugly teeth while they have perfect teeth.
If getting two teeth ripped out is for a better smile, then I'm in! And I'm glad it's over and done with.
I'm still just so glad and happy that I finally have braces and didnt have to pay over $5000 for the total treatment. My whole family is thrilled! And I actually find it exciting, wondering what they'll do to my teeth next
There really is so many teenagers out there with rich parents. The kid sooks about braces and how "ugly" they'll look and how it'll ruin their life. They get the easy way in, they don't have to pay a cent, their parents are paying for all of it. Me? I had to pull $700 out of my pocket, and my parents split the rest and helped me.
Orthodontists use to argue the case of "why didn't you get her to a ortho quicker?"
It's not easy to pull $6000 out of the blue. It sucks, it's horrible, crying like hell every night because of the fear of living with crooked teeth for the rest of my life and damn, I got bullied for the way my teeth looked. I want to be able to smile in wedding photos and not have horrid shark teeth.
When I got my expander, I was so thrilled. I talked like an idiot, had a lisp for a month and food got all stuck up in it. It didn't make me upset, or angry, it made me happy because I was finally getting something done about my teeth. I'm so self conscious about them, but it's becoming less and less, and I never use to smile. I saw all my friends getting braces, and getting them off, and I'm just left there will ugly teeth while they have perfect teeth.
If getting two teeth ripped out is for a better smile, then I'm in! And I'm glad it's over and done with.
I'm still just so glad and happy that I finally have braces and didnt have to pay over $5000 for the total treatment. My whole family is thrilled! And I actually find it exciting, wondering what they'll do to my teeth next
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Re: braces at 17
Hi
I live in Perth, its quite exciting to meet someone from the same area as me getting orthodontic work done! Well done on keeping up pushing for braces!
I live in Perth, its quite exciting to meet someone from the same area as me getting orthodontic work done! Well done on keeping up pushing for braces!
16 months 1 week and 2 days in braces
12mm overjet and narrow jaws all fixed with braces and elastics.
http://www.archwired.com/phpbb2/viewtop ... =9&t=42441
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Re: braces at 17
I'm from geraldton, 4 hours from Perth
There's still the cost of paying for $150 worth of fuel there and back, and possible need for accommodation. We go to the Oral Health Centre. It's the big school of orthodontics where the students study and learn with real peoples teeth, learning how to put braces on and all that its a super awesome system.
And woah, damn, my mum called them and asked if we owed an upfront payment for next time. She said "you've paid in full, the rest is the discounted cost, you don't pay anymore!"
Oh my god. O_O
$1300 and I'm done. We don't have to pay the $3000 that's left. Damn this is insanely awesome!
There's still the cost of paying for $150 worth of fuel there and back, and possible need for accommodation. We go to the Oral Health Centre. It's the big school of orthodontics where the students study and learn with real peoples teeth, learning how to put braces on and all that its a super awesome system.
And woah, damn, my mum called them and asked if we owed an upfront payment for next time. She said "you've paid in full, the rest is the discounted cost, you don't pay anymore!"
Oh my god. O_O
$1300 and I'm done. We don't have to pay the $3000 that's left. Damn this is insanely awesome!
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Re: braces at 17
I've tried to post the URL code onto here for pictures of my teeeth but it's saying I'm not allowed? D:
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Re: braces at 17
(nothingness so I can post photos)
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- Posts: 17
- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:45 am
Re: braces at 17
(nothingness so I can post photos)
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- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:45 am
Re: braces at 17
Yay!
here's some pictures of my teeth (:
The night before I got braces. Wish I took more photos. I look at this and realise HOWWW crooked my bottom teeth really were.
I hope this isn't too gruesome! After getting my second bicuspids extracted. Hopefully this helps any other people out there that are about to get bicuspids removed because I was looked EVERYWHERE to find out how it looked and peoples stories.
After having braces on for 16 days! My bottom teeth straightened quite reasonably and made me super excited!
here's some pictures of my teeth (:
The night before I got braces. Wish I took more photos. I look at this and realise HOWWW crooked my bottom teeth really were.
I hope this isn't too gruesome! After getting my second bicuspids extracted. Hopefully this helps any other people out there that are about to get bicuspids removed because I was looked EVERYWHERE to find out how it looked and peoples stories.
After having braces on for 16 days! My bottom teeth straightened quite reasonably and made me super excited!
Re: braces at 17
Hey Krystina,
It is great that you took the plunge at braces. Your story is just so inspiring. How is it going so far with the braces? Keep us updated on how things are going!
It is great that you took the plunge at braces. Your story is just so inspiring. How is it going so far with the braces? Keep us updated on how things are going!
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Re: braces at 17
So far I've found it really hard to eat sandwiches. They end up making my teeth really sore so I can't have a full sandwich of lettuce, cucumber, tomato, cheese and ham. I can only have like, lettuce, cucumber and ham so I can actually chew it.
I think braces have actually given me benefits! I havnt drank anything other than water, milk and OJ since I got them which is quite incredible because I'm realising how disgusting fizzy drinks are becoming. I havnt chewed any lollies or ice, and I've only eaten chocolate. (the cravings! I'm a woman!)
I'm also finding myself brushing my teeth for Atleast 10 minutes full. It use to be a 10 second thing for me once a day, but now it's three times a day! I've made a wonderful habit of flossing twice a day, which I never use to do and my gums use to bleed so badly. But now floss goes smoothly between my teeth without getting caught on sharp things between my teeth. My breath has become nicer since I got braces, so no more bad breath! I guess I've realised how precious teeth really are, and if you don't look after them, they're going to get ripped out and replaced with falsies!
Blisters havnt really been a problem for me, although my top wire started moving out and stabbed into my cheek. Got it clipped by my old private ortho here and they pulled out the wire from the other side! So I went home and fixed it myself.
I also have a boyfriend who I've been with for two years. Hrs supporting my through this which is lovely as for kissing with braces, you just gotta be gentle!
After a month, you can't even notice you have braces. It doesn't feel like they're there
I think braces have actually given me benefits! I havnt drank anything other than water, milk and OJ since I got them which is quite incredible because I'm realising how disgusting fizzy drinks are becoming. I havnt chewed any lollies or ice, and I've only eaten chocolate. (the cravings! I'm a woman!)
I'm also finding myself brushing my teeth for Atleast 10 minutes full. It use to be a 10 second thing for me once a day, but now it's three times a day! I've made a wonderful habit of flossing twice a day, which I never use to do and my gums use to bleed so badly. But now floss goes smoothly between my teeth without getting caught on sharp things between my teeth. My breath has become nicer since I got braces, so no more bad breath! I guess I've realised how precious teeth really are, and if you don't look after them, they're going to get ripped out and replaced with falsies!
Blisters havnt really been a problem for me, although my top wire started moving out and stabbed into my cheek. Got it clipped by my old private ortho here and they pulled out the wire from the other side! So I went home and fixed it myself.
I also have a boyfriend who I've been with for two years. Hrs supporting my through this which is lovely as for kissing with braces, you just gotta be gentle!
After a month, you can't even notice you have braces. It doesn't feel like they're there
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- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:45 am
Re: braces at 17
hello!
I had my first wire change today. They changed both of my wires to a thicker size. Opening the "doors" on my braces kinda hurt. I have sentitive teeth so I don't know if that contributed to the pain or not. I should toughen up soon
When they finished changing my wires, the lady clamped this thing down on my wire, so now I have this funny silver looking bead between my two front teeth which can't move. They didnt tell me what it's for at all so if someone could tell me what it might be - muchly appreciated
My teeth felt like glue after getting the wires changed. They just felt hell weird.. And loose. They're getting better, my molars are just a bit sore.
To be honest, I was expecting more! I was expecting like, springs, elastics, brackets and for something to be connected to my two lateral incisors but nope.. They said the thicker will make room for my laterals to move forward. What? How even is that going to work? :/
How long was it till you guys got elastics?
I had my first wire change today. They changed both of my wires to a thicker size. Opening the "doors" on my braces kinda hurt. I have sentitive teeth so I don't know if that contributed to the pain or not. I should toughen up soon
When they finished changing my wires, the lady clamped this thing down on my wire, so now I have this funny silver looking bead between my two front teeth which can't move. They didnt tell me what it's for at all so if someone could tell me what it might be - muchly appreciated
My teeth felt like glue after getting the wires changed. They just felt hell weird.. And loose. They're getting better, my molars are just a bit sore.
To be honest, I was expecting more! I was expecting like, springs, elastics, brackets and for something to be connected to my two lateral incisors but nope.. They said the thicker will make room for my laterals to move forward. What? How even is that going to work? :/
How long was it till you guys got elastics?
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Re: braces at 17
The funny bead thing is so that the wire doesn't move too far to the left or right. It should help prevent the wires from sticking out at the back so they don't annoy you. It may also control the direction of the movement to help if your laterals arn't in the right place but I don't really know. I only have one spring and that is for a tooth that was basically diagonal in my mouth and half the height of the other teeth. Most things can be fixed with just braces no matter how bad they seem to us! saying that I did get elastics at 4 weeks but thats because my bite is terrible. I have/had a 11.5mm overjet so need plenty of time to bring that in as much as possible. I know when my sister got braces she had elastics for the last 6 months only, just depends how good your bite is to start with!
16 months 1 week and 2 days in braces
12mm overjet and narrow jaws all fixed with braces and elastics.
http://www.archwired.com/phpbb2/viewtop ... =9&t=42441
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Re: braces at 17
Well, 3 corners of my mouth are fully torn up :s
The ortho tried cutting it but she said she would be cutting the tube. It's still 1-2mm of wore sticking out. I can't cut it myself. I see the ortho in 6 weeks and have to drive 5 hours one way. I don't understand why she couldn't pull the wire out a bit on one side, cut it, then slide it back, do the same on the other side and then nothing will be poking!
My over bite isn't that bad, it's very tiny. I need to have something called a "compensated bite" because of my premolar extraction on the top. How do they pull top molars forwards? I thought elastics help pull teeth back? I'm confused D:
I'll try post a before and after picture of my braces from when I got them and from my first adjustment. You'll see how far my laterals have called behind. It's crazy...
The ortho tried cutting it but she said she would be cutting the tube. It's still 1-2mm of wore sticking out. I can't cut it myself. I see the ortho in 6 weeks and have to drive 5 hours one way. I don't understand why she couldn't pull the wire out a bit on one side, cut it, then slide it back, do the same on the other side and then nothing will be poking!
My over bite isn't that bad, it's very tiny. I need to have something called a "compensated bite" because of my premolar extraction on the top. How do they pull top molars forwards? I thought elastics help pull teeth back? I'm confused D:
I'll try post a before and after picture of my braces from when I got them and from my first adjustment. You'll see how far my laterals have called behind. It's crazy...