Extraction Orthodontic Nightmare

[chichi]

I'm sorry you and your daughter have gone through such troubles with extractions, but I feel this should be more of a lesson learned than an anti-extractions thread. What I have learned here is that everyone should go for several consultations, especially when more "extreme" measures are recommended. Extractions are sometimes necessary. I know several people who have had extractions in their early teens, whose mouths and faces are perfectly fine. They all have healthy teeth and no long face/sunken look about them. This is because their orthodontists used extractions appropriately. In your daughter's case, it seems the problem is her original orthodontist, not the fact that extractions are used as an option in orthodontic treatments.

[sirwired]

I have had all of my wisdom teeth extracted and did not notice any facial changes but I have seen people claim in my research that their faces collapsed after wisdom teeth extraction as well. Do some research on the subject and get some more opinions. Mine were coming in and starting to move my other teeth after already having braces. Ended up in braces again. According to Professor John Mew, if biobloc orthotropics is started at an early enough age, you should have room for all 32 teeth. Very few registered in Biobloc though in the country. Also google Dr. William Hang, who is considered a master in treating with Biobloc. He has several videos explaining all of the damage that extractions and retraction cause including poor facial esthetics, headaches, restricted airways, TMD and OSA. The key is seeking the opinion of at least 3 reputable orthodontists ( In my opinion) Tell them about your concerns. When I took my daughter in for braces I didn't know enough to even ask an intelligent question. I trusted the orthodontist. I don't even know why I went to him in the first place. I knew he was a major jerk. Their are only two orthodontists in the town I live in and the other one is his wife. Turns out she had a much bigger practice then he did, little did I know until after the damage was done. She does palatal expansion. I could have taken her to our dentist who also does braces but didn't realize how good she was at the time. I thought I was doing the right thing by taking her to an orthodontist, who turned out to be no more than a teeth straightening technician at the cost of children's faces and health. AKA "Assembly line orthodontics" Research traditional vs functional orthodontics. There's a big difference!

I've seen the orthotropics thing mentioned on here before, and I'll repeat the same thing I said then:
"But if you want my opinion, as a layman, I'm always suspicious of something marketed as "Something (Insert Name of Professional or Organization) Doesn't Want You To Know", which orthotropics is. It talks as if orthodontists are in some kind of unethical cabal to prevent orthotropics from being presented to the wider world. Like most such conspiracy theories, it makes no sense whatsoever. What possible motivation would an orthodontist (or other medical professional) have for not using every capability at their disposal in order to heal the maximum number of patients? I'm not saying doctors/dentists are always right, but if there are reasons new effective treatments take a while to gain traction, fanciful conspiracies aren't on the list."

Pictures of that BioBloc thing don't look much different from the palatal expander I had 30 years ago, and which I'm fairly sure most orthodontists use as appropriate. FWIW, the wikipedia article (which was copied from a webpage or journal article selling the thing) talks about it being designed to be used in concert with extractions...

There is no difference between "traditional" vs. "functional" orthodontics outside of web pages by orthodontists calling themselves one. All orthodontists are trained to consider both function and aesthetics. Some of them are better than others, yes, but "functional orthodontics" is not a separate discipline and it requires no additional training, degrees, or experience for an orthodontist to label themselves one.

As a side note I'd personally never take my teeth to a general dentist who happens to do orthodontics. Their school-based training usually consists of a single course in ortho, and they don't have to actually do any ortho work to get their dental license. Yes, it is legal for a general dentist to do orthodontics (and it's not unheard of for a dentist to be decent at it), just like it's legal for my family doc to perform open-heart surgery, but that's not generally a very good idea. A board-certified orthodontist goes through several additional years of training and supervised treatment, and must successfully treat several patients before receiving their board certification. That's not a guarantee of success or quality, of course, but it's a bit more than a certificate of completion from some continuing-ed courses taught in a hotel ballroom by an ortho supplier.

[fosterp]

I'm pretty sure that momonamission is just a cleverly disguised spammer.

Every once and a while this board gets spammed with people using overly exaggerated stories about how extractions "ruined their life" and then go on to talk about how functional orthodontics is the "new age" of dentistry. Then you usually see some mention of Dr. so and so, etc.

It's just advertising for this niche of dentistry that gets its business by playing on the fears of consumers.

[chichi]

I'm pretty sure that momonamission is just a cleverly disguised spammer.

Every once and a while this board gets spammed with people using overly exaggerated stories about how extractions "ruined their life" and then go on to talk about how functional orthodontics is the "new age" of dentistry. Then you usually see some mention of Dr. so and so, etc.

It's just advertising for this niche of dentistry that gets its business by playing on the fears of consumers.

Honestly, I hope she is a spammer, because I feel terrible for her daughter. It can't be easy having a mother telling you how messed up your face is when it's hard enough just being a 13 year old girl...

[fosterp]

Honestly, I hope she is a spammer, because I feel terrible for her daughter. It can't be easy having a mother telling you how messed up your face is when it's hard enough just being a 13 year old girl...

First of all, I don't tell my now 16 year old daughter how messed up her face is. I talk to her as little as possible about the esthetics, and focus more and the health issues because there are plenty. There has been a workup on her recently and she now has an open bite on her top and bottom palate. Her mouth is concave, her jaw has grown crooked because that was how he placed her teeth. He had to shift them around quite a bit once her face was pushed back to get them to align correctly. Because of his nightmare treatment, her face has grown vertically and narrow to match her new much smaller mouth. Her eyes are closer together and the bridge of her nose is narrower. She was once very athletic and active and she dropped out of her sports within one year because she was having trouble breathing (as she was well into retraction) and hasn't exercised since. She is very low energy. Imagine having this happen to your child!! I can't even get through my days without medication. I feel gut wrenching sadness everyday. I have taken her to several functional orthodontists now and they all say she needs jaw surgery to correct her malocclusions, including maxillary impaction. The only reason I mentioned Dr. Hang is so that people could look on his website and be educated about what not to do. I wish to god that I was more knowledgeable instead of letting this nightmare happen to my child. No one can judge me unless they are in a similar situation. I wouldn't wish this devastation on anyone!

If the situation is as bad as you are describing it to be (which I don't believe it is) then you should be consulting with a lawyer in contemplation of a malpractice suit, which would essentially finance the procedures that the other doctors are claiming are necessary to correct your daughters issues.

It sounds to me that either 1) you are simply advertising for functional orthodontists or 2) the problem here wasn't the application of extraction orthodontics, but rather the malpractice of your specific orthodontist who made a number of screw ups in your daughters treatments. Either way, your story is not helpful for other users who might be contemplating the choice between extraction and non-extraction treatments with competent practitioners.

[Positron646]

Extractions are very bad as they often damage the face, and create breathing problems.

For my case in France, 29 orthodontists over 25 years said I have to pull out 4 of my bicuspid teeth.
It was impossible to properly set my teeths without 4 extractions they all said.
I never consents such a massacre.
As my dental problems goes more serious for my molars last years, I searched once again an orthodontist.
This time the last one accepts to do the treatment without extraction !
I started at 49 y/old the treatement, one year and half ago .
She started to expand my upper and lower arches with a TPA on top and with a mandibular expander on bottom, not a big deal for me with this appliances.
One year later my top arch expanded for 8 mm (0.32 inch) and the bottom for 10 mm (0.4 inch).
At this time all my teeth could get back on the arches.
Since 7 months I have lingual braces on top & bottom to complete the job.
I'm 50 yo at this time and all my teeth are now on the arches, no one is missing !
Even with the lingual braces my tongue has more room than before and it's ... cozy.
There's still things to do with my teeth, but my smile is now wide, awsome.

Extractions would have been a nightmare for my face, the room for my tongue and my breathing.

Remember, all other said it was impossible.
Perhaps this 30th Orthodontist didn't know that it was impossible to do, so she did it.
For her, I write Orthodontist with a big O.

Don't let extract your teeth, some Orthodontist can do the job, this is my message.

[kevin1234]

To be honest this thread does seem kind of fake to me, if this actually happened to you and your daughters then I am really sorry for you and hope things will get better

[Matilda]

If the situation is as bad as you are describing it to be (which I don't believe it is) then you should be consulting with a lawyer in contemplation of a malpractice suit, which would essentially finance the procedures that the other doctors are claiming are necessary to correct your daughters issues.

It sounds to me that either 1) you are simply advertising for functional orthodontists or 2) the problem here wasn't the application of extraction orthodontics, but rather the malpractice of your specific orthodontist who made a number of screw ups in your daughters treatments. Either way, your story is not helpful for other users who might be contemplating the choice between extraction and non-extraction treatments with competent practitioners.

This. Thanks, fosterp.

[angryhead]

I believe momonamission, and I don't think it's spamming for a specific ortho as she has continuously inquired about orthos who specialize in undoing extractions (having even asked me). She's not promoting a specific doctor. She probably mentioned Hang just because he always comes up in google results for this kind of thing. If she was actually a spammer she'd pretend her daughter had already received treatment from him, and would be talking about what a great job he did.

She is clearly here looking for help, and instead of being supportive some of you are being quite rude and dismissive. There truly can be serious consequences to extractions. I've experienced them for myself, and if you look through my post history you can find the photos from my previous treatment that prove it. Don't undermine someone else's experience, especially when you know very little about the matter and have not lived through it yourself.

PS. And yes, the change can really be that dramatic, to where it can cause this kind of anguish. Just look at the difference between these identical twins from a classic case (in which the one on the left had bicuspid extractions and the one on the right did not).



I personally still find the one on the left to be pretty, but there is an undeniable change in the shape of her face and her smile, which in the wrong person can be undesirable... such as myself and momonamission's daughter.

[djspeece]

I don't have anything to add to this conversation, other than my deep sympathy for your daughter's situation. I see that you feel horrible over the outcome, and as a parent myself I can understand the guilt. I might suggest that one or both of you seek therapy to work through some of these sequelae, and perhaps learn to enjoy the simple things in life once again. I send my best wishes for an eventual happy outcome.

[Mrs v]

Hi, so sorry to hear what you're going through and really hope you get the correct support. I can't believe people thought you'd made the story up, too many finer details for that to be the case.

I know how it feels to go through depression but when it's about your child it must feel a whole lot worse for you. You can't beat yourself up about what has been but think what it will take for the situation to be resolved. How does she look to new people who didn't know her before?

I suggest you get some help from a counsellor, seek any legal advice and get a workable plan in place and something to help you focus on the positive/ end result. We want to hear a good ending to this story and hopefully you have the support from many on here whilst you go through this journey.

Keep us updated.

[Positron646]

Hello momonamission

Don’t be absolutely depressed.

For adults were this massacre occurred, the teeths can be put back to there original position because the base bone is still present at this place. It’s not so difficult as you think, many orthodontist in the US can do this. I know one in Paris who can do this too.
They widen the the arches, push the front teeth forward and reopen the extractions holes. At the end implants take the place of the poor grabbed bicuspids.
The problem is that orthodontist specialists do not accept that they can do big mistakes. An orthodontic treatment is like a tomb, no one wants to reopen it. The ones who accept to do this request lot of money.

The big problem is for childs who had teeth extraction. Because of the extractions the base bone has not grown and the face bones are too small to restore there face. Today the solution comes with the orthognatic surgery. Upper and lower whole teeth with there bone can be surgericaly moved forward. The dentition is still narrow but the face profile is restored. In some reasonable limit the dentition can be surgicaly widen or by orthodontie.
It’s an eavy surgery and a big treatment, but there’s a solution. From what I know it’s the only solution to overcome this massacre.

Sincerely.

[sirwired]

FWIW, my parents sent me through orthodontics as a youth, I had no extractions, had my jaw expanded, and yet my face grew long and crooked afterwards nonetheless. As in, on x-rays, my chin cants comically to the right, and my skull is long and narrow. It may not be the fault of the orthodontics.

I'm just now finishing up ortho round #2 + surgery to fix things up. My best guess as to what caused the whole problem is my "paper-thin" bone; it just wasn't strong enough to grow naturally into a full face. (My surgeon said I had the thinnest bone he'd seen in 5 or 6 years, and he does about 300 jaw surgeries a year.)

[hukillmommy]

I feel for you, I really do. But what's done is done now. You can't go back and change things, so why are you spending so much time focusing on what could have been?

You may be harming your daughter still, by being so depressed and focused on this mistake that you are missing out on the good things in life right now! Your daughter needs you to be there for her in the right mindset as she goes through normal teenage stuff.

When my son was a year old, I was taking him out for a walk when I forgot his juice. I walked 5feet back to the kitchen to get the drink when he turned around in his stroller and it flipped over, cutting a jagged edge on the corner of his eye. It required a lot of stitches because the cut went to the bone. He is 19 now, still with a jagged scar on his face but it is part of who he is now! Neither he nor I could change it if we could, and at this point I don't think I would change it because it makes up who he is. i beat myself up over it when it first happened, but i quickly realized that was only taking up space in my head because there was nothing i could do about it.

For your daughter, what's done is done. Let her know what a beautiful girl she is now and not what she could have been. Focus on the now!!!!!! Good luck to you and yours.

[Featheryy1221]

When my sister was 13, she got four teeth extracted about 20 years ago from my orthodontist (I ended up choosing the ortho she went to). In her case it worked out great. Her face is still proportionate and her smile turned out amazing. There was no harm done. Yes, she was young to get that done, but that was the practice then. Even now extractions can be deemed necessary in patients (I don't know about younger patients, but I know people in their teens and up have been told they have to get them). To write off extractions and say that they're terrible things and that people shouldn't get them is silly. Everyone's case is different and not everyone's case would work well without extractions.

I am sorry that you're dealing with this though. And I wish you the best of luck.